AC. Dealing get more Bizzare ...Stockton/showboat deal on the ropes
Quote: BozWhy would Trump want another casino there as competition? Makes no sense.
Because enforcing the covenant means they can extract a cash settlement out of them to drop it.
Quote: JackStraw8004Can't the state and the Mayor get involved in this. They are affecting peoples lives. This is about a college campus. They can't even get the Revel deal done and now they are fighting over the Showboat. The Taj was almost out of business a couple of months ago. Big deal, security would have to work a little harder to keep underage gamblers out of the casino.
I think that is the reason and I don't think it is a little work either. If there are a ton of 18-20 year olds running around where there is free alcohol I can just picture the amount of trouble they will get in.
What bullshit. You can practically throw a stone from UNLV and hit Hard Rock Casino.
Quote: JackStraw8004Can't the state and the Mayor get involved in this. They are affecting peoples lives. This is about a college campus. They can't even get the Revel deal done and now they are fighting over the Showboat. The Taj was almost out of business a couple of months ago. Big deal, security would have to work a little harder to keep underage gamblers out of the casino.
It's going to take a lot of time in court to get that condition removed from the contract.
I can see a college next door doesn't help Taj as most students would be underaged and can't gamble or drink in the clubs. A casino hotel next door would probably bring more business in. I agree with others though that this is probably just a chance to get some money out of the deal.
Shouldn't that really say Icahn and not Trump?Quote: BozWhy would Trump want another casino there as competition? Makes no sense.
Quote: jerrysnjSo the Taj has a convenient that says there has to be a casino and Caesars has a deed restriction saying there can't be a casino. Which one supersedes?
I can see a college next door doesn't help Taj as most students would be underaged and can't gamble or drink in the clubs. A casino hotel next door would probably bring more business in. I agree with others though that this is probably just a chance to get some money out of the deal.
A college next door basically means taj needs to check ID at the entrance.
Also, the original would definitely supersede. Caesars added the deed restriction on just now when they were selling the property because they don't want more competition in town.
Quote: sc15A college next door basically means taj needs to check ID at the entrance.
Why would the college kids want to go to the Taj -- AKA the most depressing beachfront building in the universe -- when they can go to The Pool at Harrah's right across town or mur.mur at Borgata?
There are plenty of underage kids trying to get into Harrah's and the Trop and Borgata now. No one tries to get into the Taj. Proximity or not, this will not be a problem for them.
Someone said this should have been found "in discovery". Two things about that: First, it's a 1988 agreement. Very possible it was filed away so deep it was impossible to find. Who has 25 year old paperwork(obviously the Taj does :). So I might give them a pass on that. Second, I don't know who much "discovery" occurs during a real estate transaction. Which at it's core is what the Showboat sale was. Yes you would do a title search and all that jazz, but look for a 1988 agreement with a neighboring casino that might impact the sale?....easy to miss I think, which they did. Only in AC baby.
Quote: IntheknowWhy wouldn't another crack dealer want another crack dealer living next door? More foot traffic helps each other. Casinos don't care about AC nor should they. They have responsibility to shareholders.
In business school they would call that "ancillary marketing". Sometimes having a bunch of restaurants or bars in the same neighborhood helps everybody. Same with Casinos. If Vegas just had 5 or 6 casinos. It wouldn't be Vegas. 40 Casinos. Yeah baby.
I think it probably hurts Taj, to have a college next door. Helps them to have a casino. A year ago there were 4 casinos at the north end of the AC boardwalk. Now only 2. No reason to go to that part of town any more.
Quote: MprtUSA516Another reason not to go to the Taj. The Taj's statement on this said: "You do not see a college on the Las Vegas strip."
What bullshit. You can practically throw a stone from UNLV and hit Hard Rock Casino.
No, it's quite a ways. More importantly Hard Rock ain't the Strip.
Quote: MprtUSA516
What bullshit. You can practically throw a stone from UNLV and hit Hard Rock Casino.
Quote: bobsimsNo, it's quite a ways. More importantly Hard Rock ain't the Strip.
The most western tip of the main UNLV campus is at Harmon and Swenson, about 50 yards from Hard Rock at Harmon and Paradise. You could literally throw a stone to Hard Rock. However that section and entrance to UNLV campus is not classrooms nor student housing. It is the athletic fields and buildings.
Quote: vendman1I have no direct knowledge of this. But I'm guessing that the agreement with Trump stems from when they connected the Showboat and Taj up near where the ballrooms for Taj are. I'm sure when they made it possible to walk from one to the other without going outside. Each property wanted some assurance that the other would run a decent business, hence the 1988 agreement. I would love to be the lawyer that figures this mess out. Think of the hours you could bill.
