Man Can't Cash In Chips Bought At Auction
April 12th, 2025 at 6:15:24 AM
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April 12th, 2025 at 7:37:06 AM
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Quote: GenoDRPhhttps://nypost.com/2025/04/08/us-news/man-loses-legal-bid-to-cash-in-59500-in-chips-from-now-defunct-new-jersey-casino/
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That was interesting. I didn't see anything that made me think that they could prove they were stolen.
You can't know everything, but you can know anything.
April 12th, 2025 at 11:57:46 AM
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Quote: DRichQuote: GenoDRPhhttps://nypost.com/2025/04/08/us-news/man-loses-legal-bid-to-cash-in-59500-in-chips-from-now-defunct-new-jersey-casino/
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That was interesting. I didn't see anything that made me think that they could prove they were stolen.
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I thought the same thing… It seems that he might have a case against the bank, as prior owner, and/or the auction house. It may depend on the wording of the lot on which he bid.
It’s a dog eat dog world.
…Or maybe it’s the other way around!
April 12th, 2025 at 12:15:39 PM
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I wasn't aware chips from closed casinos retained any value. Nor that there is a commission that handles these things.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
April 12th, 2025 at 12:32:02 PM
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Quote: billryanI wasn't aware chips from closed casinos retained any value. Nor that there is a commission that handles these things.
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I wasn't aware anybody would think they could redeem chips from a casino that closed over 30 years ago.
May the cards fall in your favor.
April 12th, 2025 at 1:50:49 PM
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The article gave me the impression that there is a State Authority charged with cashing chips that weren't pilfered.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
April 12th, 2025 at 4:57:34 PM
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Quote: billryanThe article gave me the impression that there is a State Authority charged with cashing chips that weren't pilfered.
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Sure. How long do people expect the chips to be honored?
Isn't the usual window for redeeming retired chips stated in months?
The Playboy Club closed in 1984.
The property rebranded (new ownership?) as the Atlantis Hotel & Casino, which then closed in 1989.
The property became the Trump Regency, which closed in 1999.
Now it's 20+ years later, and someone wants to redeem chips that weren't playable 15 years prior to that?
Hopefully the guy trying to cash the chips can find buyers on the collectors market.
May the cards fall in your favor.
April 12th, 2025 at 5:19:09 PM
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Quote: Dieter
Hopefully the guy trying to cash the chips can find buyers on the collectors market.
He won't get anywhere near the $50k face value.
You can't know everything, but you can know anything.
April 12th, 2025 at 5:44:06 PM
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Quote: DRichQuote: Dieter
Hopefully the guy trying to cash the chips can find buyers on the collectors market.
He won't get anywhere near the $50k face value.
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It sounds like he'd get even less from the New Jersey Unclaimed Property office.
May the cards fall in your favor.
April 12th, 2025 at 6:54:22 PM
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Those chips are near worthless to a collector.
I doubt he could even sell more than a few to any single collector for much of anything. If anything.
Anywhere near face value is a gross understatement.
I doubt he could even sell more than a few to any single collector for much of anything. If anything.
Anywhere near face value is a gross understatement.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
April 13th, 2025 at 12:23:36 AM
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Quote: Dieter
Isn't the usual window for redeeming retired chips stated in months?
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From the "Today I found out" file...
Apparently, Nevada rules require a 120 day notice of discontinuation. New Jersey rules do not expire the chips of a defunct casino, the casino must do an audit and somehow provide for redemption, generally by placing funds with the casino control commission.
Apparently the Playboy club posted $450,000 to redeem outstanding chips, and the CCC has paid out about $12,000 of that.
About 9 years ago, a large cache of uncancelled chips was found buried at the former address of the company (Green Duck) that was supposed to have destroyed the chips, the CCC generally stopped redeeming them, and collectible value fell.
May the cards fall in your favor.
April 13th, 2025 at 5:15:43 AM
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Quote: MDawgThose chips are near worthless to a collector.
I doubt he could even sell more than a few to any single collector for much of anything. If anything.
Anywhere near face value is a gross understatement.
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Similar chips sell on Ebay, though not often.
$500 goes for $100.
$100 goes for $30
smaller ones go for $10-20
60000/400 is $150/chip face value, so he has some of the larger value ones.
each transaction has a $0.40 fee plus an fvf of 12.24% or 11.43% with store (subscription service). shipping costs a bundle now, but supplies are free with priority.
assuming $40/chip sale price, the profit before item cost will be like $11,000. less obviously if the store option is paid until they are all sold, which will be a forever from now.
