Poll

5 votes (27.77%)
No votes (0%)
5 votes (27.77%)
3 votes (16.66%)
No votes (0%)
2 votes (11.11%)
No votes (0%)
3 votes (16.66%)

18 members have voted

Wizard
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April 15th, 2015 at 8:09:41 PM permalink
You and your friend are both in prison. You are both informed that you will shortly be separated. After separation, you will then each flip a fair coin. You will then be asked to submit a prediction of the other person's flip. If you are both correct then you will both be set free. If one or both are wrong, then you will both be put to death.

You are allowed some time to devise a strategy. What strategy should you devise?

The question for the poll is what the maximum probability of success?
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teliot
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April 15th, 2015 at 8:15:36 PM permalink
Hmmm ...
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mason2386
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April 15th, 2015 at 8:16:09 PM permalink
That is a complex question..... I work in a prison. I kill the other person........
Wizard
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April 15th, 2015 at 8:22:25 PM permalink
To make the question more clear, you must flip after being separated, and submit your prediction to the guards after the flip.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
CrystalMath
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April 15th, 2015 at 8:35:57 PM permalink
I would set the coin, slide it, and not hit any walls.

50%. Agree to guess what you flipped.
I heart Crystal Math.
EdCollins
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April 15th, 2015 at 8:57:00 PM permalink

If each prisoner uses the strategy of guessing the opposite of what they flipped, the chances that both will be correct is 50%... and that's the best they can do.
beachbumbabs
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April 15th, 2015 at 9:03:22 PM permalink
The only strategy I can see is based on the order of events. Since it's a 50/50 chance, and you will see your own result before making your prediction, I think your best chance is to predict the opposite result for the other prisoner (slightly better than guessing the same). Without that order of events, your combined chance is a straightforward 25%, but I think that condition increases your combined chance to 33 1/3%. Not that I can make a mathematical proof of it, but it feels logical.


Too funny, CM!
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Wizard
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April 15th, 2015 at 9:03:57 PM permalink
I'd be interested to see the strategies of those who voted for 66 2/3%.

Also, let's remember to put answers in spoiler tags, to not ruin it for everyone else.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
beachbumbabs
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April 15th, 2015 at 9:05:16 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

...

Also, let's remember to put answers in spoiler tags, to not ruin it for everyone else.



Just went back and did that, sorry.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
kenarman
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April 15th, 2015 at 9:17:14 PM permalink
I voted 66 2/3% but am not real confident in my math.
There are 4 options for the 2 coins, HH,HT,TH,TT Once a prisoner has flipped he knows he can eliminate the pair of whatever he didn't flip as an outcome. 2 of the 3 remaining options are one of each so guess the opposite of your flip.
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EdCollins
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April 15th, 2015 at 9:22:05 PM permalink

There are four possible outcomes with the two coins:
#1 = hh / #1 says: "I guess tail." #2 says: "I guess tail." (result: wrong wrong)
#2 = ht / #1 says: "I guess tail." #2 says: "I guess head." (result: right! right!)
#3 = th / #1 says: "I guess head." #2 says: "I guess tail." (result: right! right!)
#4 = tt / #1 says: "I guess head." #2 says: "I guess head." (result: wrong wrong)

And yes, CrystalMath's answer of guessing what you flipped (instead of guessing the opposite) works just as well.
EdCollins
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April 15th, 2015 at 9:24:22 PM permalink
Oh, and I never watched Little House on the Prairie. Not once. :)
Wizard
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April 15th, 2015 at 10:03:01 PM permalink
You don't indicate what both flips are. Just what you think the other guy flipped. Just just "heads" or "tails."
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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April 15th, 2015 at 10:03:36 PM permalink
Quote: EdCollins

Oh, and I never watched Little House on the Prairie. Not once. :)



You haven't lived.
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EvenBob
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April 15th, 2015 at 10:32:37 PM permalink
I was the first to vote 66 2/3. I did it
because it seems correct, though
I can't explain why because it hurts
my head. It might be because I saw
a similar problem and that was the
answer.

