Suprising6
Joined: Dec 21, 2012
• Posts: 6
December 21st, 2012 at 7:40:42 AM permalink
Hello,

When you get a moment could you clarify this question? Looking at the American Roulette wheel head, it was noticed that numbers belonging to 2nd dozen are very grouped, possibly creating a bias towards 2nd dozen.

It seems that numbers 19, 18, 21, 16, 23 and 14 are grouped on one side of the wheel (with one number spaced between them)
While numbers 13, 24, 15, 22, 17 and 20 are grouped on the opposite side, also with one number in the space between them.

Could this be exploited in any way as 1st and 3rd dozen arent grouped together?

Thank you for the answer and keep up the great work!
Canyonero
Joined: Nov 19, 2012
• Posts: 509
December 21st, 2012 at 9:00:23 AM permalink
Unless the wheel is physically biased towards these areas (not the case in any licensed casino), the answer is a qualified no. In fact, the order of the numbers on the wheel is completely irrelevant.

Welcome to the board btw...
Suprising6
Joined: Dec 21, 2012
• Posts: 6
December 21st, 2012 at 9:29:31 AM permalink
Quote: Canyonero

Unless the wheel is physically biased towards these areas (not the case in any licensed casino), the answer is a qualified no. In fact, the order of the numbers on the wheel is completely irrelevant.

Welcome to the board btw...

Thank you
midwestgb
Joined: Dec 8, 2009
• Posts: 465
December 21st, 2012 at 9:47:55 AM permalink
Quote: Suprising6

Hello,

When you get a moment could you clarify this question? Looking at the American Roulette wheel head, it was noticed that numbers belonging to 2nd dozen are very grouped, possibly creating a bias towards 2nd dozen.

It seems that numbers 19, 18, 21, 16, 23 and 14 are grouped on one side of the wheel (with one number spaced between them)
While numbers 13, 24, 15, 22, 17 and 20 are grouped on the opposite side, also with one number in the space between them.

Could this be exploited in any way as 1st and 3rd dozen arent grouped together?

Thank you for the answer and keep up the great work!

Another interesting facet of the numbers as grouped on the American wheel is this: The dozen numbers in the middle column on the layout (2,5,8,11, etc.) are all generally grouped in the half of the wheel surrounding either side of the single '0' ... in fact from the 5 to the 23 on the wheel encompasses ten of these twelve column numbers. If I see that area of the wheel hitting, I am more prone to sit down at the table. But of course, that does not mean I am then playing at any provable advantage by focusing my bets in that region of the wheel (but then again, I might be ... ;-))
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
• Posts: 1977
December 21st, 2012 at 9:51:43 AM permalink
Quote: Suprising6

Looking at the American Roulette wheel head, it was noticed that numbers belonging to 2nd dozen are very grouped, possibly creating a bias towards 2nd dozen.

It seems that numbers 19, 18, 21, 16, 23 and 14 are grouped on one side of the wheel (with one number spaced between them)
While numbers 13, 24, 15, 22, 17 and 20 are grouped on the opposite side, also with one number in the space between them.

Nice observation.
I found these photos
what about column 2 and 3?

Good Luck!

Quote: Suprising6

Could this be exploited in any way as 1st and 3rd dozen arent grouped together?

Thank you for the answer and keep up the great work!

Never say never. If you do find a way to exploit this for real \$\$\$, keep it a secret.
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
MarieBicurie
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
• Posts: 140
December 21st, 2012 at 2:03:07 PM permalink
Even if there is a way to exploit it, the variance is really going to suck. Even if you knew when the ball was going to land in the zone with the 2nd dozen numbers, you would expect a 50% chance to win with a 2:1 payout. But the variance is going to drive you crazy. If you could predict where the ball is going to land, you would be far better off just betting numbers on that half of the wheel.
Ahigh
Joined: May 19, 2010
• Posts: 5136
December 21st, 2012 at 2:35:03 PM permalink
The best roulette exploits depend on the older "deep pocket" wheels, which is why they are less common these days.

A single zero deep pocket wheel has the most exposure of any wheel around.

You won't find very many deep pocket wheels on the strip. They are mostly found in lower limit locations.

I don't have a list handy, but you want the ball to be sort of "slurped" right into the pocket instead of bouncing around if you're going to take advantage of any bias.

I have only heard of such devices, but a device that lets you press a button each time an event occurs can give you feedback on bias and how to exploit it in general.

You press a button when a specific number passes a specific point, and then again on the next spin. Then each time the ball passes the same point another button is pressed.

Some feedback is given to tell you what to bet to exploit the bias of the state of the ball and spinning wheel.

Such an electronic device would have input and output in your shoes, for example. Poking up on your toes for output and pressing your big toes down for input.

Disclosure/disclaimer: I am not well researched on any of this stuff. This is just basic theory from what I understand of what might possibly be achievable. I have never spoken with anyone who has such a device or who has even seen such a device. I do not know if such exploitation is truly possible or not or if anyone has ever successfully exploited the roulette wheel before. IE: all of the above is absolute guesswork from someone who really doesn't know what they are talking about!!! LOL. Enough disclaimer? OK... Anyway have fun and don't get in trouble or put in jail, ok?
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
• Posts: 14484
December 21st, 2012 at 3:56:42 PM permalink
Quote: Suprising6

Looking at the American Roulette wheel head, it was noticed that numbers belonging to 2nd dozen are very grouped, possibly creating a bias towards 2nd dozen.

Looking at the elevator panel, it was noticed that the numbers belonging to the 2nd dozen are very grouped, ... but this does not create any sort of bias for one of them being selected by a bouncing ball.

Whether the button has the number 17 on it or the name "Sky Lobby" does not create any sort of selection bias either.

You could replace all the numbers on a roulette wheel with girl's names but this would neither create a bias to any of those names nor would it intensify an existing bias nor would it diminish an existing bias.

All the slots on the wheel are equal to each other in probability at the time the wheel is manufactured and tested. In Days of Old, perhaps a physical bias could creep in eventually and it would eventually be noticed by the players. In modern day machining, no such bias would develop and if it did, the casino's computers would be the first to notice it well before any croupier was even able to notice it.
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
• Posts: 14484
December 21st, 2012 at 4:02:50 PM permalink
Surveillance departs seem to love "Toe Tappers". So easy to detect, so easy to convict ... and the devices are so klutzy that the darned cheats don't even win much! Often they don't win anything. Possession and use of such electronic devices are illegal, even if you get caught prior to any win at all.
AxiomOfChoice
Joined: Sep 12, 2012