The homeless in North Las Vegas
Contrast that with the nice subdivisions around Aliante.
Quote: GreasyjohnCouple weeks ago I traveled N. On Las Vegas Blvd. going from Downtown to Craig Road. I was on my way to Siegel Slots (just to pick up the free shirt they promised me when I joined their slot club months earlier), then to The Cannery. There are several areas along that stretch where groups of homeless people congregate. One area seems to allow shelters and encampments right on the sidewalks. And was that the Opera House that's all shuttered and fenced off? Anyway, it shows the bleak side of Vegas. Reminds me of The Naked City.
Contrast that with the nice subdivisions around Aliante.
Is there something attracting the homeless to that particular area? Food? Shelter? Security? If not, wouldn't the optimal strategy be to spread out as much as possible to avoid competition for scarce resources?
I expect that they would typically congregate around a food kitchen, or shelter. If not, what is the advantage in pitching your tent with a bunch of others in similar condition? Do they agree to provide security for each other, or share their resources?Quote: Gabes22In most major cities in this country there are pockets of homeless in certain areas of town. Most towns try to get them out of the major tourist areas of town.
The draw for that particular spot is the catholic charities (st Vincent's). Even though the homeless camped out on the street right there don't take advantage of the shelter facilities, they do take some of the other handouts that are offered. In addition, even though it is illegal to do so, there are several different organizations, that have food and other supply give-outs in that couple block area several times each week.
I am guessing the city tolerates it because they would rather have them up there than downtown on or close to Fremont street.
It seems to me that former mayor Oscar Goodman liked to break up these big homeless encampments, especially when tents started to go up. His wife, Carolyn Goodman, the current mayor, I guess prefers to keep them in one place, so the rest of us don't have to look at them. I prefer her way.
Quote: WizardI can't speak for the homeless, but maybe some of them prefer to be among their own. I'm sure others would prefer to be in more affluent areas for more lucrative begging territory. I see some in my north Summerlin area working the freeway off ramps.
It seems to me that former mayor Oscar Goodman liked to break up these big homeless encampments, especially when tents started to go up. His wife, Carolyn Goodman, the current mayor, I guess prefers to keep them in one place, so the rest of us don't have to look at them. I prefer her way.
Sadly I suspect, many, if not most people feel as you do. Out of sight....out of mind. :(
She avoids shelters, and would rather be on the street. Never seen her panhandling, but she'll accept whatever anyone wants to give her. Her condition is beyond bad. She looks like an animal.
I bring her something to eat, and talk with her each day for around 30 minutes. I look forward to seeing her. She's a very interesting girl, and is tougher than any person I ever met.
Quote: kewljSadly I suspect, many, if not most people feel as you do. Out of sight....out of mind. :(
Don't be sad. The latter doesn't hold fundamentally.
Everything evens out, while back again.
Only compassion, understanding and tolerance, for YOU, yourself, can break such an eternally finite cycle.
Quote: HowManyThere is a young homeless girl that I visit each trip to Vegas (every month, or two). I usually find her a couple blocks north of Fremont Street (often not far from the 7-11, or the Pump 'N Snack).
She avoids shelters, and would rather be on the street. Never seen her panhandling, but she'll accept whatever anyone wants to give her. Her condition is beyond bad. She looks like an animal.
I bring her something to eat, and talk with her each day for around 30 minutes. I look forward to seeing her. She's a very interesting girl, and is tougher than any person I ever met.
Excellent. Good for you, HowMany. I too try to talk to many of the homeless. You will be surprised at some of the stories you will here. Some might even remind you that only a small change in circumstances and it could be you there. Some of them appreciate you taking the time to talk to them as human beings more than any food or money that you might give them. A few minutes of talking to a few of these folks can also change your opinion of them as you will see that many of them have serious mental health issues that obviously aren't being addressed.
And of course many more have drug/alcohol issues, mixed in with mental issues and while many folks like to turn there back on these people and say it is of there own making (and often it is), by spending a few minutes with them, you will realize many are beyond helping themselves out of such a situation. They truly need help. Not the kind of help that you or I give by offering them some food or a few bucks, but real help to get back on track. As a society and still a great society, we should do better.
