onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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March 2nd, 2017 at 8:48:41 AM permalink
Also read Hard Rock was involved wanting the northern new jersey casino. The ballot issue failure sent them here not able to start the casino they wanted. Not to mention their five year old plan for a $400 million boutique casino in AC that never happened.
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Mission146
Mission146
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March 2nd, 2017 at 8:53:24 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Also read Hard Rock was involved wanting the northern new jersey casino. The ballot issue failure sent them here not able to start the casino they wanted. Not to mention their five year old plan for a $400 million boutique casino in AC that never happened.



Absolutely, and that is also mentioned in my article.

I don't know that the ballot issue failure did it in and of itself, because I don't know that the ballot measure was ever truly expected to pass. Hard Rock simply thinks, and has always thought, they could have success in the AC market. It had also been mentioned that they were considering leasing the former Revel's gaming space from Straub, and I also believe that they had contemplated purchasing one of the properties that had closed in 2014...but I forget which one. It may have been the Trump Plaza.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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March 2nd, 2017 at 9:24:12 AM permalink
I have no idea if they will succeed or fail. As far as im concerned, anytime a casino is opening and not closing, its a good thing.

Edit to add: Unless its a Dotty's that's opening.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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March 2nd, 2017 at 12:07:28 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I have no idea if they will succeed or fail. anytime a casino is opening and not closing, its a good thing. Unless its a Dotty's.

What you got against my poor Aunt Dotty?

How is stress and strain expressed in a casino?

Now I know we won't necessarily agree even on terms but let us think like engineers for a moment. Stress is the force acting upon the bridge, strain is the number of inches the bridge sags.

So strain on a casino is largely its bottom line.
Stress are the various market and political forces it operates under.

We all know Vegas has a history where unions have been used to strangle a casino owner and force decisions and where the fear of union contracts is high. The Venetian pays housekeepers very high wages to keep unions out. Various bar tender and caterers unions are said to be strong in Vegas. The teamsters represent some dealers, if I recall things from eons ago. (At my age, eons ago can be yesterday).

We know casinos do BATTLE on several fronts:

Labor
Comps
Smoke versus no smoke
Blueies versus young clubbers.
Bingo versus slot players
Slot players versus VP players
VP players versus VP-Enlightened
BJ Ploppies versus BJ-Enlightened
Roulette Plopppies versus 'normal' players?

Oh, heck... everything within a casino is a matter of compromise.

Should we have that darned big six wheel or not?
Should we adopt a European wheel?
Should we pay 2x or 3x on 12 in the Field
Should we comp every fool with twenty bucks in his pocket or just comp the fools with 2,000 dollars in their pockets?
And above all else perhaps... smoking or non smoking or take it to the alley policies? The law, genetics, social policies and financial desperation all play a role here. No matter how much a dealer hates smoke and some customers hate smoke, casinos know that the Irish drinkk and Gamblers smoke. Heck even the little old ladies playing Bingo often want to smoke yet many want a segregated smoke free area.

Sam's Town has chosen to have scooters and oxygen generators galore.
The Hard Rock would prefer a young crowd
Dotty had chosen 'loners and loosers' and abandoned all frills and enticements.
The M maximizes its Kitchen offering endless 'take home specials' hoping to get gamblers.
All casinos offer mailers hoping to entice people in early.
Some casinos treat people on their birthdays, some have a 'celebrate your birthday but only on this one selected day a month, places like that casino out near Hoover Dam have done away with ALL birthday celebrations completely.
Some casinos comp on slots but all have to decide what polidy do we adopt for points on VP and those darn people who memorize the optimal strategy instead of treating it like a slot machine.

So... just how much will 'stress' affect the policies of the Hard Rock (nee Tah Majal) or whatever the most recent name game is? You really think a smoking policy is going to be vital? Are casinos so desperate for getting someone in the door that they will adopt weird stances?

Opening is good. Staying open is better. Getting and staying profitable is best.

Name owner and policy shuffles are entertaining but I don't see any real changes such as infrastructure, police budgets, or street traffic changing in AC. And the Sands is still much more of an effect in AC as the beach sand is.

Are casino managers really unable to do more than shuffle the deck chairs and change the name of the Ship?
WatchMeWin
WatchMeWin
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March 2nd, 2017 at 12:52:18 PM permalink
The Taj is near and dear to my heart as it is the first place I ever played craps at. That being said, Trump was a fricken pig and stole soo much from that place... and the shareholders ate his shit not once, not twice, but three times! What a joke. The banks that lent him money time and time again , while taking their fees but knowing full well that the Donald would take his huge bonuses yet screw the vendors.... and furnish his lavish NY penthouses with material from the Taj on shareholder dime, and ultimately declare bankruptcy time and time again. Shame on them. But the Donald is the ultimate salesman, a sophisticated con to say the least. Thats our president!

Now that a reputable and successful outfit like the HA is taking over, he will find a way to sue them to get his name back up on the property. And if by chance it fails, he will then sue to get his name off the building.

That being said, The HA is going to have a tough time in AC. The property itself is a great property and right on the boardwalk.... but who goes to AC anymore? Really who, other than locals and those who want to get a way once and a while. Summertime they can get traffic, but they better understand what to build and who to cater to. There are too many properties in AC!

