Sahara Las Svegas
Quote: DrawingDeadI didn't say I liked the shift in where their revenue comes from, or was for it, or suggest it was a wonderful idea. Before giving more emphasis to non-gaming amenities they didn't ask me, oddly enough. But it is what has happened and continues to happen, as reported both in individual company investor reports and the market research tracking of the LVCVA.
Gotcha.
Quote: DrawingDeadI'm not sure how you feel the brief summary of the obvious problems with Caesars capital structure relates to this as a reply quoting that post. Caesars is incompetently managed both at the corporate and property level in my opinion, while choking on a mountain of debt they can't possibly service to maturity, from a leveraged buyout of the company executed at the top of the market. They also have the least high-end mix of properties of the major Strip operators, and have been maintaining them poorly for quite a while now. They're obviously shifting assets around to prepare to screw their creditors when they default on their debt. On another sort of forum I've had a thread for several years which I titled "Caesars Death Watch."
And at the same time, a number of their major competitors in the Las Vegas market have also been doing reasonably well. Not spectacularly well in their Las Vegas properties compared to some other markets, but still improving for several years. Caesars not so much at all.
I just don't mind taking any opportunity to point out that Harrah's Casinos have had opportunities to change how they do business with respect to gaming revenue, most recently with their new casino "The Cromwell."
As long as they are not focused on gaming revenue and, as you point out, are making terrible financial decisions, I imagine things will not change for them personally.
But when you step back and look at the larger trends at play, Harrah's owns enough casinos that their policies in light of their poor decisions are still affecting the economy here in the Nevada and in the markets that they serve even outside of their own little balance sheets.
In a way, they are sort of proverbially putting feces in the bedsheets for all of gaming revenue.
There are reasons that the NRS has a limit on 75% payback on slots that have to do with the overall integrity of the larger gaming market in the state. New Jersey is even more strict. I have seen where Harrah's sets their payback percentages on the slot floor of certain machines, and it is not pretty.
Quote: StatePaybackPercentages
1¢ Slot Machines
The Strip - 88.22%
Downtown - 88.95%
Boulder Strip - 90.37%
N. Las Vegas - 90.84%
5¢ Slot Machines
The Strip - 90.79%
Downtown - 91.05%
Boulder Strip - 95.78%
N. Las Vegas - 95.37%
25¢ Slot Machines
The Strip - 91.37%
Downtown - 94.77%
Boulder Strip - 96.77%
N. Las Vegas - 96.58%
$1 Slot Machines
The Strip - 93.40%
Downtown - 95.14%
Boulder Strip - 96.21%
N. Las Vegas - 96.30%
$1 Megabucks Machines
The Strip - 88.66%
Downtown - 89.35%
Boulder Strip - 87.78%
N. Las Vegas - 86.76%
All Slot Machines
The Strip - 92.50%
Downtown - 93.38%
Boulder Strip - 94.51%
N. Las Vegas - 93.86%
It's really too bad that we don't have these numbers on a per-owner basis as well. But the strip, while known to be significantly lower, is still significantly different from one casino owner to the next. It's just that those numbers aren't published.
The problem is that someone staying at a Harrah's property that isn't familiar with these percentages might carry over a bad gambling experience to a property that doesn't have their machines set to a 75% payback. In other words, at 75% payback, you are going to lose a lot faster than at a 95% to 96% payback that you might get on the same machine in a market set up more for folks who actually want a chance to win and not just some spa wrap or what-not.
I don't know if anyone out there thinks that Harrah's might have higher than average payback percentages for the strip, but I would assume they have lower than strip-average paybacks for their strip locations. Of all the machines I have seen the payback percentages for a Harrah's property (besides video poker) the payback was set to 86% (for a newish $1 IGT slot machine with MLD etc).
I haven't seen any machines set to 75% payback here ever, but 86% payback for a $1 machine is pretty darn terrible in my opinion unless you just simply don't care about the long term trends in gaming revenue.
Quote: AhighI haven't seen any machines set to 75% payback here ever, but 86% payback for a $1 machine is pretty darn terrible in my opinion unless you just simply don't care about the long term trends in gaming revenue.[/q
Correct, even at 86% it is like raking money from players pockets. On cruise ships we used to set them at about 84% and it was a bloodbath (please note, I am not comparing a land based shop with a cruise ship casino, just mentioning a fact).“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
Quote: ams288A flop according to who? In what way?
(I'm not arguing with your point - I just haven't really seen anyone characterize it as a flop yet so I'm curious).
That is my opinion based on observation, not necessarily a fact. It has been pretty damn quiet the few times I have been in there. A dealer there that I know also told me that tokes have been lower than what would be expected for a newer property. The latter could be more evidence of type of player they've been attracting than that they aren't getting business though.
