Blackjack Hand Calculator on Wizard of odds
I hope you read my post and help me with my question. First of all, I would like to thank you sincerely for educating people about gaming industry and helping them to play wisely.
I have been a card counter blackjack player for the last five years and I would say I have made a decent amount so far. Although I used your website to educate myself about the game in my early days, it was just recently that I found blackjack hand calculator on your website. I should say that seems like a great tool.
My question is regarding a specific situation in playing when you have a hard 11 vs dealer's A. I used to follow Stanford Wong's advice published in Million Dollar Blackjack to double on true count of +1 or more. Now your hand calculator basically says never to double hard 11 on A regardless of the count. I even reduced the number of low cards to 0 and it is still recommended to hit but to buy insurance.
The game I play is six decks, no hole card, dealer hits on soft 17 and DAS.
Can you please elaborate on this issue? what is the best play in this situation if you are counting cards?
Have you ever looked at the hand calculator on wizardofodds? do you think it is trustworthy?
This... H17 basic strategy is to double. S17 you need TC +1.Quote: IbeatyouracesAssuming a multi deck game, you double 11 vs A on a TC of +1 in a STAND soft 17 game, otherwise hit. If the game is HIT soft 17, then you always double. Without looking, I believe the index to hit in this game is either -1 TC or any running count less than 0. Others here will have the exact answer.
Quote: IbeatyouracesAssuming a multi deck game, you double 11 vs A on a TC of +1 in a STAND soft 17 game, otherwise hit. If the game is HIT soft 17, then you always double. Without looking, I believe the index to hit in this game is either -1 TC or any running count less than 0. Others here will have the exact answer.
I did it based on eight decks with the calculator and what I found is that a TC of +1 is actually situational. The way I did it was just by removing eight low cards from the deck composition and keeping everything else the same for TC +1.
For example, with 30 5's and 26 6's (that can't come up much) on S17, you would double, barely. If I reduce it to 30 of each 3's, 4's 5's and 6's, then the calculator says it becomes a hit rather than double. Ultimately, it would be a composition dependent decision at TC +1, so that's pretty tough. I think the composition of 10's as opposed to A's on your TC could also make a difference, a first card (hit) Ace really doesn't help you at all.
On the other, playing with a few situations, it seems that TC -1 is right about where it becomes a hit as opposed to double on H17.
Quote: RomesThis... H17 basic strategy is to double. S17 you need TC +1.
Is it not composition dependent?
Quote: RomesThis... H17 basic strategy is to double. S17 you need TC +1.
Right and I mentioned that. I wasn't sure of the H17 index on when you'd hit. I always left negative shoes. 😉
Quote: Mission146I did it based on eight decks with the calculator and what I found is that a TC of +1 is actually situational. The way I did it was just by removing eight low cards from the deck composition and keeping everything else the same for TC +1.
For example, with 30 5's and 26 6's (that can't come up much) on S17, you would double, barely. If I reduce it to 30 of each 3's, 4's 5's and 6's, then the calculator says it becomes a hit rather than double. Ultimately, it would be a composition dependent decision at TC +1, so that's pretty tough. I think the composition of 10's as opposed to A's on your TC could also make a difference, a first card (hit) Ace really doesn't help you at all.
On the other, playing with a few situations, it seems that TC -1 is right about where it becomes a hit as opposed to double on H17.
Yeah, if you're good enough to keep a side count of every rank of 2-6, you'd get a better idea on when to vary the play.
People need to remember that counting only gives an estimate and is not always completely accurate.
Quote: pesarak007My question is mainly about the hand calculator. It is probably wrong when it is recommending not to double regarding of the count. Having that in mind, do you guys think the calculator is trustworthy?
My belief is that the calculator takes into account the exact make up of the rest of the shoe and will give the correct play every time based on that exact make up. As a human counter, you won't have that exact information. Take a multi card 16 vs 10 for example. We're taught to always stand on this hand but in reality, there are many instances you'd still hit it based on the exact make up of the hand.
Quote: IbeatyouracesYeah, if you're good enough to keep a side count of every rank of 2-6, you'd get a better idea on when to vary the play.
People need to remember that counting only gives an estimate and is not always completely accurate.
