help to understand the basic strategy for video poker
I am reading the basic strategy for one of the video poker game at wizard of odds
https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/jacks-or-better/9-6/simple/
There is said the strategy is applied for the 9/6 pay table so does it mean if switching to different pay table, the strategy should be different?
The strategy listed above suggests to hold those cards making the hand in the list or discard all cards. But it is confusing for some rules like
4. 4 to a straight flush
7. 3 to a royal flush
8. 4 to a flush
12. 3 to a straight flush
My first understanding on those rules are if the current hand contains any 4 (or 3) cards that may make a straight flush, royal flush or flush, hold those cards and discard the rest one. But by practicing the rule, I am lost. For those rules, for example,
"4 to a straight flush" does it mean any 4 cards must be consecutive and of the same suit? what happen if I get 3H 4H 6H 7H JS, is this applied to that rule?
Similar, for "3 to a royal flush", should that rule apply to "AD 9H JD QD KD" if A J Q K are not consecutive but with one card skipped?
The same applies to 3 to a royal flush. TJQ, TQK, JQK, TKA, etc. are all 3 to a royal.
Basically, just start at the top of the strategy chart, and say, "Is my hand a four of a kind, straight flush, or royal flush?" If it is one of those, hold it. If not, then go to #2, "is my hand a 4 to a royal flush?" if so, hold that. If not, go to #3, "is my hand a straight, flush, three of a kind, or full house?" if so, hold it, otherwise go to #4.....and down the list ya go.
Quote: RS4 to a straight flush is the same thing as being 1 card away from a straight flush. Doesn't matter if they are consecutive (4567) or if there's a gap (3467). Of course, a dealt straight or flush is better than 4 to a straight flush.
The same applies to 3 to a royal flush. TJQ, TQK, JQK, TKA, etc. are all 3 to a royal.
Basically, just start at the top of the strategy chart, and say, "Is my hand a four of a kind, straight flush, or royal flush?" If it is one of those, hold it. If not, then go to #2, "is my hand a 4 to a royal flush?" if so, hold that. If not, go to #3, "is my hand a straight, flush, three of a kind, or full house?" if so, hold it, otherwise go to #4.....and down the list ya go.
Thanks. For the second rule, "If not, then go to #2, "is my hand a 4 to a royal flush?" if so, hold that.
So do you mean to hold those 4 cards to a royal flush only? what about the rest one card? Discard it or hold it?
And I am not quite follow this rule "2 unsuited high cards (if more than 2 then pick the lowest 2)", my understanding is find any 2 dislike and unsuited high card (jack or better), if two of those cards found, hold it and discard the rest. But if more than 2 cards found, HOLD those two with lowest face values? Should it be opposite that to DISCARD those two with lowest face values?
Quote: konglifyThanks. For the second rule, "If not, then go to #2, "is my hand a 4 to a royal flush?" if so, hold that.
So do you mean to hold those 4 cards to a royal flush only? what about the rest one card? Discard it or hold it?
And I am not quite follow this rule "2 unsuited high cards (if more than 2 then pick the lowest 2)", my understanding is find any 2 dislike and unsuited high card (jack or better), if two of those cards found, hold it and discard the rest. But if more than 2 cards found, HOLD those two with lowest face values? Should it be opposite that to DISCARD those two with lowest face values?
For the second rule, you would never hold the fifth card... because then you have a losing hand. You hold the four royal cards and hope to draw the fifth royal card.
for the 2 unsuited high cards.... what they are saying is that if you have a hand like 2s 7c Jh Kd As then you would hold the Jh and Kd and discard the other three. the reason you want to do that is that holding JK allows for more straight possibilities on the draw than either JA or KA.
sorry, didn't see ibeatyouraces' response.
1) I know deuce plays as wild. However, if there is more than 2 deuces, can I separate the each deuce to replace different card or must all deuces replace the same face value if used?
For example, if I get 2 2 5 6 7, can I make a straight such that first 2 becomes 3 and the second 2 becomes 4?
What about A 2 2 4 5?
2) I think the the deuce only be wild of face value but not suit, am I correct?
Quote: konglifyBesides jacks or better, I am also learning the strategy for other video poker games. One of them I am looking is the deuce wild joker. But the game rule for the wild is not very clear to me. Two questions
1) I know deuce plays as wild. However, if there is more than 2 deuces, can I separate the each deuce to replace different card or must all deuces replace the same face value if used?
For example, if I get 2 2 5 6 7, can I make a straight such that first 2 becomes 3 and the second 2 becomes 4?
What about A 2 2 4 5?
