pacman720
pacman720
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 20
September 29th, 2010 at 2:15:06 PM permalink
I am a Slot Director and I'm having a hard time getting my head around how much coin in Freeplay has an effect on my machines. I go round & round with the Marketing Director on how much FreePlay he is giving out each month and how it is eroding my hold%. We use the ATI Oasis Tracking System so you ( at this point in time) still earn points while using freeplay..so as you see it can effect the coin-in tremendously.. I can use a simple method and add the amount of freeplay back into the daily win # and get a general idea on how it effects the hold% ( in my case it erodes 1% from the total)..but i still have no idea how to calculate how it effects the coin-in for that machine...
Any Ideas?
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
  • Threads: 88
  • Posts: 6526
September 29th, 2010 at 2:27:04 PM permalink
Are you charging the free play against the marketing or the gaming budget? Where/how you account for promo dollars has an impact on your win numbers. Most places, from what I'm aware, don't award points on free play. Yours does, so you need to account for that. It sounds to me like you're not adding free play wagers to total coin in and as a result the coin out is higher (relatively) than the par sheet would indicate.

Apologies to the rest of the forum if I'm out of line here, but I handle issues like this for a living. PM me if you want to talk in more detail and I'll introduce myself properly.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
September 29th, 2010 at 3:33:07 PM permalink
I've listened to back-and-forth debates about this sort of thing all the time. The basic problem is that two departments are looking at the same expenditures in different ways.

From the point of view of the slot department, $20 free play loaded into the machine by a customer should be treated EXACTLY the same as a $20 bill loaded into the machine by that same customer. In each case, something of value is exchanged for $20 worth of machine credits.

The casino marketing department should consider free play (that is actually used) to be a straight marketing expense that is equivalent to the face value of the free play. The casnio then recaptures some of that value when the patron actually uses it; in the same way that a $20 bill run through a slot machine that returns 90% turns into $2 for the casino and $18 for the player, $20 in free play transforms into $18 for the player and $2 for the casino.

If you treat free play as equivalent to other forms of coin-in, then your hold figures won't be distorted. if you do interdepartmental bookkeeping, then free play is debited as a promotional expense, and the offsetting credit is to the slot department as coin-in. That will create the accurate assessment that the excess coin-out is equated to promotional expense. It's not unlike the portion of the bar tab that goes to comped drinks; if F&B didn't record this as a promotional expense, the profit figures for that department would be distorted.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1403
  • Posts: 23731
September 29th, 2010 at 4:01:53 PM permalink
It would help if we had some numbers, for the sake of example, to chew on. For example, what of these can you tell us:

1. Money in.
2. Money out.
3. Total amount bet.
4. Total amount won.
5. Return percentage.
6. Free play given out.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
pacman720
pacman720
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 20
September 30th, 2010 at 12:37:20 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

It would help if we had some numbers, for the sake of example, to chew on. For example, what of these can you tell us:

1. Money in.
2. Money out.
3. Total amount bet.
4. Total amount won.
5. Return percentage.
6. Free play given out.



Here are some numbers from one section of our casino ( it had a bad day for us good for the players LOL)

the section holds 340 machines..video reels , video poker , stepper reel games, mult-game ( IGT's Game King)
The denominations run from Penny to 5 Dollar...

Coin -In 419,510.13
Gross Drop 136,716.36
Attendant paid out/Voucher out 131,423.14
Net Win 5,293.22
PBT ( FreePlay) used 8,671
Statistical Net win ( net win + PBT used) 13,964.22
Actual Hold% ( It uses statisitcal net win divided by Coin-In) 3.32%
Par 5.50%

As you can see if we had held par the net win would of been 23,073


I just wonder how much that 8,671 in PBT used effected the coin in...
If you play the freeplay to the end..(i.e. downloading 20$ in PBT and playing it to zero) on say a penny video reel that has a 9% hold pct. how much coin-in does that generate?
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
September 30th, 2010 at 1:52:33 PM permalink
I would admit that the Slot Department doesn't much care about anything except the twenty dollar bill being inserted into the machine. If the person earned the bill, stole it, found it, was given it as a gift or whatever, its just twenty dollars into the machine, that is all it is.

The Marketing Department with its hosts and mailers is the one that cares about the FreePlay. Its like those old jukebox quarters with nail polish on them: they are "bar quarters" used to get the evening started to to comp a good drinker to some music, they are not income to the juke box. If an actual twenty dollar bill had been given to a player, would the casino book it as two dollars? Its a marketing expense, just as a bus charter to bring the gambler to the casino.