I agree with you 100%, the point that I was making is that I am curious how much doubling at TC +1 improves one's expectation in the overall sense. I suppose it would depend on how many decks you start with and the average point when you hit that count. I see that when we get low on cards remaining the decision swings to Double far more often.
Oh well, pretty neat question. I'm not going to lie, I essentially only know what the calculator tells me. I care about Blackjack very close to not at all.
Quote: Mission146I agree with you 100%, the point that I was making is that I am curious how much doubling at TC +1 improves one's expectation in the overall sense. I suppose it would depend on how many decks you start with and the average point when you hit that count. I see that when we get low on cards remaining the decision swings to Double far more often.
Oh well, pretty neat question. I'm not going to lie, I essentially only know what the calculator tells me. I care about Blackjack very close to not at all.
Doubling is better because it's the best overall play at TC +1 in S17 game. There will be a few instances where it's not though. Learning those few instances is just wasting time.
Quote: Mission146I just noticed, "No Hole Card," in the OP. That means the dealer doesn't check it, I think the calculator would be correct to say never double Hard 11 against an Ace, no? Like, if it's a really positive count, you're actually pretty screwed, right?
Good catch!! We'd need to know if you lose both bets if the dealer gets a blackjack.
I have seen on the wizard of odds wizard saying the odds of this type of the game is the same as the hole card version.
Quote: pesarak007In the European game which is what we have here in Canada, the dealer just gets one card. If it is an Ace and you have doubled, you just lose the original bet on dealer's blackjack.
I have seen on the wizard of odds wizard saying the odds of this type of the game is the same as the hole card version.
It is.
I'm pretty sure this was edited in. None the less, more rules would help... i.e. I assume there's at least late surrender? Possible early surrender to 10? If you double do you lose both bets on dealer BJ or just the original? The last question actually makes the difference in the strategy for ENHC.Quote: pesarak007...The game I play is six decks, no hole card, dealer hits on soft 17 and DAS...
Ouch, so without knowing the surrender details, the HE is ~.77% off the top... and basic strategy is to NOT double 11-A or 11-10.Quote: IbeatyouracesHe said it's standard bj rules where only the original bet is lost to a bj when doubling.
I'm quite rusty on my ENHC deviations, but I believe you don't double against an ace unless it's TC +3. Again, I'd double check that... but that's 'probably' right.
Quote: RomesOuch, so without knowing the surrender details, the HE is ~.77% off the top... and basic strategy is to NOT double 11-A or 11-10.
I'm quite rusty on my ENHC deviations, but I believe you don't double against an ace unless it's TC +3. Again, I'd double check that... but that's 'probably' right.
It's not ENHC. It's standard blackjack except the dealer doesn't take the hole card. No different than of he did but didn't peek. As he said, only the original bet is lost if the player doubles and the dealer gets a blackjack. He should follow standard H17 BS and double and hit at TC -1. I can only guess that the OP didn't know that plain ole "no hole card" and "ENHC" are completely different.
On a related note, when I first started playing in the mid 90's, Soaring Eagle casino dealt blackjack with a hole card but DIDN'T peek. They now have the peeking devices.
Quote: IbeatyouracesIt's not ENHC. It's standard blackjack except the dealer doesn't take the hole card.
Exactly. it is the same as the hole card game other than the dealer gets just one card and once all the players are done with their decisions, the dealer starts drawing cards.
you are allowed to surrender on any cards except an ace and you should announce surrender before any card is drawn from the shoe (after every one gets two cards).
And yes, the type of the game was added to the OP. For some reason you think the game you play is the standard and the most commonly played game and every one should know what it is until you realize it is not!
You can split up to four hands and double on any two cards (other than split aces). if the dealer hits a BJ, you will only lose your original bet.
if you split and bust (on dealer's 10 or A), they will flip your cards over but will not take the bet. If the dealer has a BJ (does not matter if he was showing A or a ten), they will still take the original bet.
If it is not a BJ, you will lose the bust bet and the dealer continues drawing cards. Basically it is exactly like hole card version in terms of the odds but the dealer does not take a hole card.
I am sure of it as I have been playing this game almost every day for the last four years!