Someone said this should have been found "in discovery". Two things about that: First, it's a 1988 agreement. Very possible it was filed away so deep it was impossible to find. Who has 25 year old paperwork(obviously the Taj does :). So I might give them a pass on that. Second, I don't know who much "discovery" occurs during a real estate transaction. Which at it's core is what the Showboat sale was. Yes you would do a title search and all that jazz, but look for a 1988 agreement with a neighboring casino that might impact the sale?....easy to miss I think, which they did. Only in AC baby.
All deeds and covenants pertaining thereto are recorded with the county clerk's office.
http://m.pressofatlanticcity.com/communities/atlantic-city_pleasantville_brigantine/contract-shows-stockton-knew-showboat-issue-was-still-in-effect/article_b7c59348-d4f0-11e4-a7ff-179ca561e77b.html?mode=jqm
Quote: jerrysnjAn article in today's AC Press says that Stockton knew of the covenant as it was in the contract but went ahead with the sale with that pending. Seems like an epic mistake by Stockton.
Wow...assuming that's correct. Somebody is getting fired. Or should. But it's jersey so someone will probably get a 6 figure gov't job instead.
Perhaps Stockton can enact a 1 strike and your out policy in regards to underage casino visits?
Quote: vendman1Wow...assuming that's correct. Somebody is getting fired. Or should. But it's jersey so someone will probably get a 6 figure gov't job instead.
isn't that something that should be disclosed as a seller? Or is it the buyers due diligence to figure it out?
Quote: GWAEisn't that something that should be disclosed as a seller? Or is it the buyers due diligence to figure it out?
I don't know I'm not a real estate attorney. But I would think you are right, the seller would have some responsibility to disclose it. I really think it's possible that the agreement was signed so long ago (the 80's) that no one working on the deal (on either side) was aware it existed. At least I hope so. The alternative is gross incompetence (as opposed to a simple oversight).
Either way it typifies the mess that is AC. I for one miss the Showboat. It had a casual low roller vibe i liked, and was the easiest of the CET properties for beach access.
Quote: vendman1I don't know I'm not a real estate attorney. But I would think you are right, the seller would have some responsibility to disclose it. I really think it's possible that the agreement was signed so long ago (the 80's) that no one working on the deal (on either side) was aware it existed. At least I hope so. The alternative is gross incompetence (as opposed to a simple oversight).
Either way it typifies the mess that is AC. I for one miss the Showboat. It had a casual low roller vibe i liked, and was the easiest of the CET properties for beach access.
Not an RE attorney, but I've worked in the field before. Under a normal situation, the selling agent or representative would have a legal obligation to disclose this arrangement, since it clearly would be considered a material fact, if nothing else. There're a few ways around it, but those are giant red flags and better off used for specific situations (such as transfer of a known quantity, like transferring title of the house to an heir while still alive to avoid estate taxes). If it was intentionally undisclosed, then there's grounds for a suit based on misrepresentation. If it was unintentional, then there's a case for gross negligence.
However, according to the article posted above, "Stockton University officials were aware when they purchased the Showboat Casino from Caesars Entertainment that a covenant on the site that required the property be used for a first-class casino hotel was still in effect." A lot of these agreements are subject to the 'secret' clause of "If anybody cares or notices" though... and my guess is that they were betting on picking up a bargain, subject to this.
Quote: VenthusNot an RE attorney, but I've worked in the field before. Under a normal situation, the selling agent or representative would have a legal obligation to disclose this arrangement, since it clearly would be considered a material fact, if nothing else. There're a few ways around it, but those are giant red flags and better off used for specific situations (such as transfer of a known quantity, like transferring title of the house to an heir while still alive to avoid estate taxes). If it was intentionally undisclosed, then there's grounds for a suit based on misrepresentation. If it was unintentional, then there's a case for gross negligence.
However, according to the article posted above, "Stockton University officials were aware when they purchased the Showboat Casino from Caesars Entertainment that a covenant on the site that required the property be used for a first-class casino hotel was still in effect." A lot of these agreements are subject to the 'secret' clause of "If anybody cares or notices" though... and my guess is that they were betting on picking up a bargain, subject to this.
Thanks for the insight. That makes some sense. So you think Stockton was hoping no one at the Taj would remember, or care, that they had a covenant requiring Showboat to operate as a casino. Seems like a big risk to me.