Why are the slot figures being adjusted for the free play but not for the bus charter?
pacman720
pacman720
Joined: Sep 29, 2010
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 20
September 30th, 2010 at 3:00:30 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

I would admit that the Slot Department doesn't much care about anything except the twenty dollar bill being inserted into the machine. If the person earned the bill, stole it, found it, was given it as a gift or whatever, its just twenty dollars into the machine, that is all it is.

The Marketing Department with its hosts and mailers is the one that cares about the FreePlay. Its like those old jukebox quarters with nail polish on them: they are "bar quarters" used to get the evening started to to comp a good drinker to some music, they are not income to the juke box. If an actual twenty dollar bill had been given to a player, would the casino book it as two dollars? Its a marketing expense, just as a bus charter to bring the gambler to the casino.

Why are the slot figures being adjusted for the free play but not for the bus charter?



I agree it is a marketing expense ..It's given to a player to get them into the casino,,hoping they spend more than the say.. $20 in FreePlay they have been given.
What I need is some math to figure out how that "invisible" 20$ ( The machine sees freeplay as $$ put into the machine does'nt know it really was'nt a "real $20 bill)
affects the coin-in..and hold% ...and the eventual "win" for that machine. I report to the GM and trying to explain to him why the Hold % & win per day is down is getting trying.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1403
  • Posts: 23731
September 30th, 2010 at 9:32:10 PM permalink
Quote: pacman720


Coin -In 419,510.13
Gross Drop 136,716.36
Attendant paid out/Voucher out 131,423.14
Net Win 5,293.22
PBT ( FreePlay) used 8,671
Statistical Net win ( net win + PBT used) 13,964.22
Actual Hold% ( It uses statisitcal net win divided by Coin-In) 3.32%
Par 5.50%



What is the difference between the coin-in and the gross drop? In other words, what does each term mean?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
  • Threads: 88
  • Posts: 6526
September 30th, 2010 at 10:55:13 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

What is the difference between the coin-in and the gross drop? In other words, what does each term mean?



Coin-in, a.k.a. total handle, is the reported meter values across all machines. Coin-out is not reported, but you can calculate it as coin-in - net win = 414216.91.

Gross drop = cash + vouchers in.
Gross drop - (cash/voucher out) also equals net win, which you can see from lines 2-4.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
  • Threads: 88
  • Posts: 6526
September 30th, 2010 at 11:25:33 PM permalink
Quote: pacman720

Here are some numbers from one section of our casino ( it had a bad day for us good for the players LOL)

the section holds 340 machines..video reels , video poker , stepper reel games, mult-game ( IGT's Game King)
The denominations run from Penny to 5 Dollar...

Coin -In 419,510.13
Gross Drop 136,716.36
Attendant paid out/Voucher out 131,423.14
Net Win 5,293.22
PBT ( FreePlay) used 8,671
Statistical Net win ( net win + PBT used) 13,964.22
Actual Hold% ( It uses statisitcal net win divided by Coin-In) 3.32%
Par 5.50%

As you can see if we had held par the net win would of been 23,073


I just wonder how much that 8,671 in PBT used effected the coin in...
If you play the freeplay to the end..(i.e. downloading 20$ in PBT and playing it to zero) on say a penny video reel that has a 9% hold pct. how much coin-in does that generate?



Presumably PBT vouchers or meter-credits aren't distinguished in your aggregates above from cashless vouchers or cash. So if Gross Drop includes PBT, then PBT/Drop = 6.34%. 6.34% * coin-in = 26606.71. In other words, if you assume equal playthrough rates on cash, vouchers, and PBT (which may not be the case, but your back-office system should be able to give you actual numbers) then the 8,671 in PBT generates 26,606 in coin in.

I don't think your statistical net win figure is the right thing to use. Actual hold should just be net win / coin in, but I'm assuming drop includes PBT already and therefore net win already accounts for the results of any PBT play. That would put the actual hold% for the day at 1.26%, so you're right - you had a bad day by about 18k.

This is OASIS, right? I'm pretty sure OASIS lets you break things down in more detail than just the aggregate numbers, but I'd have to look at your reports to see. Again, send me a private message if you want to talk in more details.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563

  • Jump to: