Gabes22
Gabes22
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January 29th, 2016 at 10:11:04 AM permalink
Now that the moves to LA are settled with the Rams moving back next season and the Chargers moving back soon after, harkening back to their AFL days, there have been reports on ESPN and I am sure other media outlets that the Raiders front office has been in contact with Las Vegas Sands about constructing a 65,000 seat domed stadium that would be a dual purpose facility housing presumably the Raiders from the NFL and the UNLV football team. Do you see this as a realistic possibility or do you see it as the Raiders using Vegas as leverage to get something accomplished with a new stadium in Oakland?
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ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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January 29th, 2016 at 12:14:09 PM permalink
It could be a little of both - get Oakland to make some sort of commitment, but have a backup plan in case it won't.

And if the NFL complains about the fact that Vegas has sports books, I say that the response should be, "So, if the NFL is not welcome in cities with sports betting, then you're going to stop playing in London when, exactly?"

Of course, if the NFL was serious about trying to stop "the gambling problem," then what it should do is:
(a) Let a team move to Las Vegas
(b) Announce that an upcoming Super Bowl is going to be played there
(c) Have the NFL commissioner pull a "David Stern" and invoke his right to have sports books taking bets on the Super Bowl prohibited if it is played in Las Vegas
(d) Sit and wait for the response
kewlj
kewlj
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January 29th, 2016 at 12:26:07 PM permalink
I don't think Vegas has the ability to support a professional team.

First lets talk population. Yeah Vegas has what, roughly a million people in the metro area of Clark County. That is compatible with other cities that support professional teams. But other cities have surrounding suburban areas for 50-100 miles that make the pool of people it draws from many times larger.

For example, Philadelphia: Besides the metropolitan area of the city and immediate surrounding area, Philly sports teams draw from the southern half of New Jersey, northern part of Delaware, and on the Pennsylvania side 100 miles west past Harrisburg as well as 60-100 miles north to places like Allentown, Scranton, and all the small towns in between. In Vegas, you get outside the Clark County metropolitan area and you have some ranchers and cows and a lot of desert, to draw from.

In addition, Vegas has an extremely transient and poor population, unlike any other place I have seen. I think that places the "real" pool of people to draw from at a greatly reduced level.

Vegas doesn't support it's college football team all that well. I think we better see how the hockey teams does before jumping to being able to fill a 65,000 seat stadium.
DRich
DRich
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January 29th, 2016 at 12:49:53 PM permalink
I disagree with KewlJ. I don't think Vegas would have any problems supporting an NFL team.

The NFL is the easiest because you only need to sell out 8 games. With the local population, casino sponsorship, and the tourists that would plan their Vegas vacations around watching their team play I think it would do just fine.

I would expect other sports, including hockey, to fail here for the reasons KewlJ mentioned.
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MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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January 29th, 2016 at 12:53:44 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

I don't think Vegas has the ability to support a professional team.

First lets talk population. Yeah Vegas has what, roughly a million people in the metro area of Clark County. That is compatible with other cities that support professional teams. But other cities have surrounding suburban areas for 50-100 miles that make the pool of people it draws from many times larger.

For example, Philadelphia: Besides the metropolitan area of the city and immediate surrounding area, Philly sports teams draw from the southern half of New Jersey, northern part of Delaware, and on the Pennsylvania side 100 miles west past Harrisburg as well as 60-100 miles north to places like Allentown, Scranton, and all the small towns in between. In Vegas, you get outside the Clark County metropolitan area and you have some ranchers and cows and a lot of desert, to draw from.

In addition, Vegas has an extremely transient and poor population, unlike any other place I have seen. I think that places the "real" pool of people to draw from at a greatly reduced level.

Vegas doesn't support it's college football team all that well. I think we better see how the hockey teams does before jumping to being able to fill a 65,000 seat stadium.

Perhaps, but NFL games are usually on Sunday and the weekend population of Las Vegas swells by several hundred thousand people, many of whom have above-average income and are specifically there to spend it. If there is any city in the country that's able to support an NFL team without having sprawling suburbs nearby, I'd think it's Las Vegas.
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Gabes22
Gabes22
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January 29th, 2016 at 1:00:21 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

I don't think Vegas has the ability to support a professional team.

