dcjohn
dcjohn
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 22
Joined: Oct 19, 2019
December 16th, 2022 at 1:03:39 AM permalink
There's a magician who does card tricks on TikTok and youtube, what appears to be skilled sleight of hand.

He presents a trick that anyone can do, claiming it is "math" and works automatically like some tricks do.

However, it's clear to me that the trick will not work most of the time but will work occasionally just by luck.

Most of the comments claim it works, maybe because they think they have screwed up each time it doesn't work.

I'll include a link to his defensive video and my proof that it does not always work below.

But there is an interesting math problem involved. What is the probability that it will work given a randomized deck?

(Note to find the answer you will have to impose some restraints that he doesn't mention. For example the final count has to be within the remaining cards for the fourth match. You'll see.)

Short video explaining and defending it:
Sorry, I can't post a link to the video and summarizing the procedure myself would be error prone. You can find it with the youtube title "Card Magic: More INCREDIBLE Self-Working EASY magic that ANYONE can do!"

Proof it doesn't always work, though it's intuitive enough:

From top of deck down...
Js,6s,Qh,10h,Ac,3c
(stop on 3c, write 3 and 6)
2d,8d,2h,Qd,Ks,Kd,10d,4d,5s,3h
(write 10)
5h,10s,Qs,Ad,Jh,5c,3s
(write 7)
3+6+10+7=26
4c,As,Kh,7h,6c,2s,5d,10c,Ah,9h,
Jd,8c,4h,7s,Qc,9d,9c,Jc,9s,2c,3d
(notice the fourth 3 is at position 21, NOT 26)
The remaining cards:
Kc,7c,8h,8s,6d,7d,6h,4s
(note 52 cards, all included, all unique - set them up yourself)

Have at it! I'm sure it's interesting enough and subtle enough for this bunch. And learning the answer will shed light on why so many believe it works.
Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
  • Threads: 16
  • Posts: 5609
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
December 16th, 2022 at 1:38:54 AM permalink
Is this the original video?

https://youtu.be/KQcvQ1expvU

May the cards fall in your favor.
dcjohn
dcjohn
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 22
Joined: Oct 19, 2019
December 16th, 2022 at 1:51:43 AM permalink
Yes. That is the original. Thanks for posting it.
The one with the title I quoted was a follow-up that repeats the trick almost identically basically defending it as working 100% after people like myself questioned it in comments. For the purpose of understanding the trick, I think both are equivalent and your link should be all that is needed.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1496
  • Posts: 26619
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
December 16th, 2022 at 3:52:40 AM permalink
I tried it twice and it didn't work either time.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1496
  • Posts: 26619
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
December 16th, 2022 at 8:04:40 AM permalink
Per forum policy, one can bump a thread if they tell a joke.

What is the difference between a poorly-dressed person on a bicycle and a well-dressed person on a unicycle?

Attire
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
TigerWu
TigerWu
  • Threads: 26
  • Posts: 5634
Joined: May 23, 2016
December 16th, 2022 at 9:31:42 AM permalink
It's a joke video... you can tell he's doing some kind of false/stacking shuffles and cuts at the beginning.

He's a hell of a magician, though.

EDIT: Just watched the follow-up video. He is definitely doing some kind of shuffle stacking. It's just a joke and everyone in the comments is going along with it....LOL Kind of funny.
Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
  • Threads: 16
  • Posts: 5609
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
December 16th, 2022 at 11:35:55 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

It's a joke video... you can tell he's doing some kind of false/stacking shuffles and cuts at the beginning.

He's a hell of a magician, though.

EDIT: Just watched the follow-up video. He is definitely doing some kind of shuffle stacking. It's just a joke and everyone in the comments is going along with it....LOL Kind of funny.
link to original post



Well, one of the common guidelines is not giving it away.
Working out the puzzle is more fun than looking at the answer key. ;)
May the cards fall in your favor.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1496
  • Posts: 26619
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
December 16th, 2022 at 12:22:16 PM permalink
I'm fine fooling people with a magic trick, but not audience stooges. I just made a comment on the video saying the same thing.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1496
  • Posts: 26619
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
December 16th, 2022 at 3:10:03 PM permalink
Here is how to do this trick. Note that it will probably NOT work with a random deck.