They need to renovate the entire joint. Yes, Ive seen bugs in my bathroom there and the faucets never worked properly. My friend saw a rat on the floor he was on... and the list goes on. There are many execs at Seminole Hardrock that are from AC who have a great track record from Borgata. I trust that if they are involved that they will do an amazing job and they will have my business for sure.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
Boz
Boz
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March 2nd, 2017 at 1:13:51 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I have no idea if they will succeed or fail. As far as im concerned, anytime a casino is opening and not closing, its a good thing.

Edit to add: Unless its a Dotty's that's opening.



Looks like they just bought a couple BJ's cocktail lounges including the one on Tropicana. Never went in one but they had a cool logo.
mcallister3200
mcallister3200
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March 2nd, 2017 at 1:33:42 PM permalink
Does opening a new casino in a dying market really create jobs or does it just move jobs from resorts, ballys etc to HR? Unlikely AC is getting new customers, they need a new industry if there's any hope to stop the death spiral.

The employment casinos provide is not worthwhile or a net positive, but that's another rant for another day.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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March 2nd, 2017 at 1:49:57 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Looks like they just bought a couple BJ's cocktail lounges including the one on Tropicana. Never went in one but they had a cool logo.

Good to know that. Me and my GF were ask not to come back to BJ's any more after a few months of playing their promotions.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
ahiromu
ahiromu
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March 2nd, 2017 at 2:02:08 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

Does opening a new casino in a dying market really create jobs or does it just move jobs from resorts, ballys etc to HR? Unlikely AC is getting new customers, they need a new industry if there's any hope to stop the death spiral.

The employment casinos provide is not worthwhile or a net positive, but that's another rant for another day.



I don't think it's fair to say that casinos don't provide a positive net income/profit to an area. Especially travel destinations, of which I would classify AC, it's hard to argue that they don't bring money from Philly and NYC into southern Jersey. Now, whether they provide a net positive including social factors, I might agree that the answer is no.

I agree on your first point though. It's unlikely that a new/refurbished hotel brings enough new customers to the city.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
Mission146
Mission146
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March 2nd, 2017 at 8:18:12 PM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

Does opening a new casino in a dying market really create jobs or does it just move jobs from resorts, ballys etc to HR? Unlikely AC is getting new customers, they need a new industry if there's any hope to stop the death spiral.

The employment casinos provide is not worthwhile or a net positive, but that's another rant for another day.



In the case of this particular casino, it certainly will create some temporary (but pretty good paying) construction jobs. HRI plans to invest around 300 million into rehabbing and rebranding the property, so that obviously wouldn't be happening had the property not sold to anyone as Icahn publicly stated he had no intention of reopening it.

I don't know that the death spiral hasn't stopped, granted it's only a couple of months, but total casino win was up 6% in January of 2017 v. January of 2016. Furthermore, 2016 was a better year for casino win than 2015 for the first time in a decade.

As far as diverting jobs from one place to another, I'm going to say yes and no. What you had with the AC market, at least the bottom tier casinos, for the last several years is a war of attrition. Basically, you had a few casinos that were losing money but a couple of those casinos also knew that, if they could hold on long enough, there was a potential to be profitable again.

When it comes to jobs, I don't think every job is merely moved from one place to another. To give an extreme example of what I am talking about, let's say that there is a small town with two competing convenience stores or gas stations. Each of these two locations is open from 7a-11p, and each of the two locations loses a little bit of money as the revenues don't quite cover day-to-day operating costs.

However, each location has two cashiers working per day, one on the 7a-3p shift and the other on the 3p-11p shift, so in total, you have four cashiers. While there isn't much hope of actual improvement, the owners of both gas stations know that, if the other gas station were to close, then their own gas station could be slightly profitable.

Let's imagine though that, 'Slightly profitable,' entails enough business only during the, 'Prime Time,' hours, we'll call them between 4p-9p for these purposes, two have two cashiers working at the one gas station. Also, 'Prime Time,' only constitutes Monday through Friday.

The result is that what was once two gas stations that would have had at least three employees each (obviously a company losing money wants to avoid overtime) would have 224 combined operating hours every week. After one closes and the other keeps the same hours, but hires a part-time employee to cover, 'Prime Time,' the total labor output is 137 hours per week. Essentially, we go from as many as four full-time jobs and two part-time jobs to as few as three FT and one PT job.

It's kind of the same thing, in a way. While the workload for the employee(s) in a given department might not be what it would be if there were fewer companies in the market, which, of course, technically decreases efficiency, you still need to have the physical employees if there is going to be a non-zero amount of work.

This is also proven by the fact that many of the former Trump Taj Mahal employees are still out of work. If the way it worked was the new casino opens and the employees from the other casinos simply move there and the net number of individuals in the workforce is unchanged, then the same concept should work in reverse, when a place closes all of the employees would scatter to the other places and the net number of employees in the market would remain the same.

But, it's much more complex than that. More complex than I'm making it, too. I think one positional example, though, would be something like a Director of Marketing. Most casinos only have one such person, so fewer casinos, fewer Directors of Marketing. If you have a casino, you have a Director of Marketing, even if he doesn't necessarily have as much to do as he would if there were fewer casinos as a result putting more hosts and other staff under him given that they serve more guests.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219

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