There are also a lot of organizations who are willing to send out a bulk donation / volunteers into a group situation because the logistics are so much easier, but aren't willing to go looking for individuals, both for personal safety and for time considerations. I think that's a behavior/response issue that encourages congregation over time, because individuals hear on the street that "if you're in such-and-such a place on Tuesdays, there's a donation food truck" or whatever, and eventually they join the group.
We should, in fact, do better. It's a crime for anyone to go hungry in this country. But I also have to respect that there are folks on the street because they want to be unencumbered by home rental/ownership/material things. Lots of others are there involuntarily, but not all.
Quote: Wizard
It seems to me that former mayor Oscar Goodman liked to break up these big homeless encampments, especially when tents started to go up. His wife, Carolyn Goodman, the current mayor, I guess prefers to keep them in one place, so the rest of us don't have to look at them. I prefer her way.
In any city your going to have homeless, there is a reason for a lot of it and it goes back to our mental health hospitals or lack of them.
Our government would rather have them living on the street then giving them the mental health care they need.
There are a lot of our Vets now living on the streets because when they came back from war our government didn't do their part in giving them the help they needed to return to society.
Our VA hospitals and have been a disgrace for years and our government haven't done anything about it.
The down turn in our economy put a lot of families on the street that were living from week to week. Let them be a stark reminder that it can happen to any one!
Quote: beachbumbabsI think if they congregate, they can share (and receive) what they have. A surprising amount of them are very generous with even the smallest amount of money or food, perhaps because they're so often without.
You're right. Seems like people with little to nothing are the most generous. I will share a story.
I saw a black homeless man near Fremont East several times during a recent trip. I walked by this guy at least 6 times. Each time he would ask if I had any change. I ignored him completely.
On the final day of my trip, I was inside the McDonalds (at The D). I was counting spare change- trying to come up with enough loose change to pay for my coffee. When I finished counting, I said to the girl behind the counter "I'm $0.14 cents short."
As I reached for my wallet, the black homeless guy that I ignored for two days handed me a quarter.
And I had about $3,000 cash in my pocket at the time.
Quote: HowManyYou're right. Seems like people with little to nothing are the most generous. I will share a story.
I saw a black homeless man near Fremont East several times during a recent trip. I walked by this guy at least 6 times. Each time he would ask if I had any change. I ignored him completely.
On the final day of my trip, I was inside the McDonalds (at The D). I was counting spare change- trying to come up with enough loose change to pay for my coffee. When I finished counting, I said to the girl behind the counter "I'm $0.14 cents short."
As I reached for my wallet, the black, homeless guy that I ignored for two days handed me a quarter.
And I had about $3,000 cash in my pocket at the time.
Great story. How did you handle it.
Quote: kewljGreat story. How did you handle it.
I knew someone would ask. I didn't handle it well, at all. Wish I had a "do over."
I gave him all the spare change- only around $2. I paid for my coffee with a $20, and I kept the change.
I really fk'd up. If I could go back, I'd give the guy $100.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/aug/20/san-francisco-threatens-sue-over-influx-nevada-pat/
Quote: kewljSome might even remind you that only a small change in circumstances and it could be you there.
I'm just not sure that this is true. To be living on the street you have to have zero savings, lose your job, be unable to find another job, AND burn every bridge with friends and family so no one will let you crash. I can imagine getting to the point that I would kick friends/family out of my home knowing they would end up on the street, but the person would have to be quite the a-hole.
Quote: bigfoot66I'm just not sure that this is true.
FWIW, the worst of the rich are also the worst of the poor.
The ones who forgot from where they came... nothing.
thing is, some people never had friends and family. And there are numerous people who hold minimum wage jobs and live out of their barely running car in metropolitan areas. Most people would have to lose a lot and make numerous bad decisions to be homeless, for others it doesn't take more than one or two bad decisions or unfortunate breaks.Quote: bigfoot66I'm just not sure that this is true. To be living on the street you have to have zero savings, lose your job, be unable to find another job, AND burn every bridge with friends and family so no one will let you crash. I can imagine getting to the point that I would kick friends/family out of my home knowing they would end up on the street, but the person would have to be quite the a-hole.