  1. Pick a value for x, approximately 20.
  2. Separate the four ranks of any rank of your choice.
  3. Separate out x-2 of the rest of the other 48 cards.
  4. Add two of the cards from step 2 to the stack from step 3 and mix together. Then place face up.
  5. Add to the top of the pile from step 4 a third card from step 2.
  6. Add any x cards to the top of the pile from step 5.
  7. Add the fourth card from step 2 to the top of the pile.
  8. Turn the whole pile from step 7 upside down
  9. Do the trick as seen in the video, pretending the rank chose in step 1 is chosen arbitrarily.
Last edited by: Wizard on Dec 16, 2022
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
dcjohn
dcjohn
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 22
Joined: Oct 19, 2019
December 16th, 2022 at 3:17:37 PM permalink
So it sounds like the consensus is that it's just a joke and those supporting it are insincere and intentionally helping to gaslight viewers.

No one thinks some of the commenters are sincere and do it again and again until it works, believing they kept screwing up? (plausible imo if it works one time in ten or so)

Ok. If so, it's less interesting and frankly just kind of trashy. The guy is talented and many of his followers are bright and inquisitive like people here, so I thought there might be more to it.

I don't imagine his goal is to alienate his followers or turn his commenters into unquestioning drones, but sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one.
TigerWu
TigerWu
  • Threads: 26
  • Posts: 5634
Joined: May 23, 2016
Thanked by
dcjohn
December 16th, 2022 at 3:29:04 PM permalink
I've seen several of this guy's videos before. He's an insanely talented magician, and a common thread among a lot of commenters on his videos is that he's cheating or doing video edits or whatever. He is known for doing a lot of "debunking" videos, where people have challenged him to do something to prove he's not cheating and he does it, proving it's all slight of hand. He's a very smooth talker and seems to enjoy proving his doubters wrong.

These two videos of "self-working" card tricks fit his persona of having a very dry sense of humor and taking the piss out of people who doubt his abilities. He is definitely showing off here and getting his followers and fans in on the joke. I honestly don't care much for his "style" but there is no doubt he's an amazing card mechanic.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1496
  • Posts: 26619
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
Thanked by
dcjohn
December 16th, 2022 at 3:52:46 PM permalink
That video pushes the limits of what I consider to be ethical magic. I admit I embellish the truth a bit sometimes, but I tone it in a certain way and it's only in the interests of showmanship. If I say the cards are shuffled, they truly are.

The comments in the video really take it too far in screwing with the audience. I think I'm going to leave a comment in the video explaining how it's really done.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
dcjohn
dcjohn
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 22
Joined: Oct 19, 2019
December 16th, 2022 at 8:00:48 PM permalink
My comment proving it does not work is no longer visible. And the Wizard said he replied and that is not visible in the comments to either YouTube video either.

So perhaps he is just moderating out all those comments who say the truth, or doing something abusive like reporting them as spam or something to youtube. Not being a YouTube publisher I don't know how hard or easy it would be to delete all comments you don't like.
Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
  • Threads: 16
  • Posts: 5609
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
December 17th, 2022 at 12:15:52 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

I've seen several of this guy's videos before. He's an insanely talented magician, and a common thread among a lot of commenters on his videos is that he's cheating or doing video edits or whatever. He is known for doing a lot of "debunking" videos, where people have challenged him to do something to prove he's not cheating and he does it, proving it's all slight of hand. He's a very smooth talker and seems to enjoy proving his doubters wrong.

These two videos of "self-working" card tricks fit his persona of having a very dry sense of humor and taking the piss out of people who doubt his abilities. He is definitely showing off here and getting his followers and fans in on the joke. I honestly don't care much for his "style" but there is no doubt he's an amazing card mechanic.
link to original post



"Patter" is an absolutely essential part of misdirection in the performance.
I agree that not every shuffle creates a random result.