First lets talk population. Yeah Vegas has what, roughly a million people in the metro area of Clark County. That is compatible with other cities that support professional teams. But other cities have surrounding suburban areas for 50-100 miles that make the pool of people it draws from many times larger.

For example, Philadelphia: Besides the metropolitan area of the city and immediate surrounding area, Philly sports teams draw from the southern half of New Jersey, northern part of Delaware, and on the Pennsylvania side 100 miles west past Harrisburg as well as 60-100 miles north to places like Allentown, Scranton, and all the small towns in between. In Vegas, you get outside the Clark County metropolitan area and you have some ranchers and cows and a lot of desert, to draw from.

In addition, Vegas has an extremely transient and poor population, unlike any other place I have seen. I think that places the "real" pool of people to draw from at a greatly reduced level.

Vegas doesn't support it's college football team all that well. I think we better see how the hockey teams does before jumping to being able to fill a 65,000 seat stadium.



Metro Philly has about 5 million people in it, very akin to the metro areas of Atlanta, Boston etc. Vegas has a similar Metro population akin to places like Minneapolis, St Louis, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Milwaukee etc all of which support multiple sports franchises. I don't think Vegas will have trouble selling out for the NFL, plus there are active fan base chapters for just about every team out there in Vegas as well
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kewlj
kewlj
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January 29th, 2016 at 1:09:11 PM permalink
Quote: DRich



The NFL is the easiest because you only need to sell out 8 games. With the local population, casino sponsorship, and the tourists that would plan their Vegas vacations around watching their team play I think it would do just fine.



This is a valid point, DRich. For much of it's existence until recent years when they became real good, Arizona has had some of this going on. They would sell out when The Cowboys, Bears, Seattle or several other teams that travel very strong came to town, but have less support otherwise.

With Vegas being travel destination city, there would be definitely be some of that going on.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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January 29th, 2016 at 1:20:28 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Perhaps, but NFL games are usually on Sunday and the weekend population of Las Vegas swells by several hundred thousand people, many of whom have above-average income and are specifically there to spend it. If there is any city in the country that's able to support an NFL team without having sprawling suburbs nearby, I'd think it's Las Vegas.


The problem with this is, most of the "weekenders" are from Southern California, so they (a) probably will already have a team now that the Rams (and Chargers? Did I hear that right?) are moving to Los Angeles, and (b) may not want to stay in Vegas until the game ends, which is 4 PM at the very least (and you should assume that at least four home games will start at 1:25, so the earliest end time would be more like 4:30...and where would the crowd be for a Thursday / Sunday / Monday night game, although the way around that is simply not to schedule any Vegas home games except on Sunday afternoons), which means they still have a long trip home right before going to work the next day.

Still, if Las Vegas can support a NASCAR race every year, then why not an NFL team?
Gabes22
Gabes22
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January 29th, 2016 at 1:27:14 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

This is a valid point, DRich. For much of it's existence until recent years when they became real good, Arizona has had some of this going on. They would sell out when The Cowboys, Bears, Seattle or several other teams that travel very strong came to town, but have less support otherwise.

With Vegas being travel destination city, there would be definitely be some of that going on.


Yeah, I mean do the math, Vegas has what 40 million hotel visitors each year and that is 52 weeks per year so 3/4 of a million people per week with I would say at least half, if not more of that being there on the weekend
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GWAE
GWAE
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January 29th, 2016 at 1:46:22 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I disagree with KewlJ. I don't think Vegas would have any problems supporting an NFL team.

The NFL is the easiest because you only need to sell out 8 games. With the local population, casino sponsorship, and the tourists that would plan their Vegas vacations around watching their team play I think it would do just fine.

I would expect other sports, including hockey, to fail here for the reasons KewlJ mentioned.



Selling out won't be a problem but I wonder if they will have any of their own fans there?
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