Blackjack Tipping

I'm sure this question is asked a lot but it also seems to be answered in a lot of ways so I am hoping to get a more definitive answer so I wont feel foolish the next time I am in Vegas. It is important to me to tip the right amount and in the right way without disrupting other players or the dealer.

On the wizardofodds.com site, it says "There is no firm social norm but I suggest about one half your average bet per hour. The smaller your average bet the greater the ratio of tip to bet should be." In other places I have read that you should tip 5 dollars every half hour. In yet other places I have read you should tip 1 to 2 dollars per hand (which I think would come out to a lot more than half of my average hand per hour unless we are playing at a snail's pace).

Going off the general rule of half yer bet per hour and planning to bet $50 per hand that would put me at $25 per hour. I feel that the least disruptive way to bet would be to place a bet for them. So my initial plan would be once every 10 minutes or so to place a 5 dollar bet for the dealer. If I had a miserable dealer, maybe I wouldn't be so worried about tipping every 10 minutes exactly.

My goal is to encourage a friendly dealer and tip frequently enough that I wont accidentally tip in a disproportional way due to dealer rotations. My concerns are that I either wouldn't be tipping enough or that I would be tipping in increments that would make too much additional work for the dealer and should instead do something like place a $15 bet for the dealer every 30 minutes.

In particular I am eager to hear from any dealers out there.

*edit* Also, am I suppose to tip the people who work the cages?

A tip is a tip, so ask yourself, "why am I tipping?" Are you playing pitch, and does the dealer cut favorably for you? ie... a little deeper penetration, which is good for you ? Are they saving you from a stupid move because you are distracted? ie... hitting when you shouldn't according to BS? Were they simply friendly and nice to have at your game? Now what is that worth to you?

As I am sure everyone else on the board has, I have almost everything when it comes to tips. I watched a player make a 5$ bet every single hand for the dealer, their bet ranged from 10$ to 85 or so, just randomly raising their bet. That seemed rather excessive to me. Ive seen a certain ethnic race not tip a single buck on some pretty hefty wins, had a floor person point it out to me, and have him mention he doesn't tip a cent when he dines at their restaurants.

Me, Im usually good for about 1% of my win, if the dealer is friendly and makes it fun to be on the table. If the dealer isnt fun, I wont normally tip. Funny tho, I usually play at tables where I like and know the dealer.

Same basic rule at the cage. How was the individual you dealt with? friendly? helpful? quick? I usually wont tip at the cage, If I do its a buck maybe 2, or the silver I have left hanging around if there is any.

How much do you tip your paperboy on an monthly basis? do they even have those anymore? Your barber or hair dresser? The punks at Subway with a tip jar out? Tip whatever you feel comfortable tipping. Some say TIPS stands for To Insure Proper Service... so how was it?

My tip to the dealers is always the same, eat your vegetables and save your money. :)

Remember, dealers make minimum wage. The position is a fairly skilled position, so it is not the same a flipping burgers. Basically this job one of those designed to where the person makes their living off of tips. If the casino was to pay them the equivalent wage that they usually average with the tips, the costs would be passed on to the customers. Same with restaurants and their waitstaff or bartenders. I consider it not necessarily as a "reward" for great service, but as a cost to ensure good service. Only if I receive horrible service (very slow drink/food orders or a dealer that does not interact at all with the players) will I skip or drastically reduce the tip amount.

Now with the tipping amount. First off is it a casino with pooled tips or do the dealers keep their own? I always ask a dealer when I go to a place. If they pool their tips, then usually $5/hour minimum is just fine. Of course if you give it as one $5 chip that can look cheap if the dealers rotate tables every 20-30 minutes, which might mean that there will be a few dealers that think you don't tip at all. In that case, you might want to tip each dealer a buck or two when either they tap in or off the table. If they keep their own, then try to give them maybe $2 for their time on the table (usually 20 minute rounds, so that is $6/hr total between 3 dealers).

The cage cashiers tend to make the majority of their tips from the dealers when they cash out their tips, so don't worry too much about tipping the cashiers. If your cashout involves a couple of singles, that would be really the only amount to worry about giving them, unless you are feeling generous.

Yes, there will be a lot of dealers (especially in places where they keep their own tips and don't pool them) that look at tipping as if it should be a % of your win, especially on any jackpot payouts and if they feel you are being "cheap" with them, they can get sour. That is probably the biggest downside to a place that lets the dealers keep their own tips. In pooled places, they don't always act so greedy, but the downside to pooled tips is that you tend to encounter more dealers that don't seem to care at all about customer interaction.

About tipping the dealers for "hooking you up" on the tables (good penetration), dealers do get audited for this stuff and if they are seen to not follow whatever the house procedure is, they risk losing shifts or their job. They aren't trying to screw you over, they are just following instructions. Same with calling out "checks play" or "black in action". They are just trying to pay the rent, same as everyone else. A good dealer should be on your side to keep you from making some mistakes, though.

Ask yourself why you are tipping, and then you'll come up with the amount to tip per hour.

Personally, at BJ, I make a $1 tip bet every time there is a new dealer. I do this to let him/her know that I'm a tipper, and it usually results in a friendly personality. If not, that's the last tip for that dealer. If the dealer IS friendly, I'll keep making the bet every time my hand wins. When I lose, I'll stop for a few hands.

Quote: kulin

I'm sure this question is asked a lot but it also seems to be answered in a lot of ways so I am hoping to get a more definitive answer so I wont feel foolish the next time I am in Vegas. It is important to me to tip the right amount and in the right way without disrupting other players or the dealer.

On the wizardofodds.com site, it says "There is no firm social norm but I suggest about one half your average bet per hour. The smaller your average bet the greater the ratio of tip to bet should be." In other places I have read that you should tip 5 dollars every half hour. In yet other places I have read you should tip 1 to 2 dollars per hand (which I think would come out to a lot more than half of my average hand per hour unless we are playing at a snail's pace).

Going off the general rule of half yer bet per hour and planning to bet $50 per hand that would put me at $25 per hour. I feel that the least disruptive way to bet would be to place a bet for them. So my initial plan would be once every 10 minutes or so to place a 5 dollar bet for the dealer. If I had a miserable dealer, maybe I wouldn't be so worried about tipping every 10 minutes exactly.

My goal is to encourage a friendly dealer and tip frequently enough that I wont accidentally tip in a disproportional way due to dealer rotations. My concerns are that I either wouldn't be tipping enough or that I would be tipping in increments that would make too much additional work for the dealer and should instead do something like place a $15 bet for the dealer every 30 minutes.

In particular I am eager to hear from any dealers out there.

*edit* Also, am I suppose to tip the people who work the cages?

Tipping is a personal decision and you should never be intimidated or pressured into doing so. Most but not all dealers will be appreciative of anything you give them. Some players tip every so many hands, some place bets for the dealer while others wait until the end of their play. Waiting until the end won't necessarily "insure prompt service" however you won't waste tips on an undeserving dealer.

I have a non-counting friend who flat bets $10 and gives the extra $5 from every one of his blackjacks to the dealer. He knows the math and is fine with it. Do the math at 100 hands per hour on the $1, $2 or $5 per hand tip and you'll see it's not the way to go.

Make your tips work for you. Tip when the floor is watching. Many are dual rate and may give your comp rate an extra nudge. Save a tip for when you color up so the floor will see that as well. Make a little production out of it by telling the floor and the dealer how much you enjoyed their hospitality. A little schmoozing can go a long way.

Tip the cage cashiers as often and as much as you would tip the tellers at your bank.

My own tipping formula is rather simple:

Average bets per hour multiplied by zero = blackjack dealer tip.

Funny thing is, no matter how large or small my average bet; the tip is always ZERO. The casino should pay a higher wage for this "skilled position."

Quote: DanMahowny

My own tipping formula is rather simple:

Average bets per hour multiplied by zero = blackjack dealer tip.

Funny thing is, no matter how large or small my average bet; the tip is always ZERO. The casino should pay a higher wage for this "skilled position."

Anyone who has read my posts knows that I don't tip and don't apologize for it.

Welcome to the non-tipping camp,Dan and rainman! May you enjoy all that saved money as much as I do.

Quote: brianparkes

The cage cashiers tend to make the majority of their tips from the dealers when they cash out their tips, so don't worry too much about tipping the cashiers.

I am not sure where you play, but the dealers at every casino I have played at over the last 25 years put their tips in a box, and are shared. I didn't think they 'cash out', but rather get the tips in their regular check, with appropriate taxes taken out, etc. PaiGowDan? Am i correct?

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Please don't let this thread degrade into a pissing match about whether dealers should be tipped.

The original poster indicated that he wants to tip, but wants to know what is a good method and amount.

Can't we keep it simple and civilized and just answer the question?

Point taken. Thanks.

My comment wasn't intended to start any debate. I just wanted to point out that not tipping dealers is a viable option.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

... And I do it as a bet when the count is positive and therefore both me and the dealer have the edge and not the house.

Understood.

On the topic of doing it when the dealer has an advantage, I'd love to know if my craps dealer toke advantage bet works outside of Atlantic City....

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Understood.

On the topic of doing it when the dealer has an advantage, I'd love to know if my craps dealer toke advantage bet works outside of Atlantic City....

You don't take your own advice. This thread is about blackjack tipping not craps.

Are you one of our secret moderators?

Quote: DanMahowny

Point taken. Thanks.

My comment wasn't intended to start any debate. I just wanted to point out that not tipping dealers is a viable option.

Tipping a waitress, taxi driver, cocktail waitress, etc are all optional. Have never understood the logic behind guys who tip them, but never a dealer! WTF, especially counters. I mean here's the guy without whom you can not win a cent, and him you screw. So any non-tippers who fall in this category. SCREW YOU !

Quote: buzzpaff

Tipping a waitress, taxi driver, cocktail waitress, etc are all optional. Have never understood the logic behind guys who tip them, but never a dealer! WTF, especially counters. I mean here's the guy without whom you can not win a cent, and him you screw. So any non-tippers who fall in this category. SCREW YOU !

If your name was boymimbo, you'd get a 3 day suspension for that.

This was not aimed at any one person. Just a comment on counters who proudly tip everyone but the dealer. Like he does not have a family to support !!
Seems they can count ok when playing BJ, but can not keep a separate account to tip with.

Most of the tip everybody but the dealer counters I have known fall into the same category.

Born on third base, and think they have hit a triple.

I am done with this thread. But 3 days is a cheap price for expressing my opinion !

Quote: 1BB

You don't take your own advice. This thread is about blackjack tipping not craps.

My advice was to avoid the tip / no tip debate that often ensues.

Posting a link to my craps toke idea falls within the orignal poster's intention of finding good methods to tip for those inclined to do so.

I tend to add $5 on top of my bet early in my session (when the pit staff who is rating me is watching) and let it stay up until it loses. If and when I tip after that depends on if the dealer provides exceptional service. If they are fun and engaging, I tend to tip more. If they are robots or very rude (to myself or others at the table) I tend to tip less.

I also tend to tip a lot more when tips are not pooled. If dealers keep their own, I find myself being a little more generous.

I tend to tip better at the dice table than at blackjack. $5 on the line here and there. If someone else is tipping on the line I might suggest they put it as odds on my line tip instead.

I always tip a buck or two for a winning hand in the poker room.

I want to thank everyone for their replies.

Unfortunately this doesn't really seem to have cleared anything up other than don't tip the cashiers at the cage unless you have a real reason to. Accepting that quantity is some intangible number that we cannot really lock down, what about frequency? If being tipped the same amount, would a dealer prefer it spread out or all at once? Or is a tip a tip and they don't care how it's parceled out?

I would say all at once and early in the session. That way they hope that you will tip them more later.

In reference to frequency, it depends on how much you prefer to tip each dealer. If you want to cap yourself to $5/hr or a couple bucks per dealer, then giving half the tip in the beginning of their push would, then the rest at the end would be best. If you wait to give the other half at the end, you can determine if their attitude was deserving of the tip (good conversation, seemed to care about your losses and cheered your wins, etc). Just like a server is tipped basically on speed of delivery and accuracy, a dealer's primary job in relation to their customers is ensuring that the customer is getting their full entertainment value and that there were no mistakes. If you have to spend effort to watch to make sure they aren't screwing up, that takes away from your entertainment value.

If you are placing toke wagers for the dealer instead of giving it directly to them, the the best way is to place multiple wagers for them spread out during their push. If you have a small budget and you are placing $1 tips, most dealers prefer that it is placed on an odds based payout hand (if you are playing them). Putting $1 on the outcome of the blackjack hand is just fine, too. If the hand wins, then they get $2 for your $1 spent, but of course it is not a guaranteed bet. Most dealers are just fine with that risk, though. I agree with the idea that if you are tracking the count to place your toke bets when the count is positive since it gives them a higher probablility of collecting the tip (along with you winning the hand).

Overall, a tip is a tip and as long as one is offered, that is all that matters. The dealer will appreciate it in one lump sum, multiple small ones, or multiple small toke bets. You are not there to individually pay their rent, only to be one of the many small amount of tips that (hopefully) add up to amount they can live on. If you watch high stakes poker on TV (cash games) you can see that even though they are wagering hundreds of thousands of dollars, when they tip it is still just a red chip or two at a time. Only the really greedy dealers will bitch and moan about the small tips, and if they do, they shouldn't be dealing anyway. It's an entertainment/service job and not an entitlement that the players are required to give a certain % of their winnings to the dealer. That's the IRS's job :)

I understand the policy of the advantage players, though. They are playing for the sake of profit exclusively, and in those cases it is all about making money (just like the casinos). It is tough to explain why they will tip servers, but not dealers though, since the dealers are just trying to earn a paycheck. If the casino had to raise their wages if they didn't collect tips, the casino would have to make up that cost. If you think 6:5 is bad, just imagine the games they would offer if they had to earn even more to pay the dealers? Forget games with 2-4% house edge, they'd be 7-11% games. Unless your complaint is that so much of the money casinos make goes to so few people (CEO's / Shareholders). If that is the case, go join up with the OWS people. It is what it is for now.

Quote: kulin

I want to thank everyone for their replies.

Unfortunately this doesn't really seem to have cleared anything up other than don't tip the cashiers at the cage unless you have a real reason to. Accepting that quantity is some intangible number that we cannot really lock down, what about frequency? If being tipped the same amount, would a dealer prefer it spread out or all at once? Or is a tip a tip and they don't care how it's parceled out?

As a dealer this is what I suggest: Tip 1-3 hands per shoe, no matter how big your bet is, if you're tipping regularly a dollar should suffice at most places. If it's higher end with bigger action, you may need to go to $2-3. I would either, hand in the dollar after each of the first two or three winning hands, OR put $1 on top of your bet and give them the buck, rather than making the separate dealer bet. I hate the dealer bets.

I don't know of anything that would irritate the dealers in terms of tipping.. As long as they're getting some money, they'll tolerate just about anything, even when it means working a lot harder.

There's also something I call "fake tipping". One night I was dealing Ultimate Texas Hold Em. Every time this guy got a flush, he'd get an extra $2.50 which he put as a tip for me on the trips on the next hand. This must've happened 10 times throughout the night, but it didn't hit ONCE. So basically I dealt to the same guy for about 6 hours and made maybe a total $15, just because he handed in a couple times. Just because your trying to tip by making a dealer bet, doesn't make it the same as the dealer actually getting the tip. If the dealer bets don't win, you should still give the dealer something. If they do hit, and hit for pretty big money, then you're set. It would've been much better if he had given $1.50 and let $1 play on the trips.



Now what I do when I play is, whenever I get a Blackjack, I give the dealer $.50 and put $2 on top of my bet. If I win again, I stack $1 and give $1 to dealer. If win the next, stack $2 and give the dealer $1..

Kulin your question was answered perfectly by all who replied. there is no right
or wrong or formula for tipping . Do whatever you want, tip dont tip, tip big tip small tip because the dealers hot . Its your cash and everyone wants a piece.

Quote: ewjones080

There's also something I call "fake tipping".

there is also something called "being an ingrate"

Quote: ewjones080

There's also something I call "fake tipping". One night I was dealing Ultimate Texas Hold Em. Every time this guy got a flush, he'd get an extra $2.50 which he put as a tip for me on the trips on the next hand. This must've happened 10 times throughout the night, but it didn't hit ONCE.

Them's fighting words, ewjones. Each time that player put that $2.50 down for YOU, it was probably worth $2.30 or so for you. He tipped you $23.00. Over the course of eternity, if every player tipped as this guy did, you would get around $23 from each of these generous sorts. Sometimes you may get a big zippo, but sometimes you'll get a big hit. It will average out to the $2.30 per shot. If this happened over 6 hours, he was tipping you $4 per hour. If 6 players were tipping the same at your table, you were generating $24 per hour in tips.
For someone who is on a gambling forum, and who actually deals games, your lack of understanding of this simple concept is appalling. And your attitude toward this player, who was betting for you when he absolutely didn't have to, is equally appalling.

I know making bets for the dealer is a common practice. However, all bets in the casino have a negative expectation, including bets aplced for the dealer. The difference would seem to be the dealer isn't risking his or her money on such bets, therefore the bets that do win (and some innevitably do), are all "profit."

I odn't know how the math comes out,a dn there are philosophical questions involved, too. But I prefer to give the dealer a straight tip rather than gamble it. I have placed bets for the dealers in Rapid Craps ($2 on the pass line), but if they don't hit I feel I should tip them straight anyway. That means I wind up using more money for tips than I intended,a nd the dealer gets less money as well. So I keep coming back to straight tipping.

On the other hand I've seen players make a $5 bet for the dealer on Pair+ and have it hit a straight for, if memory serves, 6 to 1. I'm sure the dealer would prefer the $35 rather than the $5. But again, what's the total in tips over the long term? Pair+ has a huge house edge.

EW Jones -

SooPoo is exactly right, although I would have worded it differently:

How would you have felt if one or two of those toke bets on the TRIPS bet were winners?

For the record, with only a 16% hit rate, making and losing that bet 10 times is not at all out of the ordinary.

You should have smiled and said "Thanks for trying." --- and you should have meant it.

Quote: SOOPOO

Them's fighting words, ewjones. Each time that player put that $2.50 down for YOU, it was probably worth $2.30 or so for you. He tipped you $23.00. Over the course of eternity, if every player tipped as this guy did, you would get around $23 from each of these generous sorts. Sometimes you may get a big zippo, but sometimes you'll get a big hit. It will average out to the $2.30 per shot. If this happened over 6 hours, he was tipping you $4 per hour. If 6 players were tipping the same at your table, you were generating $24 per hour in tips.
For someone who is on a gambling forum, and who actually deals games, your lack of understanding of this simple concept is appalling. And your attitude toward this player, who was betting for you when he absolutely didn't have to, is equally appalling.

I agree 100% here, this player was being very generous. As a dealer it should not matter too much because you will be making about the same in the long run. I used to ask dealers if they would prefer to be tipped directly or have a bet placed. I stopped asking because they all say bet. I have even tried to tip directly and had the dealer place it as a tip bet. Now, maybe it is house policy that dealers are supposed to answer that way because the casino wants to promote gambling.

To answer the original question I agree with the previous posters who said $1 a couple times per dealer change is enough. If I have had an entertaining and accurate dealer for most of a long session I will tip that dealer $5-$10 when I get up. I have also observed that at the lower stakes I play (betting between ($5 and $20) the majority of players tip nothing. I like to tip because when I gamble I am usuallly on vacation having a good time and tipping makes me feel good by improving someone else's day.

A few people have mentioned dealers that "go for their own." Are there any Vegas casinos that follow this policy for table games dealers? Whenever I have asked it has always been pooled tips. I would likely tip more to good dealers and less to bad ones if I knew they kept their own. Poker dealers generally keep their own and at a poker table it is considered quite rude to not tip at least $1 on any significant pot.

I'm not a counter or anything, I play because it's fun. When I buy into a game of BJ I always buy some dollar chips to bet for the dealer. When I run out I buy more. I have found that almost always they thank me for trying, whether the bet wins or loses. And if it was an especially profitable session I'll give them what is left that won't color up.

On other games like TCP I tip after a big win or else when leaving the table. I have no problem flipping them a green chip after I just hit trips. But then, that's just me. And in a city like Vegas I tip pretty much everybody. I always have a comped room but the twenty I slip the front desk person has never failed to get me an upgrade.

Quote: DanMahowny

Point taken. Thanks.

My comment wasn't intended to start any debate. I just wanted to point out that not tipping dealers is a viable option.

You just sound like an ass hole that cant keep from losing. Sorry to here that troll.

Do you just sit a a computer with your retarded voice and go... hur hur hur im an asshole hur hur hur i think im going to go onto a bunch of forums because I have no life and just degrade people and call them liars or dumbasses for tipping hur hur hur. I got a wooden spoon hur hur hur.

Quote: i0r0retardod

You just sound like an ass hole that cant keep from losing. Sorry to here that troll.

Do you just sit a a computer with your retarded voice and go... hur hur hur im an asshole hur hur hur i think im going to go onto a bunch of forums because I have no life and just degrade people and call them liars or dumbasses for tipping hur hur hur. I got a wooden spoon hur hur hur.

Quote: i0r0retardod

You just sound like an ass hole that cant keep from losing. Sorry to here that troll.

Do you just sit a a computer with your retarded voice and go... hur hur hur im an asshole hur hur hur i think im going to go onto a bunch of forums because I have no life and just degrade people and call them liars or dumbasses for tipping hur hur hur. I got a wooden spoon hur hur hur.