2) I think the the deuce only be wild of face value but not suit, am I correct?
In the example I bolded, the two deuces would represent an 8 & 9 respectively, not that it matters though as the pay would be the same.
A2245 would be a straight as well, 5 high known as the "wheel."
And the deuce can represent a different suit too. As, Ks, Qs, 2h, 10s would be a wild royal where the 2h would represent the Js.
in 5h W W 6h 7h, you get credit for a straight flush, but you don't know which heart which of the wilds stand for. The two of them could represent 3h 4h; 4h 8h; or 8h 9h. You just don't know (and probably shouldn't care but if you want to feel bad that you just don't know, go ahead and feel bad.)
On a hand like Ah Ac Ad As W, you get paid for five of a kind (or five aces, in some games.) There is no suit for the fifth ace (perhaps the Ace of Stars?) but the five of a kind is a real pay schedule category.
On studying the deuces joker game --- I personally haven't seen many of these for a long time. If you know of a particular game at a particular casino that you want to learn to play, fine. But if you picked a game at random to study, this isn't a particularly good choice.
Finally, if you're in the Vegas area, stop by my Wednesday classes over the next three weeks at noon. This week is NSU Deuces Wild. The first class is for relative beginners --- and some of the things you've been asking about indicate there are some basics you just don't "get" yet and a class could help.
Bob
Quote: rsactuaryFor the second rule, you would never hold the fifth card... because then you have a losing hand. You hold the four royal cards and hope to draw the fifth royal card.
for the 2 unsuited high cards.... what they are saying is that if you have a hand like 2s 7c Jh Kd As then you would hold the Jh and Kd and discard the other three. the reason you want to do that is that holding JK allows for more straight possibilities on the draw than either JA or KA.
sorry, didn't see ibeatyouraces' response.
One more question about jacks or better strategy. I following the basic strategy and apply it on the same pay table as described in https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/jacks-or-better/9-6/simple/
But I got a 97% RTP instead of 99.45%, I some random hands with an online trainer here https://www.videopokertrainer.org/calculator/#Ad5d7dTs2c-bn-5-4000:250:400:200:125:40:25:20:15:10:5
and they match. I don't know if my code is messed up or my understanding on the rules are not complete. Let me explain my understanding on the strategy as below
1. Four of a kind, straight flush, royal flush
if I get any of above hand, hold all 5 cards
2. 4 to a royal flush
Try to find any 4 cards (doesn't have to be consecutive) of my hand makes partial royal flush, if so, hold those 4 cards and discard the rest one
3. Three of a kind, straight, flush, full house
if my hand is one of above, hold all cards (questions: even for three of a kind, hold all cards instead of just hold the 3 same cards???)
4. 4 to a straight flush
Try to find any 4 cards (doesn't have to be consecutive) of my hand makes partial straight flush, if so, hold those 4 cards and discard the rest one
5. Two pair
Try to find if any two pairs found, if so, hold those 4 cards, discard the rest one
6. High pair
try to find if there is any pair jacks or better, if so hold those 2 cards, discard the rest 3 cards
7. 3 to a royal flush
try to find if any 3 cards (consecutive or not) make partial royal flush, if so, hold those 3 cards and discard the rest 2 cards
8. 4 to a flush
try to find if any 4 cards make partial flush, if so, hold those 4 cards and discard the rest 1 card
9. Low pair
try to find if any 1 pair of deuce to ten, if so hold those 2 cards and discard the rest 3 cards
10. 4 to an outside straight
try to find if any 4 cards (MUST BE CONSECUTIVE and contains no ACE nor KING) makes outside straight, if so, hold those 4 cards and discard the rest 1 card
11. 2 suited high cards
try to find if any two not-same-value cards (jacks or better) but of same suited, if so, hold those two cards and discard the rest 3 cards
12. 3 to a straight flush
try to find if any 3 (consecutive or not) cards make partial straight flush, if so, hold those three cards and discard the rest 2
13. 2 unsuited high cards (if more than 2 then pick the lowest 2)
try to find any two high cards (jacks or better), they are of different suit and not identical, if more than 2 found, hold the lowest 2 cards and discard the rest 3 cards.
14. Suited 10/J, 10/Q, or 10/K
try to find any 10 and J of the same suit OR 10 and Q of the same suit OR 10 and K of the same suit, if so, hold those 2 cards and discard the rest 3.
15. One high card
try to find if any card higher than or equal to Jack (Jack, queen, king, Ace), if yes, hold that one and discard the rest 4 cards.
16. Discard everything
None of above 15 rules apply then discard all cards.