Neither their blackjack odds or video poker is competitive, although that is to be expected from a CZR property.
Quote: AhighIt's my personal opinion that the public is getting smarter about gambling.
Roulette tables with nowhere to sit because of full seats make me think otherwise..... as well as some strategy errors in blackjack. Also the craps bets that people throw in the middle. The video poker players at the bar who hold A2 in regular deuces wild, 44J in jacks or better, or the $1-2 slot players as well as keno players make me think otherwise even more.
Maybe there are more "pros" who can play 9/6 jacks perfectly or FPDW but are these people really affecting the bottom line? I'm not disagreeing with you but did the public get really smart about sucker bets, or are there less money being gambled then 20 years ago as a whole?
Quote: djatcRoulette tables with nowhere to sit because of full seats make me think otherwise..... as well as some strategy errors in blackjack. Also the craps bets that people throw in the middle. The video poker players at the bar who hold A2 in regular deuces wild, 44J in jacks or better, or the $1-2 slot players as well as keno players make me think otherwise even more.
Maybe there are more "pros" who can play 9/6 jacks perfectly or FPDW but are these people really affecting the bottom line? I'm not disagreeing with you but did the public get really smart about sucker bets, or are there less money being gambled then 20 years ago as a whole?
Roulette tables offer a 94.74% payback. We're talking about payback percentages between 75% and 86%. That would be roulette with six zeros for 85.71% payback or roulette with twelve zeros for 75% payback.
These (ridiculously low) payback percentages make double-zero roulette look like Loosie Goosie.
These payback percentages are generally done ONLY on machines where the payback percentage is not disclosed to the customer.
If you look at Megajackpot hold percentages and notice that YOY megajackpot revenue is down almost 50% for IGT resulting in their unspectacular quarter leading up to the most recent layoffs, that might be another clue (about intelligence of hold percentages and fairness of play). Or it could just be a coincidence.
http://www.igt.com/company-information/investor-relations/earnings-events.aspx?ReleaseID=1920821&PostBack=False
Operating income for 2nd quarter of 2014 compared to 2013 (IE: revenue sharing from 85% to 88% hold mega jackpots)
2014: 72.1M
2013: 129.3M
YOY change: -44%
Quote: TomspurAnybody coming to the opening?
Are you forlorn? (Sad face).
I would love to come to the opening. However, I'm saving up to come out next month. So, no, but I hope you have a great opening with lots of interest.
Quote: beachbumbabsAre you forlorn? (Sad face).
I would love to come to the opening. However, I'm saving up to come out next month. So, no, but I hope you have a great opening with lots of interest.
Not quite forlorn no :)
Will see you when you come out for G2E
Good possibly hoping to get in earlier then the crowd. If not I may wait until after the crowd has dispersed.Quote: TomspurAnybody coming to the opening?
Quote: TomspurAnybody coming to the opening?
Not going to do the midnight opening, but will check it out sometime over the weekend.
I wonder if the will be doing any player card tier matching? :)
Quote: TomspurAnybody coming to the opening?
echelon got completed?!
or am I thinking of the property at stardust/Frontier?
are you giving table games ap's free run in goodwill for the opening?. No? I might check it out, see what type of job they did, amenities, etc. But not going to play.Quote: TomspurAnybody coming to the opening?
Quote: RSIs SLS opening Friday night or Saturday night? I heard Friday but wanted to make sure before driving my lazy ass over there.
Tonight at midnight.
For self-parking, would the best approach be to come in from Paradise Road to pull into the garage, as it was at the old Sahara?
Quote: DrawingDeadI understand from informal chit-chit that the book is going to be a William Hill outlet. Is this correct?
For self-parking, would the best approach be to come in from Paradise Road to pull into the garage, as it was at the old Sahara?
Few quick things. I would suggest the Paradise entrance but there are supposed to be a HUGE amount of people coming but i don't know that for sure.
William Hill will be running the sports book and it is located within a burger bar and beer garden.
I will be in from tomorrow morning at 8AM.
Looking forward to seeing you guys there!
Yeah, I figured I'd best wait 'till midweek or something when all the all the opening weekend gawker folks are back at home nursing their hangovers. Thanks for the reply.Quote: Tomspur...there are supposed to be a HUGE amount of people coming but i don't know that for sure.
<SNIP>
Looking forward to seeing you guys there!
Quote: Some Wise-GuyNobody is going there now 'cause its too crowded.
Quote: AlembertAnybody know yet what their craps table looks like? What odds? 3-4-5 or 10x? How about vig on the 4/10? Up front or on the win only? Will be coming out on the 31st, thinking about checking them out if the game offers decent rules.
345 times and the vig is taken on a winner only.
