UTH - To bet or not if triplecopied preflop?

During collusion or just being observant, its easy to see other players holdings preflop. I need strategy tips for hands like:

1: I have A-Q and I see one player has the same hand and another has an A. I am triplecopied so I assume I check the hand rather than betting 4x ?
What's the strategy and is there a difference if the triplecopy is for a high hand like K-Q vs. for a smaller hand like J-10 ? Or K-Q vs. A-4...in this case I'd be more concerned with a tripcopied K or Q than a 4 since a pair of 4's in the end is easier for the dealer to beat. Seems there MUST be a difference in odds in regards to the strength of my 2 cards.

2: I have 5-5 and player next to me has the same hand. At Discountgambling.net I am advised to bet any pair of 5's or higher even tho the pair is copied. Hmm, isnt a pair of 5's that cant improve, too much of an underdog to justify a 4x bet ?? I would bet a copied pair of A-A since its top pair and a favorite but I'd like to see the numbers copied pairs.

Are there instances where a DOUBLEcopied preflop-playable hand should be checked instead of going in with a 4x bet ?

In Denmark there are 7 players at a full table, not 6 as in the states.

Thanks in advance from
Stan
Denmark

Let me state first and foremost this is not a mathematical analysis at all... rather, after playing many hours of this game, these are my feelings on such hands hold up and what to do. Take it with a grain of salt.

Quote: Stan

During collusion or just being observant, its easy to see other players holdings preflop. I need strategy tips for hands like:

1: I have A-Q and I see one player has the same hand and another has an A. I am triplecopied so I assume I check the hand rather than betting 4x ?
What's the strategy and is there a difference if the triplecopy is for a high hand like K-Q vs. for a smaller hand like J-10 ? Or K-Q vs. A-4...in this case I'd be more concerned with a tripcopied K or Q than a 4 since a pair of 4's in the end is easier for the dealer to beat. Seems there MUST be a difference in odds in regards to the strength of my 2 cards.

Remember that most of the time the dealer will not have a pair unless it is on the board. The kicker is the most important card, and in this case, with all the aces out that's good for your hand. I understand what you're saying, and I would tend to believe that KQ, J10 and those hands without an A would be better to check rather than 4x. But the Ace is a power card, regardless, so I'd take my chances and still 4-bet.

Quote: Stan

2: I have 5-5 and player next to me has the same hand. At Discountgambling.net I am advised to bet any pair of 5's or higher even tho the pair is copied. Hmm, isnt a pair of 5's that cant improve, too much of an underdog to justify a 4x bet ?? I would bet a copied pair of A-A since its top pair and a favorite but I'd like to see the numbers copied pairs.

I would actually have to agree with you on the feeling that 5s are simply not strong, especially if the board double-pairs. My instinct here though factors in trips on the board (making you a full-house) and instances where your 5s each make a straight (or flush). In those cases, the benefits of 4x probably narrowly outweigh the negatives described.

Quote: Stan

Are there instances where a DOUBLEcopied preflop-playable hand should be checked instead of going in with a 4x bet ?

In Denmark there are 7 players at a full table, not 6 as in the states.

Thanks in advance from
Stan
Denmark

I would guess the only time it would completely make sense to check is with a dealer flash of the cards. If you can see the flop and one of the hole cards, you wouldn't want to bet if you know there is already a pair.

Again, I may be totally wrong on all of this. I like this thread and want to get it top-posted, but those are my ramblings.

If you know your opponents cards then you can bet whatever you want. If you have the same 2 cards as your opponenet then you will be in total control after the flop. If you both hit big you can eventually chop the pot. If you both miss you can bluff him out. Give me deuce seven off suit and the ability to see my ops hand every time.

Quote: SOOPOO

If you know your opponents cards then you can bet whatever you want. If you have the same 2 cards as your opponenet then you will be in total control after the flop. If you both hit big you can eventually chop the pot. If you both miss you can bluff him out. Give me deuce seven off suit and the ability to see my ops hand every time.

No, he's talking about the table game Ultimate Texas Hold Em. I think you're talking about regular poker.

Quote: Tiltpoul

No, he's talking about the table game Ultimate Texas Hold Em. I think you're talking about regular poker.

Thank you for showing me the light....

Tiltpoul, I do believe its a question of math since odds change based on my new knowledge of other players cards. When knowing that 3-4 or x number of cards have been dealt, odds change.

Your thoughts on me having an A and all other A's gone, I am still not sure the NEW odds would justify a 4x bet. It takes out 4 cards which I would suggest makes it more probable for the dealer to make a pair. There are no single Aces left to 'clog' up his chances of hitting even tho I do realize that he cant have topkicker in case board pairs up and he doesnt make a pair himself. With for instance A-4, I can pair the 4 and have top kicker but 4-4 is a lot easier to beat for the dealer than a high pair.

For the copied 5-5 hand, I also think there is not enough equity in the possibilty to improve to a straight/flush/house which would deem it a 4x bet. A copied K-K or A-A, I would bet for sure since those are top pairs. EV for those copied high pairs must also drop dramatically when knowing you cant hit a 3rd K or A but playable nonetheless I am sure.

Thanks for yout take and reply on my questions :-)

I would sure like to see some math/odds for my examples, or just some simple pointers on preflop strategy, especially from the Maestro himself.

No problem...

As I said, my analysis is based on numerous hours of playing the game, instead of any math.

I am still going to hold by my statement on the Ace. The board pairs something like 40% of the time, and when that happens, it makes it less likely that the dealer will pair up any of those cards. Two pair makes it even better for the player in that case.

I would agree that the 5-5 or lower play is marginal... I would even add 66 and 77 into the mix on that discussion. Low pairs have the possibility of being counterfeited.

I'm heading to Vegas this weekend... I might check out and see if there are still any good Trips bets out there (last time I was there, Bally's had the <1% table.

Discount Gambling