Atlantic City Open Forum

Quote: bw

Would these promises of freebies normally be in writing? If not, players should demand that they be put in writing so that all terms are clear.

No.

The future expected value, to a casino (&its reps), for retaining a customer of this magnitude would be taken for granted, as simple math, in any gaming market where profit were the primary incentive.

Why would you not want to maximize the exposure of this guy to your house advantage, on future visits, unless your hands are tied by bean counting, hedge fund trendoids who have no concept of the real world gaming business?

Between this and last years Revel promotion lawsuits, the courts views on these cases will influence how AC casinos operate for years to come. I will assume the casinos will win both and just get greedier.

Quote: Boz

Between this and last years Revel promotion lawsuits, the courts views on these cases will influence how AC casinos operate for years to come. I will assume the casinos will win both and just get greedier.

(April 03, 2014, 8:18 PM ET) -- Atlantic City, N.J., casino Revel was hit Wednesday with a putative class action suit stemming from a slot machine promotion that has been credited with helping the casino stabilize after emerging from bankruptcy, but has drawn several lawsuits from players who say they were defrauded.

Howard Stern of Middletown, N.J., filed suit in New Jersey federal court April 2, claiming he was drawn to Revel by its “You Can’t Lose” promotion in July 2013, in which advertisements told gamblers the casino would reimburse them for losses...

http://www.law360.com/articles/524506/nj-casino-hit-with-3rd-class-action-over-slot-promotion

Howard Stern? Really?

Quote: rdw4potus

Howard Stern? Really?

I am inclined to join this class action so long as it as long as it is assigned to the esteemed, New Jersey federal court Judge, His Honor. "Baba Booey".

For those that dismiss this as a joke, I remind them ... this is New Jersey, home to Xanadu & the land where $2.5 billion $ ghost casinos , grow to the sky (via the state raiding their employees pension funds).

I wonder if Dominic Barbara will be co-counsel?

I know Brian Davis and he is a good attorney

Now a Golden Nugget Dealer claims Harrahs Security beat him?:

"SOURCE D’Amato Law Firm and Maggiano, DiGirolamo & Lizzi, P.C.

ATLANTIC CITY, N.J., April 7, 2014 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Frank J. Farrell, Jr., an Atlantic City casino dealer for more than 30 years, is the latest victim of a "gang-like" beating inflicted by in-house security guards at Harrah's hotel-casino, according to his recently filed civil complaint naming Harrah's, its parent company, Caesars, and numerous related businesses. He becomes the seventh plaintiff to file similar civil actions against the global gaming and entertainment giant.

Mr. Farrell, 55, who has worked at the Golden Nugget since 1988, and previously worked at Harrah's, asserts in his complaint that he came to Harrah's on the night of November 18, 2013 to inquire about lodging. He had been a guest of Harrah's in the past and was following up on a solicitation by the casino's Total Rewards customer-incentive program. Without provocation, Mr. Farrell, while attempting to obtain the information from casino personnel, was brutally attacked by a pack of guard"

http://www.walb.com/story/25183607/beaten-new-jersey-veteran-casino-dealer-latest-to-allege-corporate-negligence-allowing-pattern-of-casino-security-guard-violence-at-harrahs-atlantic


-This is a news 4 video containing clips from a number of recent alleged Harrahs Security beatings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QGbZuzOFFA

$12.5M price tag for former Claridge casino sale
WAYNE PARRY, ASSOCIATED PRESS

April 7, 2014 | Updated: April 7, 2014 2:22pm

ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. (AP) — Bally's Atlantic City has revealed how much a buyer paid for the former Claridge casino hotel in Atlantic City.

In a filing with state casino regulators made public Monday, Bally's says TJM Properties paid $12.5 million for the Claridge, which the Florida company plans to operate as a stand-alone, non-gambling hotel.


Neither side would reveal the purchase price when the deal closed in February.

When it operated as a casino, the Claridge was the smallest gambling hall in Atlantic City. It became known for its widely advertised motto, "Smaller Is Friendlier."

It is now taking reservations for stays beginning memorial Day weekend.

The Claridge opened in 1929. Guests included Marilyn Monroe, Al Capone, Princess Grace of Monaco, Frank Sinatra, and Nucky Johnson, the real-life inspiration for HBO's "Boardwalk Empire.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/12-5M-price-tag-for-former-Claridge-casino-sale-5383425.php

Quote: 7star4now

"Frank J. Farrell, Jr., an Atlantic City casino dealer for more than 30 years, is the latest victim of a "gang-like" beating inflicted by in-house security guards at Harrah's hotel-casino, according to his recently filed civil complaint naming Harrah's, its parent company, Caesars, and numerous related businesses. He becomes the seventh plaintiff to file similar civil actions against the global gaming and entertainment giant."