Quote: bigfoot66I'm just not sure that this is true. To be living on the street you have to have zero savings, lose your job, be unable to find another job, AND burn every bridge with friends and family so no one will let you crash. I can imagine getting to the point that I would kick friends/family out of my home knowing they would end up on the street, but the person would have to be quite the a-hole.
Imagine being at a large company party with friends and family and the bosses two daughters come out screaming maniacally FALSELY accusing you of child molestation and your wife who has joint checking, has been screwing your boss, has already filed for divorce and demanding complete custody of your kids [because they are not safe around you] demanding her half which simple math tells you is more like 85%.
So in one fell swoop, your boss fires you, your wife files for complete custody, possession of everything, plus child support and alimony. When you finally get your mail, you find out somehow your last tax return was messed up, [the accountant misplaced a decimal point] so the irs wants back taxes, fines and penalties, maybe jail time after you get out for the the false charges with the sophomoric little brats, who are still giggling about the trouble they got you in. Also the results from your ct scan comes back and there is a strange mass or two, your white blood count is through the roof and your old wardrobe, if you are lucky you can pick up at the Goodwill for ten cents on the dollar. Some loony won't stfu, you got a splitting headache and it looks like it's about to rain.
Your ex has your daughter brainwashed and when you see her she just glares and purses her lips through the new orthodontia because of "how you treated mom".
**** me, that's the second time that kid has needed braces. And, you are liable for it all. With any luck you won't have to pay for your ex's new boobs, tummy tuck and face lift. God willing.
Now you got no money or credit , and all possessions you thought you had, are now being enjoyed by your old boss who has his feet up on your favorite end table, drinking your booze. Your resume now sucks, all your old friends don't know what to believe, but the accusations are so heinous it takes an incredibly brave person to take a chance, especially when they have daughters of their own, and their wife is giving them the stink eye just for considering letting you take a shower and sleep out in the rv. Your best bud takes you aside and says how sorry he is and " I hope you will understand" yada yada.
It is terrifying how fast our entire reality can do a 180 and walking around with a slack jawed look wondering whether or not you got the oompf to go get a second opinion on your blood work, when people see you they just assume what they see, is you. And that is if someone on the street hasn't mugged you and taken out a few front teeth, making you sound like daffy duck.
As we like to say in the biz, hero to asshole in sixty seconds. Three months later living in an abandoned car hanging out with the bums and picking up cans you will be questioning whether or not just being gay may have been a better choice.
Quote: kewljSadly I suspect, many, if not most people feel as you do. Out of sight....out of mind. :(
I admire everybody who helps out the homeless in any way other than giving beggars money. Do I do that? No. I guess I'm selfish and value my time too much. Would I rather live where I do than Skid Row? Yes. I hope I at least get points for honesty.
And do those who continually work with those folks and their individual issues daily advocate doing that? No, they do not. Let me rephrase that: Hell no! They plead, they advertise, they lecture, they cajole, they constantly do everything in their power in communities across the country to try to get people to PLEASE STOP DOING THAT. It is destructive; sometimes it even kills.Quote: WizardDo I do that? No
Quote: DrawingDeadNo, they do not. Let me rephrase that: Hell no! They plead, they advertise, they lecture, they cajole, they constantly do everything in their power in communities across the country to try to get people to PLEASE STOP DOING THAT. It is destructive; sometimes it even kills.
I understand why people give (there are more than one reason actually), but free form or unstructured giving doesn't encourage anything except the same thing.
Quote: HowManyYou're right. Seems like people with little to nothing are the most generous. I will share a story.
I saw a black homeless man near Fremont East several times during a recent trip. I walked by this guy at least 6 times. Each time he would ask if I had any change. I ignored him completely.
On the final day of my trip, I was inside the McDonalds (at The D). I was counting spare change- trying to come up with enough loose change to pay for my coffee. When I finished counting, I said to the girl behind the counter "I'm $0.14 cents short."
As I reached for my wallet, the black homeless guy that I ignored for two days handed me a quarter.
And I had about $3,000 cash in my pocket at the time.
Wow, he gave you a quarter and got two bucks in return. Sounds like an AP. Come on. Pretty sure that was his plan. You make it sound like he was generous, and not manipulative. In my experience, homeless people are even more interested in getting a free cigarette than money. Government gives you $200 for food every month if your homeless, all you got to do is fill out the application. Free medicine and doctors. Fill out the app. You're homeless--you probably have mental issues, here's your disability and Section 8 housing. MAKE SURE TO FILL OUT THE APP! Most homeless people aren't there for following the rules.
You're safe inside a casino at McDonalds (not necessarily in a bathroom). Homeless people can be dangerous. Don't accept anything from them. Don't give anything to them. Don't acknowledge them, unless it's absolutely necessary. If you wanna help, give to a charity or volunteer at a soup kitchen. Wanna end up robbed and dead, be nice to homeless people you meet in the ally.
At one time Downtown was encircled with homeless camps. It was the Fremont Street Experience that changed all that. Breaking up those homeless camps was part of an overall attempt by the city to clean up downtown. DT had been losing revenue to the strip for a lot of years. Benny Binion didn't have to compete against the big strip resorts. He died in 1989, the year the first megaresort, Mirage opened. The cops harassed the homeless out of downtown. If they camp up around St. Vincent's they don't get harrassed.
Most all the homeless services are run out of an office in the St. Vincents building.
There is a camaraderie amongst the homeless. They're just hanging with like kind.
Meals. This is how it used to be. St. Vincent's served a breakfast meal of milk and pastry every morning. Then they served lunch at noon. Up around the corner on Owens the Salvation Army served a meal at 3 PM. And they had a day shelter there where you could get a free shower. Then the walk wasn't that far to the Las Vegas Rescue Mission on Bananza for the 5 PM meal.
Before they broke up the homeless camps around downtown and right after Bill Clinton got elected he visited Las Vegas. The cops broke up our homeless camp between The Plaza and the freeway and told us not to come back until Clinton had left town. There was a new municipal building on Bonneville that Clinton was going to visit and they didn't want him to look out a window and see our homeless camp. This is the best thing to do I guess. Hide the problem from the POTUS and any other distinguished guests who visit Las Vegas.
And I often walk questionable areas with lots of cash.
Some panhandlers can be aggressive, but they position themselves in highly populated areas.
The homeless people are not aggressive in my experience.
Quote: SonuvabishWow, he gave you a quarter and got two bucks in return. Sounds like an AP. Come on. Pretty sure that was his plan. You make it sound like he was generous, and not manipulative. In my experience, homeless people are even more interested in getting a free cigarette than money. Government gives you $200 for food every month if your homeless, all you got to do is fill out the application. Free medicine and doctors. Fill out the app. You're homeless--you probably have mental issues, here's your disability and Section 8 housing. MAKE SURE TO FILL OUT THE APP! Most homeless people aren't there for following the rules.
You're safe inside a casino at McDonalds (not necessarily in a bathroom). Homeless people can be dangerous. Don't accept anything from them. Don't give anything to them. Don't acknowledge them, unless it's absolutely necessary. If you wanna help, give to a charity or volunteer at a soup kitchen. Wanna end up robbed and dead, be nice to homeless people you meet in the ally.
Something we can agree on. Great Post!
A few years back I was in Washington DC, at the counter of McDonald's just outside the Verizon Center. That area (at the time) was undergoing some fairly rapid gentrification, but still had many homeless folks about. An obviously homeless man came right up to me, at the counter, and openly asked for money. When I told him I'd buy him a cheeseburger instead, he became belligerent and tried to get in my face. At that point, the manager came over and told him in no uncertain terms to stop harassing customers and get his rear end out of the store.
We never know the circumstances that led to a person being on the street. Giving them money is definitely not a good idea. I see nothing wrong with giving up food if someone is hungry.
Quote: WizardI can't speak for the homeless, but maybe some of them prefer to be among their own. I'm sure others would prefer to be in more affluent areas for more lucrative begging territory. I see some in my north Summerlin area working the freeway off ramps.
I think they prefer to be among their own but on their own. Shelters of any kind tend to be dangerous places to be. Many homeless are so afraid of them that it has to be really, really bad weather for them to stay there. Think about yourself, what would you feel is safer, a shelter of dozens where everything is open or your own little niche that few know about.
I think small bands may team up and live in an area. Guys looking out for each other.
