Simple Pass/Don't Pass question

The house advantage for the pass/don't pass is about 1.4%. Does this mean it's per come out roll or per roll?

Quote: focd

The house advantage for the pass/don't pass is about 1.4%. Does this mean it's per come out roll or per roll?

Neither. Per BET.

So does that mean that if the shooter shoots like 30 times while your bet is still on the pass line, it doesn't change the HA? I think your definition of per bet is what I meant to say with the "per come out roll". Because with each come out roll, the bets on the line are considered new bets.

Quote: focd

The house advantage for the pass/don't pass is about 1.4%. Does this mean it's per come out roll or per roll?

I could be defined as the expected loss per bet, or per come out roll. Every come out roll will resolve a pass or don't pass bet, although sometimes as a push with the don't pass.

Quote: focd

So does that mean that if the shooter shoots like 30 times while your bet is still on the pass line, it doesn't change the HA? I think your definition of per bet is what I meant to say with the "per come out roll". Because with each come out roll, the bets on the line are considered new bets.

It does not change the house advantage.

The bet is placed. The dice are rolled. At that moment, it is now worth 98.59% of its face value.

The only roll that counts from the point of view of the house advantage on the pass line bet is whatever roll produces a decision. That roll could occur on the first, the 30th, or the 12,387th roll. The other rolls don't matter. The house advantage on the pass line is 1.41%.

You are correct in saying "per come out roll", because by definition, there must have been a decision on the previous roll. However, looking at it that way might obscure the fact that the house advantage is the same whether it takes three rolls or 500 rolls to get those three come-out rolls.

Quote: mkl654321

You are correct in saying "per come out roll", because by definition, there must have been a decision on the previous roll. However, looking at it that way might obscure the fact that the house advantage is the same whether it takes three rolls or 500 rolls to get those three come-out rolls.

Now I am confused as to why the number of rolls matter. So let's say it takes 500 rolls to reach a decision. That is still under ONE COME OUT ROLL. So can't we just ignore the fact that there can be many rolls and just count the HA by per come out roll?

You can for the pass line because the pass line resolves every come out roll (by definition). The don't pass doesn't - the 12 is no-action. But once you start counting the HA per come out roll you've lost your basis of comparison with basically any other bet because no other bet has exactly the same expected # rolls (that is, duration). That's why it's often helpful to gauge EV per roll, which you do by dividing the per-bet EV by the expected number of rolls for that wager. EV/roll is useful to get to a theoretical dollar loss/hour for whatever system you're playing. Just add up the EV/roll for all bets you're making and how much you're making them for, then multiply by rolls/hour (90 is a good start).

Quote: MathExtremist

You can for the pass line because the pass line resolves every come out roll (by definition). The don't pass doesn't - the 12 is no-action. But once you start counting the HA per come out roll you've lost your basis of comparison with basically any other bet because no other bet has exactly the same expected # rolls (that is, duration). That's why it's often helpful to gauge EV per roll, which you do by dividing the per-bet EV by the expected number of rolls for that wager. EV/roll is useful to get to a theoretical dollar loss/hour for whatever system you're playing. Just add up the EV/roll for all bets you're making and how much you're making them for, then multiply by rolls/hour (90 is a good start).

If you were figuring EV/roll for a pass line bet, then you would divide the expected total loss on the bet by average number of rolls per decision, which, if memory serves, is 3.4. I'm too lazy to make the calculation, but I would guess that results in a -EV of about -0.004 bets/roll. Perhaps the Wiz can verify.

He already has:
https://wizardofodds.com/craps/appendix2.html

In spite of my prior post, I usually go by per-bet. I know my $5 line bets are worth 7c to the casino, and I make line bets on about 2/3 of rolls (I bet pass + come), so my -EV is about $4.20/hour give or take. On a faster table, maybe it's $5 or $6.

Quote: MathExtremist

He already has:
https://wizardofodds.com/craps/appendix2.html

In spite of my prior post, I usually go by per-bet. I know my $5 line bets are worth 7c to the casino, and I make line bets on about 2/3 of rolls (I bet pass + come), so my -EV is about $4.20/hour give or take. On a faster table, maybe it's $5 or $6.

Gee, looks like I was pretty close, for guessing. I hereby give myself a high-five and a bonus "lol".

Sorry but I am not that good with calculations. So let's say I don't need the technical details, does that mean that the HA is 1.41% per come out roll for the pass and 1.4% for the don't come not counting ties? Thanks.