Maybe the only thing that will wake up or shake up the bigwigs in back of Caesars Palace will be a series of hefty settlements.

Quote: walb-tv

Mr. Farrell, 55, who has worked at the Golden Nugget since 1988 . .

Ummmmm, the Nugget took it over in 2011.

Quote: SanchoPanza

Ummmmm, the Nugget took it over in 2011.

Good point, he better hope his lawyer pays more attention to detail.

Analyst on CET's future: "You can smell the desperation"

HAROLD BRUBAKER, INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
LAST UPDATED: Tuesday, April 8, 2014, 1:08 AM

Caesars Entertainment Corp. last year slashed the value of three Atlantic City casinos by 89 percent, recording $2.2 billion in impairment charges, according to documents released Monday by the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement.

Over the last two years, the Las Vegas company cut the value of Showboat, the smallest of its Atlantic City operations, by 94 percent. Caesars Entertainment's other New Jersey casinos are Bally's AC, Caesars, and Harrah's.

Saverio R. Scheri III, president and chief executive of WhiteSand Gaming L.L.C., a consulting firm with offices in Atlantic City, Las Vegas, and overseas, said the write-downs were not surprising amid Caesars' recent financial maneuvers designed to salvage the company that has struggled under more than $20 billion in debt.

"You can smell the desperation," Scheri said.

Caesars announced in late March that it will close a casino in Tunica, Miss., this summer. The company also recently announced a plan to sell four casinos in Las Vegas and New Orleans in a bid to shield them from current creditors in a bankruptcy.

Caesars Entertainment's four Atlantic City casinos recorded $1.18 billion in revenue in 2013, down 10 percent from $1.31 billion in 2012. Operating profits were $239.21 million in 2013, down 25 percent from $318.2 million.

The company could not be reached for comment.

The overall financial results for the 12 casinos that operated in Atlantic City last year were ugly.

Five of them had operating losses for the year.

Borgata and Tropicana were the only operators to post gains in operating profits. They were also among the three casinos that were open for all of 2012 and 2013 and posted gains in net revenue from one year to the next.

The third, Atlantic Club, deserves an asterisk.

Atlantic Club recorded $112 million in revenue, up 8 percent, but was closed in January after being sold to Caesars and Tropicana in a bankruptcy auction for $23.57 million.

Total operating profits for the industry fell for the seventh straight year - even excluding Revel, which had an operating loss of $130.24 million on net revenue of $189.71 million.

From 2000 through 2007, Atlantic City's casino industry had aggregate operating profits of more than $1 billion each year.

Last year, that figure was $235.27 million.

Beyond the casino floor, results weren't much better. Revenue from hotel rooms totaled $517.67 million, down slightly from $519.41 million in 2012.

Food and beverage sales fell 5.3 percent to $521.64 million from $550.5 million. Revenue from shows, spas, and casino-owned retailers fell 1.6 percent to $190.11 million from $193.12 million.


Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20140408_For_most_Atlantic_City_casinos__2013_was_ugly.html#vkCZUMaRUxdDrqtZ.99

A nice deal for poker players. Play 4 hours at Caesars, Harrahs, or Showboat and you can get a comp room from Sunday-Thursday(some say Fridays as well). You can book for future days as well.

S&P Cuts Caesars’ Grade to CCC- as Cash Burn Raises Default Odds - (AC could look very different soon)

"By Mary Childs Apr 8, 2014 1:51 PM ET 0 Comments Email Print
Standard & Poor’s downgraded Caesars Entertainment Corp. (CZR)’s credit rating by two steps to CCC-, saying a restructuring is “increasingly likely over the near term.”

“Caesars’ capital structure is unsustainable,” S&P credit analysts Melissa Long and Stephen Pagano wrote in a note today. “The company is burning cash to fund capital expenditures and interest payments, and we expect the company will need additional liquidity in 2015 to cover interest, capital expenditures, and debt maturities.”

The largest owner of casinos in the U.S. has struggled to reconcile its debt load with consumers curbing their discretionary spending since the Las Vegas-based company was purchased in a $30.7 billion leveraged buyout by Apollo Global Management LLC and TPG Capital in 2008. Caesars has since sold assets, bought back debt at a discount, sold stock to the public and refinanced loans.