Based on the target audience - people who voluntarily watch card trick tutorial videos - I think it's a fine trick.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1496
  • Posts: 26619
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
Thanked by
dcjohn
December 21st, 2022 at 11:59:51 AM permalink
Quote: dcjohn

My comment proving it does not work is no longer visible. And the Wizard said he replied and that is not visible in the comments to either YouTube video either.

So perhaps he is just moderating out all those comments who say the truth, or doing something abusive like reporting them as spam or something to youtube. Not being a YouTube publisher I don't know how hard or easy it would be to delete all comments you don't like.
link to original post



My comment is still there four days after I posted it. Here it is, "I tried it three times and it failed all three. I suspect it's an prearranged deck and a very careful shuffle. Those claiming it works with a fair shuffle are audience stooges." It was in reply to this version.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
avianrandy
avianrandy
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1617
Joined: Mar 7, 2010
December 21st, 2022 at 1:06:47 PM permalink
An excellent card trick I watched on YouTube this morning was by 6thgrader Zoe Lafleur onpenn and tellers fool us.2019 season 6 episode 7. They figured it out but were very impressed. Not sure how to post YouTube link to video or I would.someone with moreteck experience can do this
TigerWu
TigerWu
  • Threads: 26
  • Posts: 5634
Joined: May 23, 2016
December 21st, 2022 at 1:57:06 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard



My comment is still there four days after I posted it. Here it is, "I tried it three times and it failed all three. I suspect it's an prearranged deck and a very careful shuffle. Those claiming it works with a fair shuffle are audience stooges." It was in reply to this version.
link to original post



I don't see your comment on that video.... ??

I've also noticed he has several other videos of "self-working" card tricks that are obviously card manipulation. I'm not sure what his point is in posting these videos, other than just trying to punk his viewers. Seems kind of dickish, if you ask me, but like I said earlier, I don't really care for his style.
dcjohn
dcjohn
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 22
Joined: Oct 19, 2019
December 21st, 2022 at 2:59:18 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard


My comment is still there four days after I posted it. Here it is, "I tried it three times and it failed all three. I suspect it's an prearranged deck and a very careful shuffle. Those claiming it works with a fair shuffle are audience stooges." It was in reply to this version.
link to original post


It's not visible to me today on the video at the link you provided. The comment count is 24. All the visible comments are 'stooges' or neutral. I wonder if he has a way to make certain comments only visible to the person who posted it. That might be how moderation works, in order to avoid debates. ???
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1496
  • Posts: 26619
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
December 21st, 2022 at 8:08:15 PM permalink
Quote: dcjohn

It's not visible to me today on the video at the link you provided. The comment count is 24. All the visible comments are 'stooges' or neutral. I wonder if he has a way to make certain comments only visible to the person who posted it. That might be how moderation works, in order to avoid debates. ???
link to original post



Currently, it's the second most recent comment on this video. My YouTube name is TheOddsMustBeCrazy.

My newsletter for tomorrow is about that video.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1496
  • Posts: 26619
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
Thanked by
onenickelmiracle
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:19:28 AM permalink
I got a PM suggesting my comment may be hidden from everyone but me. I guess that's possible. Here is how it appears to me.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
avianrandy
avianrandy
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1617
Joined: Mar 7, 2010
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:56:41 AM permalink
I don't see your comment either. If I click on show more replies,only comment is by Abdullah asking if we should use the joker's. Don't know much about YouTube policies either,but some seems to be going on that is deceptive besides the card trick. 24 comments in total also
ChesterDog
ChesterDog
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1566
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
December 22nd, 2022 at 6:07:44 AM permalink
Here's what I see after I sort by "Newest first."



Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1496
  • Posts: 26619
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
Thanked by
avianrandy
December 22nd, 2022 at 8:39:31 AM permalink
I suggest all of us keep posting comments to his video that it's a big hoax, just to keep Jason (the magician) busy busting them.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
avianrandy
avianrandy
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1617
Joined: Mar 7, 2010
December 22nd, 2022 at 9:03:58 AM permalink
Will be my holiday gift to you
avianrandy
avianrandy
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1617
Joined: Mar 7, 2010
December 22nd, 2022 at 9:17:41 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: dcjohn

It's not visible to me today on the video at the link you provided. The comment count is 24. All the visible comments are 'stooges' or neutral. I wonder if he has a way to make certain comments only visible to the person who posted it. That might be how moderation works, in order to avoid debates. ???
link to original post



Currently, it's the second most recent comment on this video. My YouTube name is TheOddsMustBeCrazy.