I flunked algebra in 1963
because I read James Bond books
inside my algebra book instead of
paying attention.
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RS
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April 15th, 2015 at 10:57:10 PM permalink

Either both guess opposite or both guess the same. 50% chance of success.
DJTeddyBear
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April 16th, 2015 at 5:38:49 AM permalink
Although I read the other responses, and spoilers, I came up with my own no-math reasoning.

And, sigh, it makes me wanna change my vote.

I originally voted 25% based upon two random guesses.

Now, with strategy, I wanna say 50%.

If, with or without strategy, one chooses the same as what he flipped and the other chooses the opposite, then they will never both be correct.

Therefore, the strategy discussion will only be to decide if they are both going to say the same or opposite of what they each flipped.

I came up with this after trying to wrap my head around the reasoning for the 66 2/3% vote.

And if it makes you feel better, my head hurts.
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Wizard
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April 16th, 2015 at 6:49:48 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

And if it makes you feel better, my head hurts.



That does make me feel better!
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Doc
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April 16th, 2015 at 6:52:18 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

... After separation, you will then each flip a fair coin. You will then be asked to submit a prediction of the other person's flip. If you are both correct then you will both be set free. If one or both are wrong, then you will both be put to death.

You are allowed some time to devise a strategy. What strategy should you devise?



Note that the instructions do not specifically state that you must show your flipped coin to the guards. Strategy:
Agree with your friend that you will each flip your coin, keep it hidden from the guards, and declare that you flipped heads. Then you each "predict" that your friend "flipped" heads. If you and your friend can get this strategy past the guards, then you have a 100% chance of winning.

Otherwise, I think your chances of survival are only 25% -- the probability that both of you can correctly guess the result of 50-50 coin flips.

Because I have two conflicting answers here, I have not voted.
Wizard
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April 16th, 2015 at 7:29:29 AM permalink
Let me add that the guards will enforce a fair flip and record the results.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
EvenBob
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April 16th, 2015 at 11:26:10 AM permalink
Quote: EdCollins

Oh, and I never watched Little House on the Prairie. Not once. :)



Nope, me neither. I was in my 20's in the 70's
and didn't watch much TV. Never saw the Waltons
either. Did watch Kung Fu though, never missed
it.
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EdCollins
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April 16th, 2015 at 11:33:34 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Nope, me neither. I was in my 20's in the 70's
and didn't watch much TV. Never saw the Waltons
either. Did watch Kung Fu though, never missed
it.


There probably was something else on at that time, that I watched, instead of L. H. on the P. Maybe not though... it just might not have appealed to me. Likewise, I also never saw the Waltons, probably for the same reason... simply watching something else and/or no appeal.

But yes, Kung Fu was great! I watched that show all the time. In fact, I have all three seasons on DVD.
Romes
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April 16th, 2015 at 12:16:39 PM permalink
The guards will ensure a fair flip, sure... but have you ever heard the story of the coin flipper that took Ken Uston for a lot of money? Would we be allowed when to decide to take this challenge? I would practice all day every day for a month straight flipping the coin, landing it in my palm and feeling which side was up and down. Once I can accurately tell which side it is, agree on an outcome (let's say Tails) and then ensure you flip tails. If you feel the tails is down on your palm, flop the coin over on to the back of your other hand, which is a completely legitimate coin flip technique. This would provide a 100% success rate.

Of course getting to the math question at hand though...

If 1 person were to do this and call the coin before they flipped it:
P(guessing 1 flip correctly) = 1/2 = .5 or 50%
P(guessing 2 flips correctly) = P(guessing 1 flip correctly) * P(guessing 1 flip correctly) = .5 * .5 = .25 or 25%

There's a lot more options here than I think people realize. The outcome of the coin flip is binary 00, 01, 10, 11... but that's not factoring your choices in to each outcome.