Caesars’ plan to sell four properties to its affiliate Caesars Growth Partners LLC for $2.2 billion “is the first of a series of steps, which could include exchange offers, that Caesars is likely to undertake in 2014” to address its capital structure, the analysts wrote. Some debt holders are challenging that transaction as fraudulent.

S&P lowered its estimate of recoveries for holders of the operating company’s first-lien debt to between 50 percent and 70 percent, down from an earlier range of 70 percent to 90 percent.

Caesars will go through more than $1.2 billion in cash this year to meet about $3 billion in fixed expenses, the analysts wrote. The casino company probably won’t be able to meet fixed charges of about $3.5 billion next year, they said.

The company burned $730.5 million in cash last year, from $497.5 million the year before and $149.4 million in 2011, according to data compiled by Bloomberg."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-08/s-p-cuts-caesars-grade-to-ccc-as-cash-burn-raises-default-odds.html?cmpid=yhoo

How do these casinos stay in business if they post loses year after year?

Nobody has any money to gamble. To cutch up with the inflation salaries should double if not tripled. This not going to happen in a near future.

" Some debt holders are challenging that transaction as fraudulent. " Now the fun really begins !

Quote: Dicenor33

How do these casinos stay in business if they post loses year after year?

Just like those people, who use one credit card to pay off another, eventually the music stops -as is the case here where the rating co is now calling their IOU's worse than junk status. Like the credit card abuser, it gets to the point where no one will lend them anymore $, on any terms, unless drastic action is taken.

Some think CET's drastic action was to dump their least valuable properties, including 3 in AC, into a separate holding company that could become a sacrificial lamb in a reorganization.

The part that concerns me, as an AC visitor, is that they just announced the Tunica closure, in a similar shrinking market, with no talk of potential buyer even kicking the tires?- just boarding the place up?

It's hard to imagine investors lining up for old CET casinos after Revel backers just took a $2billion fleecing on the high end market, & AC Club went belly up trying to survive on the low end.

Quote: Buzzard

" Some debt holders are challenging that transaction as fraudulent. " Now the fun really begins !

They may have gotten caught trying to reshuffle the deck chairs on the Titanic :

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20140326-710266.html

More like dressing as women to get into a lifeboat !

" Caesars also unveiled plans last year to transfer its stakes in a Baltimore casino project slated to open this year "

Got too be bad if you surrender a golden goose, before she lays a single egg. WOW

Fun little story. I was just doing 6 deck s17 at Borg. RC was 13 with about 3 decks left. All in for 310. I get a 10 and dealer A. I wanted to buy insurance and put 155 up there. Dealer thought I was doubling for less and I won. Craziness.

Quote: Lemieux66

Fun little story. I was just doing 6 deck s17 at Borg. RC was 13 with about 3 decks left. All in for 310. I get a 10 and dealer A. I wanted to buy insurance and put 155 up there. Dealer thought I was doubling for less and I won. Craziness.

Sadly it lost me 155, but it's over now. My theory was I missed the buy insurance question but I swear I was looking the whole time.

Simple stupid question..... Do they have $5 tables of anything in AC? I have never been there, but might be interested in going. And I'd like to be prepared should I decide to go.

They do, especially at off-hours. Resorts and Showboat both have $5 BJ most of the time. Bally's also has BJ at $5 sometimes. All three of those shops will spread $5 3 card poker and ultimate texas holdem/texas hold'em bonus as well. but, the total required bet in those games is more than $5 on a $5 table (ante + blind + play +...)

I haven't been to the Golden Nugget or Trump properties in ages, but I'd be surprised if the limits at GN and Trump Plaza were higher than they are at Bally's.

And, while a $5 table might be rare, $10 is very common. You could play $10 at Harrah's or Borgata or Revel or Caesars or the Trop if the atmosphere to table-limit ratio got too depressing at the other properties.

Quote: SkittleCar1

Simple stupid question..... Do they have $5 tables of anything in AC? I have never been there, but might be interested in going. And I'd like to be prepared should I decide to go.

I saw a 5 dollar BJ table on a Friday. That's today actually at borgata. 8 deck h17

Borgata casino lawsuit: Gambler cheated, won $9.6M
ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. — An Atlantic City casino is suing a big-time gambler, claiming he won $9.6 million in a card-cheating scheme.

The Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa filed a federal lawsuit Tuesday against Phillip Ivey Jr., who describes himself as the greatest gambler of all time and compares himself on his website to Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods and Muhammad Ali.

The suit alleges Ivey and an associate exploited a defect in cards made by a Kansas City manufacturer that enabled them to sort and arrange so-called "good cards." The technique gave him an unfair advantage in baccarat on four occasions between April and October 2012, the casino asserted in its lawsuit.

The casino claims the technique, called "edge sorting," violates New Jersey casino gambling regulations. Joe Lupo, the Borgata's senior vice president, declined to comment on the lawsuit.

There was no immediate response to a message sent Friday to Ivey's Twitter account. A message left with a lawyer who previously represented Ivey also was not immediately returned, and Ivey's website did not include a contact email or a phone number.

The suit claims the cards, manufactured by Gemaco Inc., were defective in that the pattern on the back of them was not uniform. The cards have rows of small white circles designed to look like the tops of cut diamonds, but the Borgata claims some of them were only a half diamond or a quarter of one.

The lawsuit claims that Ivey and his companion instructed a dealer to flip cards in particular ways, depending on whether it was a desirable card in baccarat. The numbers 6, 7, 8 and 9 are considered good cards. Other "bad" cards would be flipped in different directions, so that after several hands of cards, the "good" ones were arranged in a certain manner — with the irregular side of the card facing in a specific direction — that Ivey could spot when they came out of the dealer chute.

The suit claims Ivey wanted the cards shuffled by an automatic shuffling machine, which would not alter the way each card was aligned.

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2014/04/11/3421109/borgata-casino-lawsuit-gambler.html#storylink=cpy

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2014/04/11/3421109/borgata-casino-lawsuit-gambler.html#storylink=cpy

Quote: rdw4potus

They do, especially at off-hours. Resorts and Showboat both have $5 BJ most of the time. Bally's also has BJ at $5 sometimes. All three of those shops will spread $5 3 card poker and ultimate texas holdem/texas hold'em bonus as well. but, the total required bet in those games is more than $5 on a $5 table (ante + blind + play +...)

I haven't been to the Golden Nugget or Trump properties in ages, but I'd be surprised if the limits at GN and Trump Plaza were higher than they are at Bally's.

And, while a $5 table might be rare, $10 is very common. You could play $10 at Harrah's or Borgata or Revel or Caesars or the Trop if the atmosphere to table-limit ratio got too depressing at the other properties.

I actually saw $1 BJ at GN a few months ago.. but it has $0.25 ante on it if you were betting less than $5.

Caesars sells Atlantic City Country Club

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/business/caesars-says-it-has-sold-atlantic-city-country-club/article_6c6c8120-c585-11e3-8027-0019bb2963f4.html

Of course, there are a lot of $5 tables almost everywhere if you want to play the graveyard shift (4AM to noon).

Quote: 7star4now

I thought it might be good idea to start an "uncensored" Forum to general exchange info & opinions re AC.

I suggest this since what used to be the most popular AC forum site site now contains more "closed topics" than open, & the censorship has reduced the # of daily posts, from dozens to hundreds on a given day, to a handful of posts on boring PC topics.

I suspect there may be quite a few who may prefer to discuss AC without the "nanny" element which led to the demise of that board as a source of objective info.

Could you tell me what "Nanny" refers to? I've seen "nanny state" too.

Quote: Greasyjohn

Could you tell me what "Nanny" refers to? I've seen "nanny state" too.

https://www.google.com/#q=define:nanny

It's pretty common usage, I think.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

https://www.google.com/#q=define:nanny

It's pretty common usage, I think.

I know what a nanny is, I just don't know how it is being used in the post I asked about; or what a "nanny state" means.

Quote: Greasyjohn

I know what a nanny is, I just don't know how it is being used in the post I asked about; or what a "nanny state" means.

In that case: https://www.google.com/#q=define:nanny+state

Quote: Greasyjohn

Could you tell me what "Nanny" refers to? I've seen "nanny state" too.

In the context 7Star stated he or she was talking about a forum about AC where the board was controlled by a select few who removed anything that they thought was negative toward AC, even if factual. The discussion became a promotional space for Fantasyland, or their vision of AC where everything was sugar plums and fairies and nothing bad ever happened. It ruined the board of any objectivity and allowed it to become a chat room for a select few who just removed anything they did not like. They made it not worth the time to post there and most quality posters left. That was the vision of a "Nanny State" I believe 7Star was talking about.