April 13th, 2025 at 5:30:30 AM
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Quote: DieterQuote: Dieter
Isn't the usual window for redeeming retired chips stated in months?
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From the "Today I found out" file...
Apparently, Nevada rules require a 120 day notice of discontinuation. New Jersey rules do not expire the chips of a defunct casino, the casino must do an audit and somehow provide for redemption, generally by placing funds with the casino control commission.
Apparently the Playboy club posted $450,000 to redeem outstanding chips, and the CCC has paid out about $12,000 of that.
About 9 years ago, a large cache of uncancelled chips was found buried at the former address of the company (Green Duck) that was supposed to have destroyed the chips, the CCC generally stopped redeeming them, and collectible value fell.
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Did not know any of this. I have about $500 in chips from the Taj that I just assumed were worthless. Whether I actually go about figuring out how to cash them and go through the annoyance of it, is a different story.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
April 13th, 2025 at 7:50:33 AM
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I have several dozen old AC chips I assumed were worthless. I'll be making some calls on Monday.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
April 13th, 2025 at 9:48:07 AM
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They are near worthless unless there is some hope of redemption.
Whatever of these chips that might have sold in the past on eBay or otherwise were bought by those hoping to redeem.
Whatever of these chips that might have sold in the past on eBay or otherwise were bought by those hoping to redeem.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
April 13th, 2025 at 9:56:48 AM
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Quote: MDawgThey are near worthless unless there is some hope of redemption.
Whatever of these chips that might have sold in the past on eBay or otherwise were bought by those hoping to redeem.
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There is a collectors' market for obsolete chips, especially limited edition ones. Last year, I picked up a bunch of Vegas chips that included several limited edition Rod Stewart $5 chips. They ended up selling for almost double face value, where most $5 chips barely bring a buck or two
I'll put a nice assortment of $1-$25 chips in a Shadow Box with some other giveaways. They sell well enough, but rarely for more than $50, and then I have to pay consignment fees.
Cher has several chips that sell well, especially from her multiple retirement tours.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
April 13th, 2025 at 11:33:12 AM
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Obviously. You didn’t need to write so many words to convey what I and probably every else here already know.
But these particular chips have no collector’s value to speak of that casino didn’t even close that long ago.
Like trying to sell Mirage chips. Just too many out there. Maybe someday.
TI by the way must have had some connection to Mirage extending beyond when Ruffin bought it because they’ve had a sign up at their cage advising that the redemption period for Mirage chips at their cage has passed.
But these particular chips have no collector’s value to speak of that casino didn’t even close that long ago.
Like trying to sell Mirage chips. Just too many out there. Maybe someday.
TI by the way must have had some connection to Mirage extending beyond when Ruffin bought it because they’ve had a sign up at their cage advising that the redemption period for Mirage chips at their cage has passed.
Last edited by: MDawg on Apr 13, 2025
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
April 13th, 2025 at 1:44:58 PM
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Quote: DieterQuote: billryanThe article gave me the impression that there is a State Authority charged with cashing chips that weren't pilfered.
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Sure. How long do people expect the chips to be honored?
Isn't the usual window for redeeming retired chips stated in months?
The Playboy Club closed in 1984.
The property rebranded (new ownership?) as the Atlantis Hotel & Casino, which then closed in 1989.
The property became the Trump Regency, which closed in 1999.
Now it's 20+ years later, and someone wants to redeem chips that weren't playable 15 years prior to that?
Hopefully the guy trying to cash the chips can find buyers on the collectors market.
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Wouldn’t he be guilty of selling stolen property? Of course, that alone could make them desirable to some collectors…
It’s a dog eat dog world.
…Or maybe it’s the other way around!
April 13th, 2025 at 1:52:22 PM
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Yoiu can buy all mine for 20% over face value.Quote: billryanQuote: MDawgThey are near worthless unless there is some hope of redemption.
Whatever of these chips that might have sold in the past on eBay or otherwise were bought by those hoping to redeem.
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There is a collectors' market for obsolete chips, especially limited edition ones. Last year, I picked up a bunch of Vegas chips that included several limited edition Rod Stewart $5 chips. They ended up selling for almost double face value, where most $5 chips barely bring a buck or two
I'll put a nice assortment of $1-$25 chips in a Shadow Box with some other giveaways. They sell well enough, but rarely for more than $50, and then I have to pay consignment fees.
Cher has several chips that sell well, especially from her multiple retirement tours.