Vegas will always be a homeless-magnet for many reasons. No harsh winter. Lots of freebies at casinos. Steady supply of tourists to prey upon for charity to crime. But it has other features. Relatively isolated it will be harder to drift in and drift out. When you are there you will stay there, and if gone you will stay gone. Then there are the dreamers who enter town and just cannot make it work for themselves. Younger women can probably always find some guy to mooch off, everyone else who chases the dream and fails will have it harder.
I think Oscar has the better idea. If the camps get too big then they become too hard to manage. Plus small camps can be rousted every now and then. If they are in just a few a roust becomes more problematic in may ways.
Quote: petroglyphImagine being at a large company party with friends and family and the bosses two daughters come out screaming maniacally FALSELY accusing you of child molestation and your wife who has joint checking, has been screwing your boss, has already filed for divorce and demanding complete custody of your kids [because they are not safe around you] demanding her half which simple math tells you is more like 85%.
So in one fell swoop, your boss fires you, your wife files for complete custody, possession of everything, plus child support and alimony. When you finally get your mail, you find out somehow your last tax return was messed up, [the accountant misplaced a decimal point] so the irs wants back taxes, fines and penalties, maybe jail time after you get out for the the false charges with the sophomoric little brats, who are still giggling about the trouble they got you in. Also the results from your ct scan comes back and there is a strange mass or two, your white blood count is through the roof and your old wardrobe, if you are lucky you can pick up at the Goodwill for ten cents on the dollar. Some loony won't stfu, you got a splitting headache and it looks like it's about to rain.
Your ex has your daughter brainwashed and when you see her she just glares and purses her lips through the new orthodontia because of "how you treated mom".
**** me, that's the second time that kid has needed braces. And, you are liable for it all. With any luck you won't have to pay for your ex's new boobs, tummy tuck and face lift. God willing.
Now you got no money or credit , and all possessions you thought you had, are now being enjoyed by your old boss who has his feet up on your favorite end table, drinking your booze. Your resume now sucks, all your old friends don't know what to believe, but the accusations are so heinous it takes an incredibly brave person to take a chance, especially when they have daughters of their own, and their wife is giving them the stink eye just for considering letting you take a shower and sleep out in the rv. Your best bud takes you aside and says how sorry he is and " I hope you will understand" yada yada.
It is terrifying how fast our entire reality can do a 180 and walking around with a slack jawed look wondering whether or not you got the oompf to go get a second opinion on your blood work, when people see you they just assume what they see, is you. And that is if someone on the street hasn't mugged you and taken out a few front teeth, making you sound like daffy duck.
As we like to say in the biz, hero to asshole in sixty seconds. Three months later living in an abandoned car hanging out with the bums and picking up cans you will be questioning whether or not just being gay may have been a better choice.
EH, this would be an incredible run of bad luck, akin to losing 100 hands of BJ in a row....In other words, close to impossible. The scenario you laid out requires a lot of terribly improbable events happening at the same time. Still, even then, don't you have a sympathetic brother or buddy who will let you crash? Even if your scenario is possible, it describes what happened to like 1 guy in the history of man. It does not describe the reality of homelessness.
Quote: BozSomething we can agree on. Great Post!
Bout time. Ty
Quote: SonuvabishBout time. Ty
What does Ty mean?
Quote: GreasyjohnWhat does Ty mean?
You're as bad as I am with abbreviations. :-) I think I got this one. I'm gonna go with thank you.
Quote: 1BBYou're as bad as I am with abbreviations. :-) I think I got this one. I'm gonna go with thank you.
Ty 1BB
Quote: bigfoot66EH, this would be an incredible run of bad luck, akin to losing 100 hands of BJ in a row....In other words, close to impossible. The scenario you laid out requires a lot of terribly improbable events happening at the same time. Still, even then, don't you have a sympathetic brother or buddy who will let you crash? Even if your scenario is possible, it describes what happened to like 1 guy in the history of man. It does not describe the reality of homelessness.
You are right, it was a way to long winded, fictional story, of how fast fortunes can change.
Without me being even more long winded it is amazing how fast reality can take a 180.
Quote: pewHomelessness as a lifestyle is something altogether different.
I'll believe that when we finally achieve a truly open and free society.
The reason that so many hate and avoid the poor in one way or another is that also they are just a part of the food chain, and can't face up to their own inadequacies and indiscretions.
