Tropicana shooting
Quote: NathanMy dad was begged for food by a bum holding a sign saying,"Will work for food." My dad had just left Burger King, and has a good heart. He gave the bum his just bought BK meal and the bum through it back in his face screaming,"I was expecting you to give me money, you jerk!" Wow. The audacity of some people. ..
I've heard many variations of this story. Whenever this conversation comes up, someone who was already unsympathetic to the homeless has a version ready.
I don't know if yours is true or not. 300 million people in the country, I'm sure it has happened more than once. Just not nearly as often as it is told.
I've given many homeless food without incident.
Similarly, you can identify bad actors and flaws in any big enterprise, be it education, law enforcement, the military, or the poor and attempts to help them. It's insignificant unless you can show a pervasive problem that is worse than it should be, considering humans are involved.
I used to be a low wage casino worker and rest assured, I wanted to boil people who didn't work and showed up on welfare day to hand tax money I contributed to, back over to my boss. But, every system has some abuses.
Many of these people choose to dwell in the tunnels built under the strip and elsewhere designed to carry flash flood runoff.
Lots live very deep in the tunnels: too deep to get out when the inevitable flash flood comes along and flushes them out.
I wonder: any statistics on how many people die, annually, in these tunnels due to drowning?
The ACA did nothing to change the employer-centric health insurance structure in this country. It may have helped people on the margins, but the default way most people get insurance coverage in this country is still through their employer at a vastly subsidized rate compared to what's available on the ACA marketplace. That's the problem -- those employer subsidies make for a strong disincentive to strike out on one's own. It's a chicken-and-egg problem: unless you already know you're going to be successful, it's hard to justify taking on the increased costs of buying a more expensive individual plan. I took the risks and it paid off, but not everyone has the same situation. The point is that if healthcare costs didn't increase on the individual marketplace vs. at a larger employer, that senseless barrier to entrepreneurship would fall away. There is no good policy reason to discourage entrepreneurship with that structural disadvantage.Quote: BozI thought you guys solved that. Your hero stood up there yesterday and stated how many more people have insurance now. And the majority of people can find a policy for under a $100 a month with the subsidies. And since most new businesses don't provide much income in the first few years, new business owner should qualify, problem solved.
Sorry, it's not a big part. A much bigger part is the work ethic and personal responsibility needed to open and grow a successful business. And most of today's younger generation don't have those tools because they never were required to have them, even if mommy and daddy had the money to help them.
Ironically, as I'm typing this, a HealthCare.gov commercial came on touting a family plan average for $432/month. I wish I could get anywhere close to that number.
Quote: dave12038457Lots of assumptions, little on facts.
Yes conservatives do tend to believe in smaller government.
However, smaller government doesn't mean conservatives would approve of a lawless society.
Rather the complete opposite. Conservatives tend to support law and order in the street via the police and a strong military. When conservatives speak of "smaller government" it is about the many government programs,studies and regulations that encumber businesses and citizens alike.
I for one find it most ironic that it is very difficult to start a small business, yet easy to sneak into the country....
There's a huge difference between allowing personal freedoms and a lawless society.
Thousands of people walk right past panhandlers every day, don't give them money, and do not get overtaken with rage.
This is literally the conservative version of liberal millennial's getting "triggered".
Quote: MathExtremist
Ironically, as I'm typing this, a HealthCare.gov commercial came on touting a family plan average for $432/month. I wish I could get anywhere close to that number.
You and I both. It's just my wife and I and we went from $952 this year to $1641 a month in 17. That is with a $7000 deductible each.
I would love to be able to have a Health Savings account to put the $18k in and buy a cheap Major Medical policy with a $100k deductible or such. It's not a solution for everyone, but it should be an option without penalty.
Instead the ACA just became another form of redistribution of wealth that Obama cares so much about. After all, you and I shouldn't be rewarded for taking risks, we should feel "lucky". Always easy coming from someone who really never had a job in their life.
Quote: BozYou and I both. It's just my wife and I and we went from $952 this year to $1641 a month in 17. That is with a $7000 deductible each.
I would love to be able to have a Health Savings account to put the $18k in and buy a cheap Major Medical policy with a $100k deductible or such. It's not a solution for everyone, but it should be an option without penalty.