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many are still cashable (New Orleans $5-25 alligator chips), but unique/rare. Some $5 chips I have, I seen go for $50 on ebay. I just don't want to take the time to post and ship them.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
April 13th, 2025 at 2:02:37 PM
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Anything under a $50 sale isn't worth it unless you do high volume. I use an excellent eBay consigner who passes all fees on to the buyer. I'll make one trip to the post office every month or two and get a small but steady check each week.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
April 13th, 2025 at 2:11:18 PM
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Quote: camaplQuote: DieterQuote: billryanThe article gave me the impression that there is a State Authority charged with cashing chips that weren't pilfered.
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Sure. How long do people expect the chips to be honored?
Isn't the usual window for redeeming retired chips stated in months?
The Playboy Club closed in 1984.
The property rebranded (new ownership?) as the Atlantis Hotel & Casino, which then closed in 1989.
The property became the Trump Regency, which closed in 1999.
Now it's 20+ years later, and someone wants to redeem chips that weren't playable 15 years prior to that?
Hopefully the guy trying to cash the chips can find buyers on the collectors market.
link to original post
Wouldn’t he be guilty of selling stolen property? Of course, that alone could make them desirable to some collectors…
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That's certainly an interesting angle.
I think that the individual probably has a bill of sale from the auction purchase, and has some type of reasonable ownership claim.
The CCC and court didn't say something like "these are stolen, you can't have them"; they said something like "these weren't issued by the casino, we don't have to redeem them".
May the cards fall in your favor.
April 13th, 2025 at 2:14:22 PM
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Anything under a $50 sale isn't worth it unless you do high volume. I use an excellent eBay consigner who passes all fees on to the buyer. I'll make one trip to the post office every month or two and get a small but steady check each week.
When I lived in Vegas, I'd pick up old slot tops, sometimes made of glass, at auctions for a few dollars each. They'd sell in Bisbee for $25, and a few older ones went for a few hundred. I saved a few dozen to make a wall or a room with them, but I doubt that will happen.
When I lived in Vegas, I'd pick up old slot tops, sometimes made of glass, at auctions for a few dollars each. They'd sell in Bisbee for $25, and a few older ones went for a few hundred. I saved a few dozen to make a wall or a room with them, but I doubt that will happen.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
April 13th, 2025 at 7:17:25 PM
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Quote: billryanQuote: MDawgThey are near worthless unless there is some hope of redemption.
Whatever of these chips that might have sold in the past on eBay or otherwise were bought by those hoping to redeem.
link to original post
There is a collectors' market for obsolete chips, especially limited edition ones. Last year, I picked up a bunch of Vegas chips that included several limited edition Rod Stewart $5 chips. They ended up selling for almost double face value, where most $5 chips barely bring a buck or two
I'll put a nice assortment of $1-$25 chips in a Shadow Box with some other giveaways. They sell well enough, but rarely for more than $50, and then I have to pay consignment fees.
Cher has several chips that sell well, especially from her multiple retirement tours.
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The guy had to be an idiot to think he could redeem them at face value and they were not simply collectors chips... or possibly his lawyers thought they might have a solid untested legal argument - or very possibly the guy is a real idiot because his lawyers sold him a bill of goods and it had to be costly.
April 13th, 2025 at 8:05:14 PM
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Quote: zengrifterQuote: billryanQuote: MDawgThey are near worthless unless there is some hope of redemption.
Whatever of these chips that might have sold in the past on eBay or otherwise were bought by those hoping to redeem.
link to original post
There is a collectors' market for obsolete chips, especially limited edition ones. Last year, I picked up a bunch of Vegas chips that included several limited edition Rod Stewart $5 chips. They ended up selling for almost double face value, where most $5 chips barely bring a buck or two
I'll put a nice assortment of $1-$25 chips in a Shadow Box with some other giveaways. They sell well enough, but rarely for more than $50, and then I have to pay consignment fees.
Cher has several chips that sell well, especially from her multiple retirement tours.
link to original post
The guy had to be an idiot to think he could redeem them at face value and they were not simply collectors chips... or possibly his lawyers thought they might have a solid untested legal argument - or very possibly the guy is a real idiot because his lawyers sold him a bill of goods and it had to be costly.
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So explain why the State of NJ is still holding $400,000 plus in order to pay out somebody? If they are holding money for that purpose, that indicates someone has chips that can be cashed in. How is that decided?
Perhaps the chips were cheap enough, the guy took a shot.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
April 14th, 2025 at 7:13:22 AM
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Quote: zengrifter
The guy had to be an idiot to think he could redeem them at face value and they were not simply collectors chips... or possibly his lawyers thought they might have a solid untested legal argument - or very possibly the guy is a real idiot because his lawyers sold him a bill of goods and it had to be costly.