Quote: bigfoot66Quote: petroglyph
EH, this would be an incredible run of bad luck, akin to losing 100 hands of BJ in a row....In other words, close to impossible. The scenario you laid out requires a lot of terribly improbable events happening at the same time. Still, even then, don't you have a sympathetic brother or buddy who will let you crash? Even if your scenario is possible, it describes what happened to like 1 guy in the history of man. It does not describe the reality of homelessness.
Although that particular scenerio might be a little far fetched this is the reality most small business people face all the time. All your assetts are tied up in your business and one call from the bank and your house, business, job are all gone. Maybe even your spouse if they aren't supportive. Happens all the time.
This is real life for the big bad bosses that rip everybody off.Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
Quote: pewPeople are free to be homeless in this open society.
Strange sort of freedom. Naturally deflective.
The same sort as protects the leeches of society. The real blood suckers.
That's right. It runs the whole spectrum. People move in and out of different situations and lifestyles all the time. Rich to poor we're all one. God bless the USA!Quote: KerkebetStrange sort of freedom. Naturally deflective.
The same sort as protects the leeches of society. The real blood suckers.
Quote: pewA "normal" person can fall into homelessness for various reasons but won't stay that way. Homelessness as a lifestyle is something altogether different.
This is true, has even happened to famous people. Holly from The Price is Right lived in her car for some amount of time after leaving the show. Some long term homeless belong in the nut house, others are societal drop-outs.
Quote: pewPeople are free to be homeless in this open society.
I don't agree. Took this criminal law class. Burglary and arson were the topic. People were arguing if you "break-in" to a homeless man's cardboard box, steal worthless junk, then set his box on fire, you've committed burglary and felony arson. I, on the other hand, was of the opinion that cardboard boxes are not dwellings, and that people do not have the right to take up residence on public streets.
We have vagrancy and loitering laws. You're not free to be homeless. Not everyone can live a great lifestyle, or even a mediocre one. But there are ways to keep off the streets. In my humble opinion, most homeless people either ignore or are ignorant of what they should do. They choose not to deal with the man, and panhandle or steal instead.
But without a permit, you're not free to be homeless. It's tolerated, much like speeding. It happens so much, they aren't 100% strict about the limits.
Quote: kenarman
Although that particular scenerio might be a little far fetched this is the reality most small business people face all the time. All your assetts are tied up in your business and one call from the bank and your house, business, job are all gone. Maybe even your spouse if they aren't supportive. Happens all the time.
This is real life for the big bad bosses that rip everybody off.
You make some fine points but we are talking about homelessness as a larger issue. The vast majority of homelessness is self inflicted and a result of a series of bad decisions. Many are mentally ill and we ought to help them. Many are otherwise sane people who are addicts--you can't help addicts unless they are really ready to change.
This whole conversation about how some great, energetic, entrepreneurs end up homeless is kind of a waste of time. It's like if I said that most radical Islamists are Arab and people argue back, "well I know a guy who grew up in Huntington Beach, went to UNLV, started reading the Koran, and now he is working directly for ISIS. He was my business partners' nephew. White kid, state Champ in surfing in high school." Yes, there are exceptions to general statements but if we are looking to find potential recruits for ISIS, can we agree that we should spend our time within 500 miles of Mecca and not in Orange County?
If they're in a group they're less likely to be beaten/killed for fun.
Quote: SonuvabishI don't agree. Took this criminal law class. Burglary and arson were the topic. People were arguing if you "break-in" to a homeless man's cardboard box, steal worthless junk, then set his box on fire, you've committed burglary and felony arson. I, on the other hand, was of the opinion that cardboard boxes are not dwellings, and that people do not have the right to take up residence on public streets.
We have vagrancy and loitering laws. You're not free to be homeless. Not everyone can live a great lifestyle, or even a mediocre one. But there are ways to keep off the streets. In my humble opinion, most homeless people either ignore or are ignorant of what they should do. They choose not to deal with the man, and panhandle or steal instead.
But without a permit, you're not free to be homeless. It's tolerated, much like speeding. It happens so much, they aren't 100% strict about the limits.
You have no clue The homeless are so domicile. The crooks all have roofs over their heads.