Do you think my understanding on the rules are correct? I still don't know why the RTP is still about 2.4% lower. I got the code from a big project, very hard to extract the necessary code and paste here. But will try if I get a chance.
Quote: konglifyOne more question about jacks or better strategy. I following the basic strategy and apply it on the same pay table as described in https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/jacks-or-better/9-6/simple/
But I got a 97% RTP instead of 99.45%, I some random hands with an online trainer here https://www.videopokertrainer.org/calculator/#Ad5d7dTs2c-bn-5-4000:250:400:200:125:40:25:20:15:10:5
and they match. I don't know if my code is messed up or my understanding on the rules are not complete. Let me explain my understanding on the strategy as below
1. Four of a kind, straight flush, royal flush
if I get any of above hand, hold all 5 cards
2. 4 to a royal flush
Try to find any 4 cards (doesn't have to be consecutive) of my hand makes partial royal flush, if so, hold those 4 cards and discard the rest one
3. Three of a kind, straight, flush, full house
if my hand is one of above, hold all cards (questions: even for three of a kind, hold all cards instead of just hold the 3 same cards???)
4. 4 to a straight flush
Try to find any 4 cards (doesn't have to be consecutive) of my hand makes partial straight flush, if so, hold those 4 cards and discard the rest one
5. Two pair
Try to find if any two pairs found, if so, hold those 4 cards, discard the rest one
6. High pair
try to find if there is any pair jacks or better, if so hold those 2 cards, discard the rest 3 cards
7. 3 to a royal flush
try to find if any 3 cards (consecutive or not) make partial royal flush, if so, hold those 3 cards and discard the rest 2 cards
8. 4 to a flush
try to find if any 4 cards make partial flush, if so, hold those 4 cards and discard the rest 1 card
9. Low pair
try to find if any 1 pair of deuce to ten, if so hold those 2 cards and discard the rest 3 cards
10. 4 to an outside straight
try to find if any 4 cards (MUST BE CONSECUTIVE and contains no ACE nor KING) makes outside straight, if so, hold those 4 cards and discard the rest 1 card
11. 2 suited high cards
try to find if any two not-same-value cards (jacks or better) but of same suited, if so, hold those two cards and discard the rest 3 cards
12. 3 to a straight flush
try to find if any 3 (consecutive or not) cards make partial straight flush, if so, hold those three cards and discard the rest 2
13. 2 unsuited high cards (if more than 2 then pick the lowest 2)
try to find any two high cards (jacks or better), they are of different suit and not identical, if more than 2 found, hold the lowest 2 cards and discard the rest 3 cards.
14. Suited 10/J, 10/Q, or 10/K
try to find any 10 and J of the same suit OR 10 and Q of the same suit OR 10 and K of the same suit, if so, hold those 2 cards and discard the rest 3.
15. One high card
try to find if any card higher than or equal to Jack (Jack, queen, king, Ace), if yes, hold that one and discard the rest 4 cards.
16. Discard everything
None of above 15 rules apply then discard all cards.
Do you think my understanding on the rules are correct? I still don't know why the RTP is still about 2.4% lower. I got the code from a big project, very hard to extract the necessary code and paste here. But will try if I get a chance.
If just find that for "3. Three of a kind", if I hold the 3-of-the kind cards BUT discards the rest two (I didn't do that before), the RTP raise up to 98.8% but still not close to 99.45% as expect, still have something wrong.
https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/jacks-or-better/9-6/optimal/
Or this.
https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/a-1-b-74-c-1-d-0-d-1-d-2-d-3-d-4-d-6-d-9-d-25-d-50-d-800/
Quote: IbeatyouracesHere is the optimal strategy for 9/6 JoB including the exceptions.
https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/jacks-or-better/9-6/optimal/
Or this.
https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/a-1-b-74-c-1-d-0-d-1-d-2-d-3-d-4-d-6-d-9-d-25-d-50-d-800/
Thanks for the information. But what I don't understand is the simple strategy https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/jacks-or-better/9-6/simple/ claims that it will get 99.45% rtp with that strategy and I follow exactly their rules and still get 0.7% off, I wonder something misunderstanding from my side on the rules.
Also, I don't know why Mike didn't include the inside straight draw of AKQJ unsuited as this is an easy play to remember.
The reference for the WOO strategy is correct, and valuable, but pointing out where your code is wrong is a different matter.
First of all, KQJT is a valuable part of rule 10 --- and is even better than rule 9.
Rule 12 combines 8 different 3-card straight flush categories: 2h1i ("QJ9"); 1h0i ("JT9"); 2h2i ("KQ9" and others); 1h1i ("JT8" and others); 0h0i ("345" and others); 1h2i ("JT7" and others); 0h1i ("346" and others); and 0h2i ("246" and others); Grouping these all the same is a HUGE mistake.