Thank you Boz and AoC as we'll.

I think Boz summed it up perfectly.

I frequent both Vegas & AC , when I read the TA board for Vegas, the free for all, exchange of opinions makes want to visit.

The few who control the AC board delete topics that don't serve their boring agenda.

There were a number of posters on that board who had good & interesting info & opinions, even if I personally disagreed, who no longer post due to censorship.

Two more AC casinos in trouble with the DGE

http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/atlantic-city-casinos-fined-107500-numerous-violations

Seems like Revel cannot keep out of their own way if they tried :)

Quote:

Revel also was fined for improperly clearing and collecting the cards after a game of blackjack at which a patron was playing three hands at a time, betting $2,000 on each hand. When the customer disputed the outcome of one hand, the dealer wrongly reassembled the hand in question. That caused the patron to receive a win instead of a loss.

lol. Sounds like a pretty good advantage play.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

lol. Sounds like a pretty good advantage play.

I have never seen a dealer in AC collect the cards in any way so that the hand could be played back
I know in Vegas they could roll all the cards back from the beginning of the shoe and it would be perfect
But, in AC - I have never seen this done in any organized fashion - usually just picked up with no rhyme or reason

I love how Revels idiocy made the guy win lol.

What I don't understand is how they let the dealer back up the hand. Firstly, that is the cardinal sin right there......The dealer dummies up and deals, that is it!!! If there is a dispute, the first thing to be done is to call the floor. He/She will attempt to back up the hand but the dealer will quickly know something is up because their cards will not be the same, unless that is the only part of the process the dealer got right, to scoop his cards last. Then, when the dealer is even further confused when the players cards come out, ESPECIALLY with som much money on the layout, why, oh why don't you call Surveillance and confirm the hand?

Maybe they don't even have anymore Surveillance agents either? Wait for the fine on that one!!! :)

Huh? I've had the dealer back up the cards after he scooped them up too quickly and thought he had won (he had not won)

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Huh? I've had the dealer back up the cards after he scooped them up too quickly and thought he had won (he had not won)

Which is completely and utterly against ALL casino procedures I have either dealt, managed or Surveilled in.

Dealers are a law unto themselves. They simply want to get "on with it". There is NEVER an OK rule where dealers should be handling a dispute. That isn't what they are there for. They are there to be pleasant and deal the game.

You will always find exceptions as you clearly did Axiom, doesn't mean it is right.

Quote: Tomspur

Which is completely and utterly against ALL casino procedures I have either dealt, managed or Surveilled in.

Really? It seems to be the standard where I play. The dealer backs up the cards, and gets the floor's approval to fix the payouts.

There were several hundred dollars on the table, but not thousands.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Really? It seems to be the standard where I play. The dealer backs up the cards, and gets the floor's approval to fix the payouts.

There were several hundred dollars on the table, but not thousands.

Anyway, I cannot pretend like I have worked in every casino on the planet, just the ones I have worked at which is a pretty wide cross section of casinos around. South Africa, America, Asia, Europe and cruise ships. Never in my 15+ years have I ever heard of the dealer backing up the cards.

It would be like having an opera singer fixing your head gasket imo :)

Quote: Tomspur

Anyway, I cannot pretend like I have worked in every casino on the planet, just the ones I have worked at which is a pretty wide cross section of casinos around. South Africa, America, Asia, Europe and cruise ships. Never in my 15+ years have I ever heard of the dealer backing up the cards.

It would be like having an opera singer fixing your head gasket imo :)

So then what should happen? Specifically, the dealer completes a 5-card hand, announces some value which is different than the one he has, and quickly collects the bets and the cards. I protest, but by this time the cards have been collected and are in the discard pile. Now what?

I've only ever seen one of two things happen:

1. The dealer backs up the cards, calls the floor over, and the floor approves the corrected pay-outs, or
2. The dealer calls the floor over, who tells the dealer to back up the cards, which he does. The floor then approves the corrected payouts.

In other words, the dealer either backs up the cards without being asked to by the floor, or does so after being asked to by the floor. I've never seen this situation handled in any other way. What would be done at your casino?

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

So then what should happen? Specifically, the dealer completes a 5-card hand, announces some value which is different than the one he has, and quickly collects the bets and the cards. I protest, but by this time the cards have been collected and are in the discard pile. Now what?

I've only ever seen one of two things happen:

1. The dealer backs up the cards, calls the floor over, and the floor approves the corrected pay-outs, or
2. The dealer calls the floor over, who tells the dealer to back up the cards, which he does. The floor then approves the corrected payouts.

