Allowing Wagers Over the Posted Table Maximum

Does anyone know what effect a casino's decision to occasionally allow wagers over the posted table maximum would have, if any?

For example, a $300 to $30,000 differential Bacarrat table develops a good trend and draws 30+ gamblers trying to place wagers, so the management decides to allow a 10% cushion for extra wagers over the differential.

I dunno, they seem to stay pretty strict about it. What would 10% accomplish? It would be a matter of raising it quite a bit more.

Quote: dbracey78

Does anyone know what effect a casino's decision to occasionally allow wagers over the posted table maximum would have, if any?

For example, a $300 to $30,000 differential Bacarrat table develops a good trend and draws 30+ gamblers trying to place wagers, so the management decides to allow a 10% cushion for extra wagers over the differential.

I'm not sure what effect it would have on the bottom line, but Horseshoe is a good example of a casino regularly offering higher than posted table minimums. I doubt that it happens all that often, but the more interesting one would be the effect of allowing a "lower than posted minimum" during slow times. It's a slippery slope, but if you have an empty game of $10, or a full table of $5, what would be the potential expected loss?

Quote: dbracey78

Does anyone know what effect a casino's decision to occasionally allow wagers over the posted table maximum would have, if any?

The game is still negative EV to the player, so exceeding the maximum only increases the drop for the house. It also allows the house a shot at getting all their losses back in one fell swoop, something they are happy to do.

Occassionally, it doesn't go the house's way (MGM lost 20+ million dollars to an Australian Blackjack whale, Tropicana AC recently lost tens of millions to BJ players), but they wouldn't do it if the edge wasn't always tilted in their favor.

Quote: Tiltpoul

Horseshoe is a good example of a casino regularly offering higher than posted table minimums.

Care to elaborate on this? Also, there have been cases of casinos allowing wagers over the posted max and only "noticing" it when the player hits a big hand. In one anecdote, a player was betting twice the posted maximum on a side bet, which went completely unnoticed by the floor supervisor who was watching the game until the player actually hit a big payout, at which point the supervisor of course insisted on only paying out the wager maximum portion of the bet. Classy! Kind of like those great folks running the show during the recent dice sliding scam. They only seemed to notice once the cheaters started winning!

I think the "Horseshoe" Tiltpoul is talking about was the original, when Benny Binion was still alive and running it.

He was famous for taking any size bet with the proviso that when asked, the new limit would be the size of the next bet.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I think the "Horseshoe" Tiltpoul is talking about was the original, when Benny Binion was still alive and running it.

He was famous for taking any size bet with the proviso that when asked, the new limit would be the size of the next bet.

No, actually if what they advertise is true, at ANY Horseshoe (now owned by CET) you can request higher limits. I'm sure that the Indiana properties probably have provisions on how high those limits can be, but I would not be surprised if MS, IA and LA allow sky limits with a call to respective gaming offices to grant the highest maximum.

I really don't think the issue comes up ALL that often... they start at higher maximums than area averages anyways.

I stand partially corrected. Benny WAS known for it as I stated. I guess all Horseshoe casinos now carry on with that tradition.

FYI: From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Binion#Casino_years

Quote: Wikipedia

In 1951, he purchased the Eldorado Club and the Apache Hotel, opening them as Binion's Horseshoe casino, which immediately became popular because of the high limits on bets. He initially set a craps table limit of $500, ten times higher than the limit at his competitors of the time. Because of the competition, Binion sometimes received death threats, although eventually casinos raised their limits to keep up with him. Additionally, the Horseshoe would honor a bet of any size as long as it was the first one made.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I stand partially corrected. Benny WAS known for it as I stated. I guess all Horseshoe casinos now carry on with that tradition.

At Horseshoe Southern Indiana, they have a neat history on the ramp to the casino. They talk about the infamous "Suitcase man" who reportedly set a briefcase down on the Don't Pass Line, and they booked the bet without counting the money. He was something like 777,000 dollars after three rolls (according to the pictorial). They even have a little video of what it might have looked like.

I heard somewhere that the story is absolutely true, but that the facts often get distorted (some say it was a million dollars). The publicity surrounded by the legend helped solidify Horseshoe as a player for years to come.

Quote: Tiltpoul

I heard somewhere that the story is absolutely true, but that the facts often get distorted (some say it was a million dollars).

The way I heard the story many years ago, the man had called them in advance and asked whether they would accept a $1 million wager if he showed up with the cash. He was told that they would indeed. There was some delay, then he appeared without further notice and carrying something less than the full million. When casino reps (perhaps Binion?) spoke to the press, they said they assumed that he hadn't been able to pull all the cash together at that moment.

My recollection, from back when I first heard this, is that the casino said that he won, they paid him, and he left. The implication was that they didn't bother to determine who he was or whether the original money actually belonged to him. I don't know whether any requirement (such as an equivalent of a CTR) might have existed at that time.