30-day suspension.

When I play BJ I will start tipping after 3 or 4 wins in a row. I will tip a dollar or more each hand afterward until my little rush is over. A strange thing happened last weekend at a Indian casino in OK. I had a ten dollar bet out and 1.50 tip out for the dealer. I get 16 dealt to me so I surrender(dealer up-card of ten). Now I know I will get 5 dollars returned to me but the entire dealer tip was lost. Is this standard procedure at most casinos(whether Indian or other). It seemed like that was a slap in the face to me being a tipper and to the dealer. At first the dealer thought that just half of his tip would be lost but he wasnt sure so he called the pit over and he made the decision.

Quote: mdh

When I play BJ I will start tipping after 3 or 4 wins in a row. I will tip a dollar or more each hand afterward until my little rush is over. A strange thing happened last weekend at a Indian casino in OK. I had a ten dollar bet out and 1.50 tip out for the dealer. I get 16 dealt to me so I surrender(dealer up-card of ten). Now I know I will get 5 dollars returned to me but the entire dealer tip was lost. Is this standard procedure at most casinos(whether Indian or other). It seemed like that was a slap in the face to me being a tipper and to the dealer. At first the dealer thought that just half of his tip would be lost but he wasnt sure so he called the pit over and he made the decision.

mdh, your tip bet should have been surrendered as well.

I recently started playing blackjack. The tipping makes things interesting, at least for me. At first, I used to throw out the occasional $1 on the edge of the betting circle for the dealers. However, I had to stop doing this when I hit a blackjack. The dealer received the original $1, plus another $1 in winnings. When I asked about it, I was told that for the dealer tip bets, they round down in the case of a blackjack. Seems like a rather cheap move by the casino.

My new method is to place the $1 tip amount on top of my (usually $10) bet. In other words, a player controlled tip bet. The nice thing here is that when a blackjack is hit, the dealer trades out my $1 chip for a $2.50 chip. I can then throw this to the dealer as the tip, and feel like the dealer got the full tip amount, rather than the cheap method the casino endorses.

But mainly, if my $11 bet wins, $1 of the winnings go to the dealer. This allows my original $1 tip bet to remain in the circle, for the potential of garnering more tip money for the dealers.

Since I normally bet $10, a blackjack pays me $15. I take the extra $5, turn it into white chips, and then start tip betting as I indicated.

The added bonus is that payouts take a little bit longer for the dealer because of the extra white chip, which slows down the game, and helps me practice counting cards. :)

Quote: konceptum

I recently started playing blackjack. The tipping makes things interesting, at least for me. At first, I used to throw out the occasional $1 on the edge of the betting circle for the dealers. However, I had to stop doing this when I hit a blackjack. The dealer received the original $1, plus another $1 in winnings. When I asked about it, I was told that for the dealer tip bets, they round down in the case of a blackjack. Seems like a rather cheap move by the casino.

My new method is to place the $1 tip amount on top of my (usually $10) bet. In other words, a player controlled tip bet. The nice thing here is that when a blackjack is hit, the dealer trades out my $1 chip for a $2.50 chip. I can then throw this to the dealer as the tip, and feel like the dealer got the full tip amount, rather than the cheap method the casino endorses.

But mainly, if my $11 bet wins, $1 of the winnings go to the dealer. This allows my original $1 tip bet to remain in the circle, for the potential of garnering more tip money for the dealers.

Since I normally bet $10, a blackjack pays me $15. I take the extra $5, turn it into white chips, and then start tip betting as I indicated.

The added bonus is that payouts take a little bit longer for the dealer because of the extra white chip, which slows down the game, and helps me practice counting cards. :)

Although many casinos frown upon converting chips for blackjack payouts, some will allow the dealer to drop a pink chip for the $1 blackjack and return the white chip to the rack.

Happy card counting!

Quote: 1BB

Quote: konceptum

However, I had to stop doing this when I hit a blackjack. The dealer received the original $1, plus another $1 in winnings. When I asked about it, I was told that for the dealer tip bets, they round down in the case of a blackjack. Seems like a rather cheap move by the casino.

Although many casinos frown upon converting chips for blackjack payouts, some will allow the dealer to drop a pink chip for the $1 blackjack and return the white chip to the rack.

Happy card counting!