I don't agree with this at all. To me, it was probably a calculated gamble. If it works 20% of the time it might be worth my time. I also don't know if you can call the chips stolen. If someone pays me to destroy the chips and I don't destroy them, are they stolen? I think there could be fraud for not destroying them but stolen just doesn't make sense to me.
You can't know everything, but you can know anything.
April 14th, 2025 at 9:11:36 AM
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Okay, I cannot disagree with that given the legal setup with the state holding redemption money, that it was potentially worth a shot and it could have been +EV irrespective of outcome.
... Perhaps I'm the idiot for failing to see this.
... Perhaps I'm the idiot for failing to see this.
April 14th, 2025 at 9:41:32 AM
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There must be some category of these chips that are redeemable or potentially redeemable and others that are not.
Otherwise who would try to sell them to collectors when the state is standing by to pay out.
Also perhaps the chips being offered for sale to collectors already failed a redemption attempt.
Almost all chips from defunct casinos are of value only to a collector.
Otherwise who would try to sell them to collectors when the state is standing by to pay out.
Also perhaps the chips being offered for sale to collectors already failed a redemption attempt.
Almost all chips from defunct casinos are of value only to a collector.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
April 14th, 2025 at 9:47:20 AM
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Quote: MDawgThere must be some category of these chips that are redeemable or potentially redeemable and others that are not.
Otherwise who would try to sell them to collectors when the state is standing by to pay out.
Also perhaps the chips being offered for sale to collectors already failed a redemption attempt.
Almost all chips from defunct casinos are of value only to a collector.
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Seems like there’s also a large information asymmetry. We are on a gambling focused forum and no one seems to have known about this NJ statute making defunct casinos reserve for chips in the wild so that the NJ Unclaimed Property Administration can redeem them. Per the article they will redeem any chips that were gotten by the individual seeking redemption from the casino in the ordinary course of business.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
April 14th, 2025 at 11:10:02 AM
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Quote: unJon
Seems like there’s also a large information asymmetry. We are on a gambling focused forum and no one seems to have known about this NJ statute making defunct casinos reserve for chips in the wild so that the NJ Unclaimed Property Administration can redeem them. Per the article they will redeem any chips that were gotten by the individual seeking redemption from the casino in the ordinary course of business.
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I'm hoping someone either smarter than me or with more time than me (maybe both) will read the New Jersey regulations and give us a summary.
May the cards fall in your favor.
April 14th, 2025 at 2:01:40 PM
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Here's my guess:
- There is legislation requiring defunct casinos to post funds for redeeming all outstanding financial instruments, TITO (which at least have an expiration date) and cheques.
- They are fully aware that many of those things will never be redeemed. Flushed down a toilet, placed in someone's coffin, dog ate it, in Davy Jones' locker, etc. This was not taken into consideration when the rule was enacted, as it was drafted by some aide who beer-ponged his way through college trying to sound smart in a meeting.
- Due to the Green Duck Incident, they got a ruling that it's in the best interest of the state to not redeem any more of these chips, and they could get redeemed twice and the state will have no idea what to do if the fund runs out. Therefore, because they might not know what to do, they are hereby authorized to do absolutely nothing.
- Being this is New Jersey, eventually somebody's relative will get a $400K grant to propose a Trauma-Informed Study on the Effect of Toxic Casino Chips on the Unsheltered Trans-Squirrel Community, and that will be that.
- There is legislation requiring defunct casinos to post funds for redeeming all outstanding financial instruments, TITO (which at least have an expiration date) and cheques.
- They are fully aware that many of those things will never be redeemed. Flushed down a toilet, placed in someone's coffin, dog ate it, in Davy Jones' locker, etc. This was not taken into consideration when the rule was enacted, as it was drafted by some aide who beer-ponged his way through college trying to sound smart in a meeting.
- Due to the Green Duck Incident, they got a ruling that it's in the best interest of the state to not redeem any more of these chips, and they could get redeemed twice and the state will have no idea what to do if the fund runs out. Therefore, because they might not know what to do, they are hereby authorized to do absolutely nothing.
- Being this is New Jersey, eventually somebody's relative will get a $400K grant to propose a Trauma-Informed Study on the Effect of Toxic Casino Chips on the Unsheltered Trans-Squirrel Community, and that will be that.
April 14th, 2025 at 4:37:38 PM
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I'm wondering what would happen if they attempted to claim(cash out) smaller amounts.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
April 14th, 2025 at 4:43:54 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfI'm wondering what would happen if they attempted to claim(cash out) smaller amounts.
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It looks like you start the claim process online. I may see if I can find my old Taj Mahal chips and put in a claim as an experiment.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