My newsletter for tomorrow is about that video.
link to original post

how do I subscribe to your newsletter? Any charge for it?
dcjohn
dcjohn
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 22
Joined: Oct 19, 2019
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:53:25 PM permalink
Apparently, we can only see our own comments. That's not magic in my book. I wonder if that is a violation of YouTube terms of service.
Last edited by: dcjohn on Dec 22, 2022
dcjohn
dcjohn
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 22
Joined: Oct 19, 2019
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:58:26 PM permalink
I looked into "Report"ing his video as "Misinformation" but it says to report only videos that can cause "egregious harm" and that's clearly not the case.
Last edited by: dcjohn on Dec 22, 2022
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1496
  • Posts: 26619
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
Thanked by
dcjohnavianrandy
December 22nd, 2022 at 5:36:35 PM permalink
Quote: avianrandy

how do I subscribe to your newsletter? Any charge for it?
link to original post



Here is my Dec 22, 2022 newsletter about the video.

You can get on the mailing list here.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
dcjohn
dcjohn
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 22
Joined: Oct 19, 2019
December 24th, 2022 at 9:50:24 AM permalink
Nice newsletter article, Very thorough.

He has definitely taken notice. Unfortunately, he's just doubling down and enjoying the added views and attention.

See the next post for the link to his latest video YouTube "Card Magic: Self-Working Math Magic Trick EXPOSED"
Last edited by: dcjohn on Dec 24, 2022
Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
  • Threads: 16
  • Posts: 5609
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
Thanked by
dcjohn
December 24th, 2022 at 11:02:37 AM permalink
Quote: dcjohn


I can't post the link to the latest reply. It's titled "Card Magic: Self-Working Math Magic Trick EXPOSED"

hope this is ok since it is on topic:
https(colon slash slash)youtu(dot)be(slash)PVv_s1Ki6mU
link to original post



May the cards fall in your favor.
TigerWu
TigerWu
  • Threads: 26
  • Posts: 5634
Joined: May 23, 2016
December 24th, 2022 at 12:08:02 PM permalink
I'm not sure what tack he's trying to take with these latest "self-working" videos... It seems like it's just going to alienate new or would-be magicians who see this and get frustrated when the "trick" doesn't work for them. It just seems like kind of a jerk move to show off your skills in this way.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1496
  • Posts: 26619
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
December 24th, 2022 at 3:32:09 PM permalink
Here is my comment left on his third video. Let's see how long it lasts. Since they still appear visible to me, please let me know if he busts it.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
dcjohn
dcjohn
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 22
Joined: Oct 19, 2019
December 24th, 2022 at 3:57:34 PM permalink
Your comment is already gone, or blocked (within about an hour). I hope he's not spending Christmas eve activity deleting comment that only praise him in ways he deserves.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1496
  • Posts: 26619
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
December 24th, 2022 at 5:17:45 PM permalink
Quote: dcjohn

Your comment is already gone, or blocked (within about an hour). I hope he's not spending Christmas eve activity deleting comment that only praise him in ways he deserves.
link to original post



Let's just keep posting comments. It's a matter of which side has more determination.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Dieter
Administrator
Dieter
  • Threads: 16
  • Posts: 5609
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
December 24th, 2022 at 7:34:34 PM permalink
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9483359?hl=en

One of the settings is "Hold all comments for review".
You may be attempting a Sisyphean endeavour.
May the cards fall in your favor.
dcjohn
dcjohn
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 22
Joined: Oct 19, 2019
December 25th, 2022 at 7:18:15 PM permalink
That seems to explain it. He can set "Hold All Comments for Review" and then "Remove" any that contradict him.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1496
  • Posts: 26619
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
December 25th, 2022 at 8:57:55 PM permalink
I'm planning to do a combined magic trick and rant about this my next Live Stream on Jan 5.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
  • Jump to: