Slot Floor Decision

Small casino is getting pressure to add some higher limit slot machines from a couple of high rolling clients.
Management is reluctant because of risk of being hit and it's assumed that the players might not return (A big jackpot might wipe out all the earnings from the smaller denom slots for months if not the year.)
Anyone know the relevant math logic for slot floor denomination design?

At first blush I would have said, put any machine in. +EV, it would be dumb to not put in a higher denom ASAP.
Upon reflection, I assume the prudent approach would involve estimates of player population or utilization intertwined with an acceptable risk scenario from a hit jackpot. It seems logical that there would be an optimum mix of machines/denoms based on ones marketplace dynamics.

Ideas? Approaches?

Kelly Criterion

Quote: Gallop136

Small casino is getting pressure to add some higher limit slot machines from a couple of high rolling clients.
Management is reluctant because of risk of being hit and it's assumed that the players might not return (A big jackpot might wipe out all the earnings from the smaller denom slots for months if not the year.)
Anyone know the relevant math logic for slot floor denomination design?

At first blush I would have said, put any machine in. +EV, it would be dumb to not put in a higher denom ASAP.
Upon reflection, I assume the prudent approach would involve estimates of player population or utilization intertwined with an acceptable risk scenario from a hit jackpot. It seems logical that there would be an optimum mix of machines/denoms based on ones marketplace dynamics.

Ideas? Approaches?

There is always a house edge that is high enough to justify any denomination slot machine. The casino has more than one decision to make.

Quote: Gallop136

Small casino is getting pressure to add some higher limit slot machines
...
Ideas? Approaches?

How high of a limit do they offer now? How high of a limit are the players asking for?

I've seen some multidenom 5-10-25c/credit machines that can go to $75/spin at max credit/max bet (15x20), and I've seen some $5/credit machines that cap at $10/spin (1x2).

Quote: Gallop136

Small casino is getting pressure to add some higher limit slot machines from a couple of high rolling clients.
Management is reluctant because of risk of being hit and it's assumed that the players might not return (A big jackpot might wipe out all the earnings from the smaller denom slots for months if not the year.)
Anyone know the relevant math logic for slot floor denomination design?

At first blush I would have said, put any machine in. +EV, it would be dumb to not put in a higher denom ASAP.
Upon reflection, I assume the prudent approach would involve estimates of player population or utilization intertwined with an acceptable risk scenario from a hit jackpot. It seems logical that there would be an optimum mix of machines/denoms based on ones marketplace dynamics.

Ideas? Approaches?

Any time someone is asking for the casino to put in a higher denomination or a particular machine the casino should be wary.

I see casinos putting in Ainsworth $5 must hits. 10 lines $250 max.

Either cap the max payout, or have the company purchase a reinsurance contract through a deal with another company or casino.

im not sure im correct on this- but at one casino in florida there is a mega highroller- but there max payout is 500k on any machine- however she plays two machines at a time a 520 per spin and somehow either the machine was set or she was told that the max payout per spin is 500 so either the jackpot is adjusted on the machine or she isnt paid about 500k-
is this even possible- its an indian tribe so they do what they want any but still

pretty sure that the only factor should be the risk tolerance of the casino management, if you know it will get action. pick low variance slots, and pay a gaming mathematician to calculate a statistical analysis of the distribution of wins/losses and compare it to the casino bankroll or management/investor appetite for risk. if the casino were a single entity, they would just put it out there and pull it when they were no longer bankrolled for the game. however, the risk/reward for a small casino slot director is very lopsided.

2% increase in win = pat on back
20% loss in win due to new $100 denom slot jackpot = unemployment line

at one of the local casinos here they had a group of i think 7 men from Dallas who were traveling for some conference and made their fortunes in oil. As I understood it they all traveled with a million or more in cash apiece and loved to shoot dice, combined their action may have had six figures on the layout on a single roll. I believe they lost small but the casino decided not to market to them afterwards and also didn't make them very welcome while they were there because management was sweating bullets the entire time, hoping they didn't hit for a couple million and leave. this is a multi-billion dollar casino corporation.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Kelly Criterion

Peter Principle. Any Manager that is scared shouldn't be there.


ZCore13

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Kelly Criterion

...combined with some analysis of demand. There is some reason, after all, that they put up only so many machines in a place, and that is not (only) floorspace.

Quote: Zcore13

Peter Principle. Any Manager that is scared shouldn't be there.

Huh? It is not about being scared or not scared. They should take bets up to the size that they can handle. There is no fear; just math.

I've seen a lot of scared Table Games and slot people. Some don't understand the math completely or the actual risk.

When I started 8 years ago Supervisors at my place thought switching dealers on a hot player would make a difference. To this day employees have to wait 30 minutes after their shift to play slots in case they've been watching for slots that are "due".

ZCore13

I have helped a few small casinos set up slot floors. I generally advise that no jackpot that they have to pay themselves be more than a maximum of 2 weeks average net win. Many casinos are even more cautious and use 1 weeks net win for a maximum jackpot liability.

Quote: Zcore13

To this day employees have to wait 30 minutes after their shift to play slots in case they've been watching for slots that are "due".

ZCore13

LMAO, seriously? It's against your state's standard compact for slots to generally be "due". Maybe they are worried about "must hit by" progressives, but I doubt it. Overall, your state behaves exactly like Nevada for gaming machines (I'm sure you already knew this, btw).

My state doesn't have this problem though. No gambling where you work. Period.

Quote: tringlomane

LMAO, seriously? It's against your state's standard compact for slots to generally be "due". Maybe they are worried about "must hit by" progressives, but I doubt it. Overall, your state behaves exactly like Nevada for gaming machines (I'm sure you already knew this, btw).

My state doesn't have this problem though. No gambling where you work. Period.

No must hits at the casino. Here's another one... No mp3/music players. It could interfere with the electronics or enable someone to create a jackpot.

ZCore13

Quote: DRich

I have helped a few small casinos set up slot floors. I generally advise that no jackpot that they have to pay themselves be more than a maximum of 2 weeks average net win. Many casinos are even more cautious and use 1 weeks net win for a maximum jackpot liability.

How much would these amount? Only for max bet or the lowest average bet?

Quote: Zcore13

No must hits at the casino. Here's another one... No mp3/music players. It could interfere with the electronics or enable someone to create a jackpot.

ZCore13

Wow, that's even worse. Missouri banned that from live poker tables for awhile, for possible cheating/to help speed up the game. It got rescinded because all of the hoodie types younger than me out there complained. They definitely weren't ever banned for slots/video poker though.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

How much would these amount? Only for max bet or the lowest average bet?

It would be for the maximum payout on the slot machine which is usually the Max Bet. Again, I always recommend less than 2 weeks average net win.

Look at the prices of used slot machines. Then the casino will have no worries even if their high rollers desert the machine without rhyme or reason.