Instead the ACA just became another form of redistribution of wealth that Obama cares so much about. After all, you and I shouldn't be rewarded for taking risks, we should feel "lucky". Always easy coming from someone who really never had a job in their life.
Insurance itself is a form of wealth redistribution. The several people who do not need to make major claims are supposed to subsidize those that do. But I think that only works in a completely free market, or a single payer program. It can't be this weird mixture of both.
Personally I feel that healthcare privatization causes more problems than it solves, but I am 100% ready and willing to be proven wrong.
Quote: gamerfreakThere's a huge difference between allowing personal freedoms and a lawless society.
Thousands of people walk right past panhandlers every day, don't give them money, and do not get overtaken with rage.
This is literally the conservative version of liberal millennial's getting "triggered".
Really, they just copied the whole play book. Banning books, triggering, ramming my morals down your throat, etc.
Pretty fast. If you got no handouts for two weeks what are the chances you'd still be trying in 4 weeks.
Next to zero. That's how fast.
I mean, THAT would work.
Resolve to not give a handout for an entire month. Tell anyone who asks it's no handouts January.
Will some people die and starve to death? Good question.
Quote: rxwineHow fast would the panhandling stop in Vegas if people just stopped handing out money?
Maybe more of them would start selling $1 cold waters. That would be great.
Who said it was hard to start a small business?
I'm pretty sure there are low-end bronze-type plans that would fit that need. There certainly are in my market, but your prices are higher than mine so maybe the plan choices are different too.Quote: BozYou and I both. It's just my wife and I and we went from $952 this year to $1641 a month in 17. That is with a $7000 deductible each.
I would love to be able to have a Health Savings account to put the $18k in and buy a cheap Major Medical policy with a $100k deductible or such. It's not a solution for everyone, but it should be an option without penalty.
Instead the ACA just became another form of redistribution of wealth that Obama cares so much about. After all, you and I shouldn't be rewarded for taking risks, we should feel "lucky". Always easy coming from someone who really never had a job in their life.
But as someone else pointed out, insurance is already wealth redistribution, and without any insurance at all, you end up with a different type of wealth redistribution anyway. If we're already committed as a society to spend tax dollars not letting people die in the streets or in the lobbies of hospital emergency rooms, then we should figure out the cheapest way to fulfill that commitment. Isn't that what conservative financial policy would dictate?
Quote: RigondeauxI've heard many variations of this story. Whenever this conversation comes up, someone who was already unsympathetic to the homeless has a version ready.
And it's most likely bs. We could very easily test the ratio of polite recipients to rude ones. The ones who respond the way that one did to Nathan's dad is among an extreme minority.
Quote: rxwineHow fast would the panhandling stop in Vegas if people just stopped handing out money?
About as quickly as it would take the casinos to shut down if people just stopped handing them money as well.
Quote: RigondeauxI've heard many variations of this story. Whenever this conversation comes up, someone who was already unsympathetic to the homeless has a version ready.
I don't know if yours is true or not. 300 million people in the country, I'm sure it has happened more than once. Just not nearly as often as it is told.
I've given many homeless food without incident.
Similarly, you can identify bad actors and flaws in any big enterprise, be it education, law enforcement, the military, or the poor and attempts to help them. It's insignificant unless you can show a pervasive problem that is worse than it should be, considering humans are involved.
I used to be a low wage casino worker and rest assured, I wanted to boil people who didn't work and showed up on welfare day to hand tax money I contributed to, back over to my boss. But, every system has some abuses.
Well, to be fair, it was said by a family member that this happened to my father.
My grandparents fed people out the back door in the Depression. My parents took in travelers us kids met on Greyhound, shower, food, good bed for a night. I continue where I can, whether food bank drives or just a hot sandwich.
There are a lot of hungry people in this country. Shameful situation. A little help matters a lot.
Went to work on a relative's car in Portland, near SE 82nd, and saw that they'd erected a tent-like structure in the yard, fronting on their street.
Inside she was cooking spaghetti, and there was coffee and extra cans of food there as well (cans donated by neighbors), with picnic benches for the homeless to sit on, out of the freezing weather, while they ate a warm meal.