0000 (RIGHT)
0001
0010
0011
0100
0101
0110 (RIGHT)
0111
1000
1001 (RIGHT)
1010
1011
1100
1101
1110
1111 (RIGHT)

4/16 = 2/8 = 1/4 = .25 or 25%

Flip-Guess, Flip-Guess, Correctness
T - Heads, T - Heads, WRONG
T - Heads, T - Tails, WRONG
T - Tails, T - Heads, WRONG
T - Tails, T - Tails, RIGHT

T - Heads, H - Heads, WRONG
T - Heads, H - Tails, RIGHT
T - Tails, H - Heads, WRONG
T - Tails, H - Tails, WRONG

H - Heads, T - Heads, WRONG
H - Heads, T - Tails, WRONG
H - Tails, T - Heads, RIGHT
H - Tails, T - Tails, WRONG

H - Heads, H - Heads, RIGHT
H - Heads, H - Tails, WRONG
H - Tails, H - Heads, WRONG
H - Tails, H - Tails, WRONG

Now after I flip, let's say Tails, then I can eliminate the 2 groupings of 4 where my flip was Heads. I'm down to 8 possibilities. If I tell my partner I'm always going to guess the opposite of what I flip, then that means I'll be guessing Heads in this scenario. This puts me down to 4 possibilities, 3 of which are wrong and 1 which is right. Because even if my partner does flip Heads, he may guess my coin incorrectly. The 4 resulting options where I flip tails and guess Heads are:
T - Heads, T - Heads, WRONG
T - Heads, T - Tails, WRONG
T - Heads, H - Heads, WRONG
T - Heads, H - Tails, RIGHT

ERROR: I did not take in to account if my partner ALSO agrees to always guess opposite, then that eliminates 2 more of the choices leaving only 2 choices (one being right) for a 50/50:
T - Heads, T - Heads, WRONG
T - Heads, H - Tails, RIGHT

Therefore the answer would be 50% if you both either A) agree to always guess the same as you flipped, or B) agree to always guess the opposite of what you flipped.
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rudeboyoi
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April 16th, 2015 at 12:50:39 PM permalink
I took this intro to business class in college. The whole semester the professor would make analogies to how business was like little house on the prairie. Pretty sure he just winged his lectures. I'm guessing he and his family must have been rewatching the whole series on DVD that semester.
TheNightfly
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April 16th, 2015 at 12:56:45 PM permalink
The way I see it is that the best they could do is 50%.

Let's assume that they agree to simply predict that the other coin will be a match. For example, Prisoner A flips a head and predicts then that Prisoner B will also flip a head. Assuming a fair coin and a fair flip, he has exactly a 50% chance of being correct. If Prisoner B flips a head he will also predict a head and they will match. If Prisoner B flips a tail then he will predict a tail and they won't match. Regardless of Prisoner A's flip, he will predict Prisoner B's flip correclty 50% of the time.

I can't see how they can do better than that.
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Jeepster
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April 16th, 2015 at 1:08:37 PM permalink
Is prisoner B allowed to ask what prisoner A predicted before prisoner B makes his own prediction?
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Wizard
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April 16th, 2015 at 1:17:59 PM permalink
Quote: Jeepster

Is prisoner B allowed to ask what prisoner A predicted before prisoner B makes his own prediction?



No.

Also, again, the coin is fair and the flips are independent.

Quite a few people have submitted the correct answer.


As far as I know, there are two strategies which will work 50% of the time:

1. Both predict the same as what they flip (will work with TT and HH).
2. Both predict the opposite as what they flip (will work with TH and HT).
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Kerkebet
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April 16th, 2015 at 1:41:48 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

Hmmm ...


The other's flip will be a four-letter word.

Let A predict, "B's is the same as mine, as far as we're not both right"; and, B, "A's is different from mine, as far as we're not both right."
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teliot
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April 16th, 2015 at 1:47:41 PM permalink
Here is a strategy that always fails 100% of the time:

Person 1 always predicts the same of his toss.
Person 2 always predicts the opposite of his toss.
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EdCollins
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April 16th, 2015 at 2:02:22 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

Here is a strategy that always fails 100% of the time:


Yes. This was the first scenario I tried, when I was first experimenting with possible solutions, and I discovered the same thing.
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