boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5988
October 29th, 2013 at 6:34:50 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

It is my understanding that the Wheel being second best is not a Vegas thing but a Pai Gow thing.

That's the rank everywhere I've played.

It was explained this way: First you evaluate the type of hand. Straight. THEN you look at the cards INDIVIDUALLY. Therefore, a straight whose highest card is an ace beats the king high straight, but is second to Broadway because of the king vs five kickers.



Reno A-5 straight is ranked lowest.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
  • Threads: 115
  • Posts: 5692
October 29th, 2013 at 7:05:29 AM permalink
Reno is a bit in its own world.
Most areas - just about all - the wheel is 2nd highest in Pai Gow poker.
Interestingly, some crap tables in Reno pay 3:1 field on the 2 instead of the 12.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
miplet
miplet
Joined: Dec 1, 2009
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 1900
October 29th, 2013 at 1:03:09 PM permalink
Quote: canmathguy

The Straight Flush entry is off by almost 25%; that's 1 in 4 plays. When I run my program under the debugger I should be able to see any misplays, but I don't. Anyone have any ideas?


Try the following hands:
Joker, Ac,2c,3h,4h,5s,6d
Joker, Ac,2c,3h,4h,6s,6d
Joker, Ac,2c,3h,4h,5s,5d
Joker, Ac,2c,3h,4h,5s,7d
Joker, Ac,2c,3h,4h,4s,5d
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 97
  • Posts: 13708
October 29th, 2013 at 1:33:09 PM permalink
Quote: canmathguy

I have treated the A2345 straight as the second highest. This is likely the cause for much of the errors; i will investigate and report back.
I have also allowed the joker to be a second ace in a flush.

In response to your comments 1), 2) and 3).
1) Ah Ad Ac Joker Kd Qd Jd. Is that not a 4 of a kind with a Royal Flush?
2) Ah joker Kh Kd Qh Qd Jh. Is that not a 3 of a kind with a Royal Flush?
3) Joker Ad Ac 7d 4c 3c 2c. If you play 2 aces in the low hand, you break the flush. Correct?

Thanks for your response!



I think your comment about the joker being the second ace in a flush might be the issue in at least some of the problems; it's treated as the highest non-represented card in a flush in the actual game if it's necessary to complete the flush, as an ace if it's not (for win/loss, head to head with the dealer, it's as played; for bonus ranking values, it's irrelevant, because bonuses are paid win or lose) So if a hand contains 5 hearts, joker, ace of spades, the value is flush plus pair; but your program might be using the joker as an ace of hearts for the highest ranking flush, leaving ace of spades/littlest heart to be played up top.

Same thing with a straight; if the joker is not needed to complete a straight, it is given the Ace value and played up top. Exception on both these is when a pair can be played out of the sequence and the joker substituted for either straight or flush value; in that case, the heart and other card of the same rank would come out of the hand for the top, and the joker complete the straight or flush.

However, sometimes in either it has the value of an Ace as well as participating in the flush or straight. And this issue would carry over to straight flushes; they can happen without using the Joker, and also include it; any natural SF up to the 7 card royal would be improved by one rank by putting the joker on the top (wheel bottom) of it, but the hand ranks stronger with the lower ranked SF and an ace to put up top, unless the 7th card makes a pair. If your program is putting the joker on the higher ranking end, rather than playing it as an ace in the 2 card hand in these cases, it could explain the rest of your puzzling results beyond using the joker as a 2nd ace in a flush.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 97
  • Posts: 13708
October 29th, 2013 at 1:46:41 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I think your comment about the joker being the second ace in a flush might be the issue in at least some of the problems; it's treated as the highest non-represented card in a flush in the actual game if it's necessary to complete the flush, as an ace if it's not (for win/loss, head to head with the dealer, it's as played; for bonus ranking values, it's irrelevant, because bonuses are paid win or lose) So if a hand contains 5 hearts, joker, ace of spades, the value is flush plus pair; but your program might be using the joker as an ace of hearts for the highest ranking flush, leaving ace of spades/littlest heart to be played up top.

Same thing with a straight; if the joker is not needed to complete a straight, it is given the Ace value and played up top. Exception on both these is when a pair can be played out of the sequence and the joker substituted for either straight or flush value; in that case, the heart and other card of the same rank would come out of the hand for the top, and the joker complete the straight or flush.

However, sometimes in either it has the value of an Ace as well as participating in the flush or straight. And this issue would carry over to straight flushes; they can happen without using the Joker, and also include it; any natural SF up to the 7 card royal would be improved by one rank by putting the joker on the top (wheel bottom) of it, but the hand ranks stronger with the lower ranked SF and an ace to put up top, unless the 7th card makes a pair. If your program is putting the joker on the higher ranking end, rather than playing it as an ace in the 2 card hand in these cases, it could explain the rest of your puzzling results beyond using the joker as a 2nd ace in a flush.



Sorry, this is a mishmash but I'm going to leave it be. In short, I think you have to consider the 7 card hand and strategy in how you best hold it, not just the best 5 card hand that can be made for the bonus. I'm not sure which you're evaluating, because they would be different between whether you're evaluating the game for the base pay or for a bonus pay occurence.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.

  • Jump to: