s23taylor
Joined: Dec 23, 2015
• Posts: 2
February 12th, 2020 at 8:40:37 PM permalink
I came across an interesting craps betting strategy online (see youtube link below) called the hedge 6/8 strategy and I was wondering if combining various bets raises/lowers the house edge and/or variance, both in general and for this particular "system". Unfortunately I don't know how to do the math to calculate the house edge for the system or just in general when placing multiple bets. Is there a primer anywhere on this math? I tried the forum search but didn't find anything.

A brief overview of the strategy, \$10 is bet on the don't pass for the come out roll, followed with \$6 place bets on the 6 and 8 when a point is established. At this point you are hoping 6 and 8 shows to win your place bets. If a seven does show up and you lose your place bets, the don't pass hedges your loss and you only lose \$2. If the point number is made you'll lose your don't pass bet, and leave out your place bets. Obviously a hot roll will allow you to press your 6 and 8 place bets and also place the 5 and 9.

To me it seems like utilizing the low house edge bets in a hedging manor like this would allow someone to play for a long time with a limited bankroll for average length rolls, while allowing a decent win on hot rolls.

/watch?v=8rajuvwpnek&list=PLBdiwFrZBsxODKaV8RoTYentFgYwET88P (P.S. Ignore the corny title and how crazy hot his rolls are, I know craps is a -EV game)

P.S. I wasn't quite sure what section to post this in (Betting systems, Craps, Math, or Other) so please move if appropriate.
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
• Posts: 14229
February 12th, 2020 at 10:28:47 PM permalink
Quote: s23taylor

I came across an interesting craps betting strategy online (see youtube link below) called the hedge 6/8 strategy and I was wondering if combining various bets raises/lowers the house edge and/or variance, both in general and for this particular "system". Unfortunately I don't know how to do the math to calculate the house edge for the system or just in general when placing multiple bets. Is there a primer anywhere on this math? I tried the forum search but didn't find anything.

A brief overview of the strategy, \$10 is bet on the don't pass for the come out roll, followed with \$6 place bets on the 6 and 8 when a point is established. At this point you are hoping 6 and 8 shows to win your place bets. If a seven does show up and you lose your place bets, the don't pass hedges your loss and you only lose \$2. If the point number is made you'll lose your don't pass bet, and leave out your place bets. Obviously a hot roll will allow you to press your 6 and 8 place bets and also place the 5 and 9.

To me it seems like utilizing the low house edge bets in a hedging manor like this would allow someone to play for a long time with a limited bankroll for average length rolls, while allowing a decent win on hot rolls.

/watch?v=8rajuvwpnek&list=PLBdiwFrZBsxODKaV8RoTYentFgYwET88P (P.S. Ignore the corny title and how crazy hot his rolls are, I know craps is a -EV game)

P.S. I wasn't quite sure what section to post this in (Betting systems, Craps, Math, or Other) so please move if appropriate.

Hi s23taylor. Youll get more precise answers from the math guys, i think, but in general.

Every bet on a craps table has its own house edge. Adding them together doesn't change the house edge of any of them.

Depending on how the dice run, it might let you lose more slowly with some hedgjng/offsetting bets placed. But it can also just eat up your bankroll faster, too.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
• Posts: 2114
February 12th, 2020 at 11:50:37 PM permalink
^ Totally correct for Craps, Roulette and similar games. While the result of each bet may be connected with the other, the House Edge still operates on all bets. Sometimes people bet FOR and AGAINST but forget the house makes its money either from the Push taking one of the bets or the odds payable not being true odds (e.g. Six paying 7/6 and against 4/5 (UK odds)).

As a general rule you shouldn't hedge your bets.

When I read the heading I thought you might be talking about some Blackjack side-bets where your play (and hence House Edge) can be affected by these, e.g. in the UK playing Hou\$e Money you would double 11 vs 10 if you had a side bet but not otherwise.
standbymyman
Joined: Feb 13, 2015
• Posts: 182
February 13th, 2020 at 8:49:37 AM permalink
Quote: s23taylor

I came across an interesting craps betting strategy online (see youtube link below) called the hedge 6/8 strategy and I was wondering if combining various bets raises/lowers the house edge and/or variance, both in general and for this particular "system". Unfortunately I don't know how to do the math to calculate the house edge for the system or just in general when placing multiple bets. Is there a primer anywhere on this math? I tried the forum search but didn't find anything.

A brief overview of the strategy, \$10 is bet on the don't pass for the come out roll, followed with \$6 place bets on the 6 and 8 when a point is established. At this point you are hoping 6 and 8 shows to win your place bets. If a seven does show up and you lose your place bets, the don't pass hedges your loss and you only lose \$2. If the point number is made you'll lose your don't pass bet, and leave out your place bets. Obviously a hot roll will allow you to press your 6 and 8 place bets and also place the 5 and 9.

To me it seems like utilizing the low house edge bets in a hedging manor like this would allow someone to play for a long time with a limited bankroll for average length rolls, while allowing a decent win on hot rolls.

/watch?v=8rajuvwpnek&list=PLBdiwFrZBsxODKaV8RoTYentFgYwET88P (P.S. Ignore the corny title and how crazy hot his rolls are, I know craps is a -EV game)

P.S. I wasn't quite sure what section to post this in (Betting systems, Craps, Math, or Other) so please move if appropriate.

Should have gone in the "more useless strategies" thread
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
• Posts: 1977
February 13th, 2020 at 9:28:48 AM permalink
Quote: s23taylor

I came across an interesting craps betting strategy online

are not all these 'interesting' strategies?
Quote: s23taylor

called the...

no need to give it a name
Quote: s23taylor

and I was wondering if combining various bets raises/lowers the house edge

a combined house edge could be lower than the individual bets but it depends on things as 'per roll' or 'per bet resolved'
apples to apples thing.

you should really be more interested in the expected value of, say, this interesting 'system' per roll.
every place bet and don't pass bet are not contract bets
so one can use any type of 'mystic' feelings to turn off bets and watch the sky and never lose.
Got that from a youtube craps video that was not at all interesting
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009