Talking w/ Dealers/Pitbosses

Good evening everyone :)

In the last few months I went to Atlantic City and Vegas to learn about the gambling industry. As some of you have seen, I run a website to help dealers learn how to play and deal dozens of games and side bets according to various pay tables. Sometimes I would talk to the dealers and pitbosses about what games are popular versus unpopular, and I would get information on various rare sidebets such as Pharoah's Roulette, and I would answer their questions about counting, player collusion, casino math, and recommend they visit the Wizard of Odds website.

Anyways, lots of dealers wanted to check out my website and some pitbosses were interested, but unfortunately when they asked for a business card with my website on it, I did not have one (I was advised that business cards are old-fashioned). I would like to help as many dealers as I can, but I am worried that I will get in trouble for giving them my business card. I assume that casinos want minimal communication between workers and customers at casinos for fear of collusion, and I am not trying to get banned from anywhere in Atlantic City when I go next time. But what do you think, would it be appropriate to give a card with a link to my dealer training website to casino dealers? Or only to pitbosses? Or neither?

Additionally, if anyone in the forum could be interested in going to casinos with me some day in November in Atlantic City, let me know (warning: I am *mostly* there for educational purposes and not to gamble my life savings but I like to play blackjack variants).

$25 isn't much, and it should get you a few hundred cards printed up.

A name, a URL, and maybe a QR code so people don't have to type in the website address...

Business cards may be old fashioned, but most dealers won't have an option to bump phones with you while they're working a table.

Quote: Dieter

$25 isn't much, and it should get you a few hundred cards printed up.

A name, a URL, and maybe a QR code so people don't have to type in the website address...

Business cards may be old fashioned, but most dealers won't have an option to bump phones with you while they're working a table.
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They may be old fashioned, but there's no school like the old school. The fact that you keep getting asked for one, tells you that old fashioned doesn't mean out of fashion

Where would a dealer put a business card? Shoving things into pockets is a major red flag at that job. The tip box might be acceptable.

Casino employees in AC tend to congregate at certain adult watering holes after their shift. Many do so in their work uniforms. If you wish to meet them, that's the way to go.

The problem with handing out cards in a casino is not so much collusion but that someone else is doing business in their place of business. It's a relative of "suitcasing" at trade shows, where you walk around without paying for an exhibit promoting your product or service with whatever is in your briefcase. They don't like that. Even if you were to walk around handing cards to other players it would draw attention.

Blackjack variants: last time I was there (over a year ago) the only BJ variant was Spanish 21. It's been said I know a little bit about that game. The Wizard's basic strategy is excellent for the game and you will be playing with a very low house edge if you learn it, probably the lowest available in the city outside of a high limit room and a S17 game with surrender and RSA. But be aware that can be a rough crowd, and I have a lot of stories that start with "I was playing Spanish 21 at 3AM in Atlantic City..."

Quote: KevinAA

Where would a dealer put a business card? Shoving things into pockets is a major red flag at that job. The tip box might be acceptable.
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I think protocol will be to call the floor, and the floor will get it to the dealer's locker or hand it back to them on their way to break.

Since you want to get the floor too, have a dozen cards ready.

I have given out plenty of business cards while standing at the craps table. Merely start a conversation and once the conversation turns towards what I’m doing, I pull out a card and push it towards them or put it on the rail. Sure, they don’t have pockets, but generally, they’ll take a glance at it, then just leave it on the rail until the supervisor comes by. Then the supervisor will put it on the podium inside the pit where they can grab it when they go on break.

Quote: Dieter

… and maybe a QR code …
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Not ‘maybe’.

A QR code on cards is a must these days.

They’re free to use and free to generate.

Optionally, use a service like TinyUrl.com (also free) to get a small url so the QR code will be small.

P.S. For about 20 years I’ve used and recommended https://www.overnightprints.com/

If you have one of my cards, you have a sample of their quality.

They’re damn good and cheap. Except they aren’t overnight - at least not at the damn cheap prices.

I made some business cards that I’ll pick up tomorrow


I hope I can go to AC this weekend
Thanks for the advice everyone :)

That is a jam-packed business card. I've always felt a card should be very simple and elegant.

Okay to be honest you might be right about there being too much text on the business card but i felt like some context is necessary in case a pitboss was suspecting me of doing something malicious.

I wonder if there will be more chances to talk with casino staff if I go on a weekend (more dealers present) or on a weekday (less players present)

I think you'll get to chat more on a weekday or other off-peak time.

It's not a traditional business card; it's a slapper for your website in business card size.

Quote: harris

Okay to be honest you might be right about there being too much text on the business card but i felt like some context is necessary in case a pitboss was suspecting me of doing something malicious.

I wonder if there will be more chances to talk with casino staff if I go on a weekend (more dealers present) or on a weekday (less players present)
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On slow times either way. I was once playing and the pit boss started chatting with me. It was before noon on a Saturday. I forget what I said but I said something that showed I had more aptitude than an everyday player and he seemed to want to have an intelligent conversation about the business.

This is like any kind of prospecting, go when they are slower, they may want to talk just because they are bored.

This brings up an interesting question - what day of the week are casinos the emptiest? Maybe Tuesday or Wednesday?

Additionally, I wanted to know if casinos would find me suspicious for writing down side bet payments, or writing down pay tables for video poker varieties? My motivation is that for maximum usefulness to dealers, I want my website to have all of the pay tables found in casinos. Also I am adding video poker to my website very very soon and I want to know what pay tables and varieties are being put on the new machines. I assume that someone in here has gone to a casino for "mathematical research" so I thought this would be a good place to ask for tips.

I will try to do some gambling in between talking and writing things down so I hope that the casinos don't feel like I am wasting their time :D

Quote: harris

This brings up an interesting question - what day of the week are casinos the emptiest? Maybe Tuesday or Wednesday?

Additionally, I wanted to know if casinos would find me suspicious for writing down side bet payments, or writing down pay tables for video poker varieties? My motivation is that for maximum usefulness to dealers, I want my website to have all of the pay tables found in casinos. Also I am adding video poker to my website very very soon and I want to know what pay tables and varieties are being put on the new machines. I assume that someone in here has gone to a casino for "mathematical research" so I thought this would be a good place to ask for tips.

I will try to do some gambling in between talking and writing things down so I hope that the casinos don't feel like I am wasting their time :D
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The best time to talk to dealers/floor people might be a good question to ask Heather during the Wizard Livestream, when and if it starts up again. Just a thought.

I went on a Wednesday, I don't think that there were a lot of free dealers in particular, except for a couple dealers waiting around Spanish 21. However, I realized the high limit generally have a higher proportion of free dealers, probably because these tables are more profitable so it doesn't matter as much if they're standing around.

Who do you want to talk to? Experienced workers will most likely be assigned to the busiest shifts, so if you opt for slower shifts, you'll likely encounter many new dealers who won't be of much use. I think you want to get them in social settings, not at work.