Yeah, that's unbelievably shitty for the dealers, assuming they have $.50 tokens or $2.50 chips. I can't believe they would do that, and yet pay you the full $1.50 on your $1 on top of the $10. I would keep doing that...

Quote: AcesAndEights

Yeah, that's unbelievably shitty for the dealers, assuming they have $.50 tokens or $2.50 chips. I can't believe they would do that, and yet pay you the full $1.50 on your $1 on top of the $10. I would keep doing that...

That is a really cheap move. Moral of the story, always put the tip on top. If you go on a run your dollar could end up winning the dealer 5 or more, making them root for you a little bit too as they continue to win.

I make my living playing blackjack, and pro players are notorious for not tipping, because we are dealing with such an incredibly slim profit margin. But let me explain the math. As a mid level player, my expected value is just about $70 per 100 hands played. That's about 70 cents a hand. So obviously I can't afford to tip even $1 each hand....I'd be losing money. Ok what if I tipped 10% of my hourly expected value (hourly win). Assuming I am able to play 100 hands an hour, that means I could tip $7 bucks per hour. I could probably afford to do this. But here's the thing. I spread from $25-$400 in order to make this $70 per 100 rounds, or for the purpose of this discussion, per hour. Let me tell you, when you are playing several hundred dollars per hand and occasionally tip a buck, you are going to get nasty looks and comments and draw more attention than if you don't tip at all. So basically, it is just not worth it. Tipping the small amount that I could afford would actually draw more attention and drawing minimum attention is number one priority. If I do tip, it will be $5 as the dealer is relieved or as I exit the table. I will only do so, if I feel the dealer has offered me something like better penetration or a good quick pace to the game (time is money). This method of tipping at the end of the session or at the change of dealers, is contrary to common wisdom among pro blackjack players. Common wisdom is to tip at the beginning of play or during play to 'encourage' the conditions that you are trying to get. Tipping at the end, is tipping after the fact, when it can't help you. But, even though I play a large rotation of stores, I still see the same dealers regularly (too regularly), so I still believe it will help me during future sessions.

Quote: kewlj

I make my living playing blackjack, and pro players are notorious for not tipping, because we are dealing with such an incredibly slim profit margin. But let me explain the math. As a mid level player, my expected value is just about $70 per 100 hands played. That's about 70 cents a hand. So obviously I can't afford to tip even $1 each hand....I'd be losing money. Ok what if I tipped 10% of my hourly expected value (hourly win). Assuming I am able to play 100 hands an hour, that means I could tip $7 bucks per hour. I could probably afford to do this. But here's the thing. I spread from $25-$400 in order to make this $70 per 100 rounds, or for the purpose of this discussion, per hour. Let me tell you, when you are playing several hundred dollars per hand and occasionally tip a buck, you are going to get nasty looks and comments and draw more attention than if you don't tip at all. So basically, it is just not worth it. Tipping the small amount that I could afford would actually draw more attention and drawing minimum attention is number one priority. If I do tip, it will be $5 as the dealer is relieved or as I exit the table. I will only do so, if I feel the dealer has offered me something like better penetration or a good quick pace to the game (time is money). This method of tipping at the end of the session or at the change of dealers, is contrary to common wisdom among pro blackjack players. Common wisdom is to tip at the beginning of play or during play to 'encourage' the conditions that you are trying to get. Tipping at the end, is tipping after the fact, when it can't help you. But, even though I play a large rotation of stores, I still see the same dealers regularly (too regularly), so I still believe it will help me during future sessions.

Very interesting post. The part that intrigues me is "if I feel the dealer has offerred me something like better penetration". If that thought is in both of your minds (you and the dealer), then I would interpret that as a conspiracy to defraud the casino. You would obviously (I think?) never say out loud.. "I will tip more if you penetrate deeper". I would think that it would be impossible to prove any wrongdoing, but technically it probably is illegal.
I am happy for you that you are able to find games that let you spread 1 -16, and your honesty that even at that level you only average $70 an hour.
If you are comfortable answering, how long is your average 'session'? How many hours do you 'work' per week?

Quote: SOOPOO

Very interesting post. The part that intrigues me is "if I feel the dealer has offerred me something like better penetration". If that thought is in both of your minds (you and the dealer), then I would interpret that as a conspiracy to defraud the casino. You would obviously (I think?) never say out loud.. "I will tip more if you penetrate deeper". I would think that it would be impossible to prove any wrongdoing, but technically it probably is illegal.
I am happy for you that you are able to find games that let you spread 1 -16, and your honesty that even at that level you only average $70 an hour.
If you are comfortable answering, how long is your average 'session'? How many hours do you 'work' per week?

