Street craps edge or advantage
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So in street craps.. does someone have an advantage? I would have guessed dont pass has a small advantage and maybe its considered okay because there will be many rounds. If it was somehow even... is it because bar12 is not used?
Bonus question... why is bar12 a thing? Some sites claim this is where the casino gets its edge.
there is no darkside betting I wouldn't think. In any case the shooter surely only books bets against himself rightside in any semblance of what goes on normally.
Quote: rob.waiteBonus question... why is bar12 a thing? Some sites claim this is where the casino gets its edge.
Exactly. Without it, Don't Pass would win whenever Pass loses, so, since Pass loses more than 50% of the time, Don't Pass would win more than 50% of the time.
Somebody way back when probably figured that having Bar 12 would be easier than taking a commission on Don't Pass bets, similar to what is done with banker bets in Baccarat.
Pushing a crap-12 on the come-out gives back 2.8% (1/36) to the house, so it makes both the pass and don't pass 1.4% house-favored.
If you paid one-half on the don't pass, on a come-out crap 12, and if the pass line lost one-half on a come-out 12, then both line bets would be true odds, 0% HE.
Quote: rob.waiteSo in street craps.. does someone have an advantage?
It occurs to me that we should acknowledge [someone else in another thread pointed out] that if you decline to shoot the dice you do have an advantage just betting against whoever is shooting all the time.
I have zero actual experience with street craps, but I doubt if anyone would care if you did that. The activity is so harrowing to personal and financial safety that it is a mute point with me, however.
not sure what you meanQuote: rushdlIn street Craps the general caution is that the fader will usually get even odds and you don't want to do that.
Quote:The greater caution to watch out for is the bad odds offered by the experienced hustlers. This is quite entertaining, and dangerous.
I have seen it claimed this indeed goes on, but for the point once established
Another bet to watch out for in Street or lets say Army craps is the 2-roll or 3-roll bet.
Sam Grafstein was big on these recommendations in his book. If this is your line of questioning I totally recommend "The Dice Doctor".
Quote: rushdlSam Grafstein was big on these recommendations in his book. [/qI thought Grafstein was always a darkside player on bank craps?
John Scarne gives that credit (somebody)Quote: ThatDonGuySomebody way back when probably figured that having Bar 12 would be easier than taking a commission on Don't Pass bets, similar to what is done with banker bets in Baccarat.
to his friend John H. Winn in Scarne on Dice.
also calls him "the father of Modern Craps."
from Scarne,
early on the don't pass required a 5% vig, but that turned out to be too high
then the Ace-Deuce was barred and in the book (1974)
Scarne says some still use it
I never seen that one
that is sillyQuote: PaigowdanIf
you paid one-half on the don't pass,
on a come-out crap 12,
and if
the pass line lost one-half on a come-out 12,
then
both line bets would be true odds, 0% HE.
this was gone over before this year started.
member Ahigh said the same thing.
no link provided
<<<<>>>>
the player would still enjoy a 1/3960 (0.5/1980)
edge over the house on the don't pass (dcome)
while
the pass line (come) would pay the cost of 1/3960 (0.5/1980)
<<>>
the pass line could easily be made fair by paying out $251 for every $244 won
flat bet of course
the dpass, I know no yet
lots of candy bunnies to eat before dinner and dancing too
Sally
I'd think it was cool anyway..
Just 2F
Quote: mustangsallythat is silly
this was gone over before this year started.
member Ahigh said the same thing.
no link provided
<<<<>>>>
the player would still enjoy a 1/3960 (0.5/1980)
edge over the house on the don't pass (dcome)
while
the pass line (come) would pay the cost of 1/3960 (0.5/1980)
<<>>
the pass line could easily be made fair by paying out $251 for every $244 won
flat bet of course
the dpass, I know no yet
lots of candy bunnies to eat before dinner and dancing too
Sally
well, I was wondering, it's a matter of x/495, which to my untrained ears sounds hard to make equal
Quote: mustangsallythat is silly
this was gone over before this year started.
member Ahigh said the same thing.
no link provided
<<<<>>>>
the player would still enjoy a 1/3960 (0.5/1980)
edge over the house on the don't pass (dcome)
while
the pass line (come) would pay the cost of 1/3960 (0.5/1980)
<<>>
the pass line could easily be made fair by paying out $251 for every $244 won
flat bet of course
the dpass, I know no yet
lots of candy bunnies to eat before dinner and dancing too
Sally
No, half-pay/half-loss on a come-out 12 is a reasonable way to get a de facto even game.
Yes, you're technically right, but 1/3960 is 0.00025 of a betting unit, while keeping the flat bet even money with a simple half-pay / half-loss on a come-out 12. This would come out to a penny on each $40 bet on the line, either way. I don't see how 1/3960 of a unit from true odds is an advantage; I'd say it is as good as true odds, and easy to play and deal.
Now, paying $251 for each $244 is not fair to the players in terms of a minimum bet, or to the crap dealers, who'd have to pay $251 for each $244.
I looked at the issue as a game designer: easy to deal and calculate on the game this way.