In other words, the dealer either backs up the cards without being asked to by the floor, or does so after being asked to by the floor. I've never seen this situation handled in any other way. What would be done at your casino?

Choice no.2. The dealer cannot out of his own accord decide, now is the time to back up the cards and take action based on the way he had backed them up. He HAS to call the floor over who will then instruct the dealer to back up the cards and if either the dealer or floor are unhappy then they have to phone Surveillance for a check. In fact, if there is more than $200 on the table, I would INSIST on phoning the Eye just to get clarity and make the right decision. It doesn't necessarily mean the game has to stop, just put your pen behind the money paddle and keep dealing the game. When surveillance sees the marker they can check the hand and give you an outcome.

I understand there are other ways of doing things and I'm good with that. Imo, I would like for the dealer to not handle disputes as they cannot always remain objective in their own reviews. No dealer wants to see that he had done anything wrong.

Quote: Tomspur

Choice no.2. The dealer cannot out of his own accord decide, now is the time to back up the cards and take action based on the way he had backed them up. He HAS to call the floor over who will then instruct the dealer to back up the cards and if either the dealer or floor are unhappy then they have to phone Surveillance for a check. In fact, if there is more than $200 on the table, I would INSIST on phoning the Eye just to get clarity and make the right decision. It doesn't necessarily mean the game has to stop, just put your pen behind the money paddle and keep dealing the game. When surveillance sees the marker they can check the hand and give you an outcome.

I'm not sure of the difference between the dealer backing up the cards himself or after the floor comes over. What does that procedure accomplish? Again, the floor person is approving it in either case.

As for the amount of money on the table, this was either a $100 or a $200 min table. I don't remember the bet amounts but it was probably under $1000 between the two players at the table. It was not "big money" by the standards of that table (table is $10k max, and max bets are not uncommon)

I have seen it at lower-limit tables too, and the procedure was the same. I've never once had them call surveillance to verify a game result (other than a large jackpot win, which seems to be the standard procedure even when there is no dispute.)

Quote:

I understand there are other ways of doing things and I'm good with that. Imo, I would like for the dealer to not handle disputes as they cannot always remain objective in their own reviews. No dealer wants to see that he had done anything wrong.

I think that the dealer does it because he assumes that he is right, and, once the player sees the cards and has time to add them up, he will agree. I've seen floor people warn dealers about bad procedure before, but never for backing up the cards.

We are going to go around in cicrles here for the rest of the day. I have presented my side and given reasons, you have had different experiences and that is fine too.

I would not want a dealer who, of his own accord decides to back up a hand and resolves a dispute (this is obviously not what you had said but I'm trying to make a point).
It is very easy for a dealer to migrate away from calling the floor and getting approval to "handling everything himself". That is why we have procedures, why we have double checks and why we have Surveillance.

According to the article above the dealer backed up the cards and got it horribly wrong.....perfect case in point. Perhaps, had the floor person been involved, they may have finally elected to phone Surveillance and get confirmation.

This didn't appear to have happened.

If you think it is ok for a dealer who isn't aware of all procedures with regards to solving disputes, who may not have had extensive training in customer relations such as conflict resolution to solve a problem that could potentially blow up into a full blown argument because the player was drunk, beligirent or just down right positive that he had won.........I can't agree.

A dealer has a defined job description so does a floor person. If the cards cannot be backed up correctly or if there is even a slight dooubt over the correct order of the cards, especially if there is $1000 on the table, then you stick your pride in your pocket and you phone Surveillance. That is their jobs, that is why they are there, to review and advise.

I respect your opinion and your experiences in the casino but it is my opinion that in no way should a dealer ever be allowed to resolve or even attempt to resolve a dispute. He should have the faith in his floor to help him resolve the claims and both of them should have faith in Surveillance that they will help out whenever asked.....

Unfortunately this last dinamic is missing crom many casinos. The table games staff doesn't like or simply doesn't trust Surveillance for whatever mystical reason.....

I understand what you are saying. Procedure for the sake of procedure is important in casinos. I guess, my point is, I don't think that this was the procedure at these places, because the floor seemed ok with it too.

As far as not calling surveillance, I'm not sure of the reason, but they don't seem to like to do it here. I play in several casinos and I've never actually seen it done to resolve a dispute. I do have to say that, as a player, I prefer if these things can be resolved quickly.