I prefer deeper penetration, a quick game and few players at the table because it increases my earnings. The dealer can have some control over number 1 and 2. Although collusion is difficult to prove, I think if you came out and said, "if you cut deeper, I will tip you xx amount" you have crossed that line into collusion. If you 'hint' in other ways what you are after, even coming out and saying something like "why do you cut so shallow...that means more time shuffling", you have not crossed that line, IMO and I am comfortable with that.

I am happy to answer your questions about my game, but don't want to hijack the thread, so I will send you a private message.

Quote: buzzpaff

Tipping a waitress, taxi driver, cocktail waitress, etc are all optional. Have never understood the logic behind guys who tip them, but never a dealer! WTF, especially counters. I mean here's the guy without whom you can not win a cent, and him you screw. So any non-tippers who fall in this category. SCREW YOU !

Does the dealer somehow change the cards on you if you don't tip? If so, I would call the GCB

Quote: kewlj

I make my living playing blackjack, and pro players are notorious for not tipping, because we are dealing with such an incredibly slim profit margin. But let me explain the math. As a mid level player, my expected value is just about $70 per 100 hands played. That's about 70 cents a hand. So obviously I can't afford to tip even $1 each hand....I'd be losing money. Ok what if I tipped 10% of my hourly expected value (hourly win). Assuming I am able to play 100 hands an hour, that means I could tip $7 bucks per hour. I could probably afford to do this. But here's the thing. I spread from $25-$400 in order to make this $70 per 100 rounds, or for the purpose of this discussion, per hour. Let me tell you, when you are playing several hundred dollars per hand and occasionally tip a buck, you are going to get nasty looks and comments and draw more attention than if you don't tip at all. So basically, it is just not worth it. Tipping the small amount that I could afford would actually draw more attention and drawing minimum attention is number one priority. If I do tip, it will be $5 as the dealer is relieved or as I exit the table. I will only do so, if I feel the dealer has offered me something like better penetration or a good quick pace to the game (time is money). This method of tipping at the end of the session or at the change of dealers, is contrary to common wisdom among pro blackjack players. Common wisdom is to tip at the beginning of play or during play to 'encourage' the conditions that you are trying to get. Tipping at the end, is tipping after the fact, when it can't help you. But, even though I play a large rotation of stores, I still see the same dealers regularly (too regularly), so I still believe it will help me during future sessions.

I think if you tipped 5 dollars every hour and a half or so you would still be considered generous. Obviously some players over tip, but if every player gave the dealers 3-4 dollars an hour they would be doing very well. say the average table has 4-5 players then they would be getting 12 to 20 an hour in tokes in addition to their pay from the casino, sounds good to me! Unfortunately many players don't tip at all. At least where I play most of the dealers are clueless about card counting and have no idea on the effect of the cut card. There is a little slit in the shoe to put the cut card into but many dealers don't use it. I once saw a dealer give extreme penetration in an 8 deck shoe (there must have honestly only been 10 cards she didn't play, and I have also seen atrocious where like 3 decks weren't in play.

" "I will tip more if you penetrate deeper".

Oh, now i understand. Never tip a dealer unless he is willing to put his job on the line for you.
Seems fair to me. Just wondering what favors you expect from a waitress.

Quote: buzzpaff

" "I will tip more if you penetrate deeper".

Oh, now i understand. Never tip a dealer unless he is willing to put his job on the line for you.
Seems fair to me. Just wondering what favors you expect from a waitress.

someone pull my mind back out of the gutter.

I was thinking of a shoeshine. Evidently your mind was already in the gutter.

KJ makes a good point from the perspective of a pro player. If you're betting big, even frequent tokes can go completely unappreciated. I recently played a session where I toked the dealer somewhat frequently over the course of three or four hours. At the end, I had increased the dealer toke pool by over $20/hour. Every time I left the table to take a bathroom break or a phone call during the session, both the relief dealer and main shift dealer complained to the other players at the table that I was a cheapskate and that I wasn't toking enough, despite the fact that I was easily toking more than twice the average amount (probably more like 4x) at the table. The following day, the shift dealer even complained to a player that had played with me the night before that I had "won $8000" (not correct) and "didn't even tip $100!" I suppose I should have just kept the money in the first place, eh?