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NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
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November 6th, 2011 at 7:16:43 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Just for hitting all 6. And you're right, it wasn't long. Less than 5 minutes.

But it was long enough for people to fear that the inerruption itself killed the continuation of the hot streak.



It makes one wonder if this "instant replay" delay wasn't a dilatory tactic intended to end the hot streak, much like the "chip-change" ruse that interrupts streaks at many other tables?
Doc
Doc
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November 6th, 2011 at 8:04:18 AM permalink
This is an old (stale?) thread, but since it was brought back to life, let me ask a question that came to my mind yesterday.

Suppose a crap table offers the fire bet and that a shooter hits all six separate points. Do they pay out, clear the fire bet markers, and let people place new fire bets on that same shooter, or is the fire bet opportunity gone until the next shooter is up? If there had been a fire bet available that day when Patricia Demauro had her monster roll, I suspect people would have been itching for a chance to get a new fire bet down, even if they had passed up on it in the beginning.

From the casino's viewpoint (assuming that they have enough experience that they don't really believe that hot previous rolls are an omen for hot future rolls), it would seem to be a good idea to accept all of those extra potential wagers on a high-house-edge bet. But what do they really do? I've never seen all six points made on a fire bet table.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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November 6th, 2011 at 8:17:41 AM permalink
The Fire bet is paid ONLY when the shooter had FINALLY sevened-out; it stays up in a "waiting state" waiting to be paid; the payout is activated when shooter loses the dice on a seven out.

If the shooter had already hit all six points - but yet rolls even MORE points, the players will have to wait until the shooter is finished by sevening out, even if the bet was "theoretically completed" earlier.
In other words, you wait, and you better not leave, until the shooter finally sevens out. On a hot roll, it causes the players to wait on payments and logistic problems.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Nareed
Nareed
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November 6th, 2011 at 8:22:48 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

The Fire bet is paid ONLY when the shooter had FINALLY sevened-out; it stays up in a "waiting state" waiting to be paid; the payout is activated when shooter loses the dice on a seven out.



I guess Doc didn't have a six year old child to read him the rules.
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Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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November 6th, 2011 at 8:36:24 AM permalink
Other notes:
1. IF the player rolls for four hours (an absolutely tremendous hand), but had hit all six points a half-hour into the hand, players will wait three and a half hours to collect their Fire bet win.
2. If the shooter passes the dice in the middle of a hand, the bet stays up and continues on with the next shooter. The bet is only "seven-out terminated." The new shooter who continues the hand gets to hold on to the dice through two seven outs as a result: one attributed to the shooter who pass the dice mid-hand, and the new shooter's "purely owned" hand.
3. This is one of the rarer (but more pleasant) logitistical probelms of the bet: if you have to wait, you'll wait through even more winnings, assuming if you're a right-side bettor. If you were a don't pass/DC bettor who used the Fire bet as a hedge, then you'll have to wait through more loses to collect on the Fire bet.
Other problems include:
- Surveillance expense to monitor, as mentioned;
- increase in variance/"dumping" for the house: if the bet hits and payouts out big, the table was by then already dumping from all of the winning pass line, place, come and other bets won in the interim, assuming the vast majority of players are right-side players, which is almost always the case.
- the bet generates modest income, but always aggrevates "house-dumping" scenarios.
- if you have NO other action on the table, you may have to abandon your bet. Some houses don't let you don't let you make the bet and then "not play." What if you have ten players on a crap table, but the only "layout" bet on the table is the shooter's single $3 pass line-line bet? Not a good scenario for the house.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Doc
Doc
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November 6th, 2011 at 11:27:36 AM permalink
Thanks, Dan. I suspect I have never even seen all of the rules for the Fire Bet written down. At the tables where I have played, they seem to describe/offer it very casually. I can't even remember seeing the payouts listed on the tables, and I think they differ from table to table (or have in the past).
kenarman
kenarman
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November 6th, 2011 at 12:38:22 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

The Fire bet is paid ONLY when the shooter had FINALLY sevened-out; it stays up in a "waiting state" waiting to be paid; the payout is activated when shooter loses the dice on a seven out.

If the shooter had already hit all six points - but yet rolls even MORE points, the players will have to wait until the shooter is finished by sevening out, even if the bet was "theoretically completed" earlier.
In other words, you wait, and you better not leave, until the shooter finally sevens out. On a hot roll, it causes the players to wait on payments and logistic problems.



I have seen the 6 hit once (no I hadn't bet it) and they paid it immediately. It took about 5 minutes and then the same shooter carried on. That was at the Grand Villa in Vancouver, BC. 2 players had $5 on it and several more had a buck, dealers had about 3 and were quite excited as well. Being Canada tax free money.
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boymimbo
boymimbo
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November 6th, 2011 at 12:54:28 PM permalink
The tax free money is why the payout doesn't take any time in Canada. I've hit six once personally, and they paid it out after I sevenned out (I think I got at least one point after the fire bet was complete). Now, when they're going for the fourth point at my casino, the pit comes over and records the fire bets so there's no confusion come payout time.
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Doc
Doc
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November 6th, 2011 at 1:05:54 PM permalink
Quote: kenarman

I have seen the 6 hit once (no I hadn't bet it) and they paid it immediately.

Thanks for the additional info, kenarman.

I made it to the Edgewater and River Rock casinos on my last visit to Vancouver, back in 2008, but I haven't been to Grand Villa, Starlight, Boulevard, or any of the others in BC. I have enjoyed each visit to the Vancouver area, and perhaps I can get back again some day and check out the other casinos. I would like that.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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November 6th, 2011 at 1:43:35 PM permalink
Quote: kenarman

I have seen the 6 hit once (no I hadn't bet it) and they paid it immediately. It took about 5 minutes and then the same shooter carried on. That was at the Grand Villa in Vancouver, BC. 2 players had $5 on it and several more had a buck, dealers had about 3 and were quite excited as well. Being Canada tax free money.



This is a policy I'd like to see for the U.S. side of the game: if all six points hit - then pay it out and take it down, as no further points can be made.
After the player sevens out, then re-open the bet.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.

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