Come to find out they live near a homeless enclave / shelter, and the shelter apparently doesn't cook hot meals on Sundays, so for the past year they've picked up the slack and cooked for the homeless (or "houseless") on Sunday: 10AM til 7PM.
There was a regular influx of hungry homeless, all were polite, sober and appreciative.
Like they say: "Think globally, act locally."
Recently it has gotten a bit out of control in Las Vegas since that law went into effect and pretty much anyone can hang out anywhere and Pan Handle for a living or they can dress up as Mickey Mouse or whatever and ask for money when you take a picture. I have no problem with anyone that wants to work the streets for money. It isn't very easy and I know cause I spent some time doing it in my early 20s. I love it when people think they are all living in mansions and driving new cars making tons of dough a day begging for money. This is not the case!
Anyways... my point was that I am more than willing to hook up a pan handler with some cash and food. Many times I ask them if they want some free food at many of the downtown casinos that I have far too much comp that I know what to do with. Most of the time they are like: "I don't need no stinking food" LOL! The ones that take me up on the offer are usually pretty cool. Sometimes I share a meal with the person and other times I do not. I always take care of the tip and I tell them they can order whatever and as much as they want! I'll even drop them some dough to do whatever they want with from 5 dollars up to 100 depending on my mood. I refuse to give to the church or some charity because we all know they aren't getting the money to the people in need. I like to give my Tithe to the people directly. Oddly enough the more aggressive the Pan Handler the more I respect them. If they are all quiet and like: hey sir... I usually just breeze right by them. Now if they come on with the story about I just need 20 bucks to get this bus that my wife and kids are waiting for me... I just keep going lol. The worst one is the woman who has had stage 4 cancer and trying to get to Maine for over 3 years now downtown! That is the only Pan Handler that bugs me but she never says a word to me just keeps holding that same sign up for years now. I do find it funny how things have changed though. Not too long ago Metro would of been all over you if they seen you Pan Handling or sleeping on the sidewalk outside of any Casino. Now it appears it is legal to camp out at the front door. No problem for me... I just step right over them on my way into the Den of Iniquity!
Quote: monet0412Of course if your like me you realize the American Dream has died out long ago. If you ever seen Tim Roth in "A Beautiful Country" he has a great quote... Binh says: "I go to America" and Tim Roth's character replies: "I offer you a new life and you choose an old dream"
The American dream is not dead. It just is what it's always been - a dream. Not many people are willing to put in the hard work and lifestyle sacrifices it takes to start a business from scratch, or even pursue their dream career. A job with benefits is much easier and more secure.
Yeah, sometimes I can tell the dealer knows people are buying in with the amount of their disability or social security check. Maybe it irritates the dealer, maybe not, but what else has a decrepid old man got to look forward to?Quote: RigondeauxI used to be a low wage casino worker and rest assured, I wanted to boil people who didn't work and showed up on welfare day to hand tax money I contributed to, back over to my boss. But, every system has some abuses.
Quote: FleaStiffYeah, sometimes I can tell the dealer knows people are buying in with the amount of their disability or social security check. Maybe it irritates the dealer, maybe not, but what else has a decrepid old man got to look forward to?
It's their money, they can do whatever they want with it.
Quote: FleaStiffYeah, sometimes I can tell the dealer knows people are buying in with the amount of their disability or social security check. Maybe it irritates the dealer, maybe not, but what else has a decrepid old man got to look forward to?
I'm not talking about the old, or even disabled. I'm talking about healthy people of working age who obviously have homes and plenty to eat, who are gambling away hundreds of dollars in a sitting on a regular basis. Money that was given them on the premise that they needed it to survive.
It also sucks when you see EBT accepted at places you can't really afford to eat, when you're working full time. I think that's probably more a corporate abuse, with those companies buying off politicians to get into the program.
The point is, I understand these frustrations. But, it doesn't follow that there are not truly needy people who benefit from these programs, or from private or individual charity.
And yeah, the idea that being a beggar or on welfare is paradise on earth is foolish.
But, there are flaws and abuses, like with everything. If you want to argue for this stuff, you have to knowledge that, or people will just cling to the story about the one beggar who threw his free food at his benefactor.