Also, on the above, note that "insides" is not the same as "gaps." For example, "A23" and "A45" have EXACTLY the same value. "234" and "235" also have EXACTLY the same value. Make sure you understand why before you start re-coding. (the Dancer/Daily Winner's Guide on Jacks or Better has all of this). The categorization of 3-card straight flushes stays the same for all games based on Jacks or Better, but when you start working on Deuces Wild, the categorization is significantly different.
The WOO strategy, while 100% accurate and also free, does not categorize 3-card straight flushes by number of high cards and insides. It calls them all "3 card flushes." For students trying to learn a strategy, it's easier when the hands are categorized rather than trying to memorize long lists of actual combinations.
KQJ should be held
There are LOTS of exceptions to the order of rule 13 and 14 (even before considering penalty cards.) Correct order is QJ, "JT", (KQ and KJ); "QT", "AK and AQ and AJ).
The WOO strategy contains exceptions to the basic strategy. This takes the strategy from 99.5429% to 99.5439%. These exceptions are NOT the reason you are off by more than 2%. But assuming perfection is your goal, surely you must make sure your strategy covers all of these things.
Quote: BobDancerThere are LOTS of problems to your understanding of JoB strategy.
The reference for the WOO strategy is correct, and valuable, but pointing out where your code is wrong is a different matter.
First of all, KQJT is a valuable part of rule 10 --- and is even better than rule 9.
Rule 12 combines 8 different 3-card straight flush categories: 2h1i ("QJ9"); 1h0i ("JT9"); 2h2i ("KQ9" and others); 1h1i ("JT8" and others); 0h0i ("345" and others); 1h2i ("JT7" and others); 0h1i ("346" and others); and 0h2i ("246" and others); Grouping these all the same is a HUGE mistake.
Also, on the above, note that "insides" is not the same as "gaps." For example, "A23" and "A45" have EXACTLY the same value. "234" and "235" also have EXACTLY the same value. Make sure you understand why before you start re-coding. (the Dancer/Daily Winner's Guide on Jacks or Better has all of this). The categorization of 3-card straight flushes stays the same for all games based on Jacks or Better, but when you start working on Deuces Wild, the categorization is significantly different.
The WOO strategy, while 100% accurate and also free, does not categorize 3-card straight flushes by number of high cards and insides. It calls them all "3 card flushes." For students trying to learn a strategy, it's easier when the hands are categorized rather than trying to memorize long lists of actual combinations.
KQJ should be held
There are LOTS of exceptions to the order of rule 13 and 14 (even before considering penalty cards.) Correct order is QJ, "JT", (KQ and KJ); "QT", "AK and AQ and AJ).
The WOO strategy contains exceptions to the basic strategy. This takes the strategy from 99.5429% to 99.5439%. These exceptions are NOT the reason you are off by more than 2%. But assuming perfection is your goal, surely you must make sure your strategy covers all of these things.
Thanks a lot for the detail information. I am reading them carefully. But the most confusing part is the "inside" and gaps, when you said A123 and A45 is the same, do you mean they have the same probability to make a straight? So why gaps and inside are different?
Quote: konglifyThanks a lot for the detail information. I am reading them carefully. But the most confusing part is the "inside" and gaps, when you said "A23" and "A45" is the same, do you mean they have the same probability to make a straight? So why gaps and inside are different?
I "edited" your quote a bit to make it conform to what I said. I put quote marks around the combinations to indicate they are same suited.
The only straight flush or straight either can be part of is "A2345" and A2345. There is a 1/1081 chance of the first happening and 15/1081 for the second. Any video poker software can tell you that.
Again, you need to study the Winner's Guide for the game. This is not a complicated concept --- and there are many of them to learn. The information is there for you. There is no need for you to re-invent the wheel.
Quote: BobDancer...A2345. ... There is no need for you to re-invent the wheel.
Pun intended? ;)
Kudos to all who responded to the OP - such patience and restraint.
Quote: camapl
Pun intended? ;)
Kudos to all who responded to the OP - such patience and restraint.
Nope. Accidental pun. At the time I wrote it I wasn't focusing on the fact that A2345 is referred to as a wheel. I know the term from my occasional forays into the poker world, but I've not seen it used in video poker lexicon.
Not that I'm above using puns. But had I wanted to make the pun, I would had put A2345 and "wheel" in the same sentence and not paragraphs apart. I'm not even sure that the current situation qualifies as being a pun.
