Blackjack "misdeal" on double down with one player at table.

I was playing blackjack at a table by myself in the high limit area with the pit boss standing right by dealer closely observing play. I doubled down on 11 against a dealer 5 for a total wager of $1,400. The dealer turned over the hole card which was also a 5. The dealer then dealt a 10 card and placed it on the table near her cards. I immediately said that it was my card. I complained to the pit boss that it was my card and that he could not take it. Just move it over a few inches where it belongs and let the dealer complete her hand. He told the dealer to burn the ten and that "backing up" cards was not allowed. I said he could not do that and there was nothing to back up. Play stopped while I complained further. The dealer discarded the ten over my objection. The pit boss did not tell me I could retract my bet and instructed the dealer to deal the cards saying that I would not lose or something like that. I did not agree to anything and the dealer quickly dealt the hand which I lost but the dealer did not take my wager per the pit boss instruction. The subsequent cards after the ten was discarded showed that I would have won the double down with my total of 21. It is one thing to double down on a 5 with the hope of the dealer total being 15. It is another thing to double down on an 11 against a dealer 10. There was no error that affected play until the pit boss disallowed my card. In addition, since the dealer turned over her hole card of 5 before dealing the pit boss now knew the dealer had a total of 10 versus a possible 15 before the hole card was turned over. So he knew that the house chances were now much more favorable. So his offer of me not losing was based upon improper information of the dealer hole card. I did not agree to anything but my cards and money were on the table and the casino was in control of the table at that point. If anything the dealer hole card of 5 should have been burned in addition to my 10. I filed a complaint and was told no "removal of cards from the disposal rack or backing up" of cards allowed without pit boss approval. The casino confirmed that the video record which is now preserved supported what I claimed to have occurred! I said that rule is for limiting dealer authority for control purposes and not denying a player their cards. In this case the pit boss observed everything and instructed the dealer to disallow my card. Regardless, of any written procedures this is unfair. But, I wondered if the definition of backing up cards applies to one player with one card while the pit boss was watching? I am waiting for the next level of the casino to review the initial decision. Will I be able to collect my $1,400? Is there any way that the casino should be required to pay me more as a penalty

Wait, just to be clear, you slid your $700 next to the first stack, and instead of giving you a card, the dealer flipped over her hole card as if you were staying? On an eleven? The dealer should not be in the high limit room.

Quote: rkrsurf

I was playing blackjack at a table by myself in the high limit area with the pit boss standing right by dealer closely observing play. I doubled down on 11 against a dealer 5 for a total wager of $1,400. The dealer turned over the hole card which was also a 5. The dealer then dealt a 10 card and placed it on the table near her cards. I immediately said that it was my card. I complained to the pit boss that it was my card and that he could not take it. Just move it over a few inches where it belongs and let the dealer complete her hand. He told the dealer to burn the ten and that "backing up" cards was not allowed. I said he could not do that and there was nothing to back up. Play stopped while I complained further. The dealer discarded the ten over my objection. The pit boss did not tell me I could retract my bet and instructed the dealer to deal the cards saying that I would not lose or something like that. I did not agree to anything and the dealer quickly dealt the hand which I lost but the dealer did not take my wager per the pit boss instruction. The subsequent cards after the ten was discarded showed that I would have won the double down with my total of 21. It is one thing to double down on a 5 with the hope of the dealer total being 15. It is another thing to double down on an 11 against a dealer 10. There was no error that affected play until the pit boss disallowed my card. In addition, since the dealer turned over her hole card of 5 before dealing the pit boss now knew the dealer had a total of 10 versus a possible 15 before the hole card was turned over. So he knew that the house chances were now much more favorable. So his offer of me not losing was based upon improper information of the dealer hole card. I did not agree to anything but my cards and money were on the table and the casino was in control of the table at that point. If anything the dealer hole card of 5 should have been burned in addition to my 10. I filed a complaint and was told no "removal of cards from the disposal rack or backing up" of cards allowed without pit boss approval. The casino confirmed that the video record which is now preserved supported what I claimed to have occurred! I said that rule is for limiting dealer authority for control purposes and not denying a player their cards. In this case the pit boss observed everything and instructed the dealer to disallow my card. Regardless, of any written procedures this is unfair. But, I wondered if the definition of backing up cards applies to one player with one card while the pit boss was watching? I am waiting for the next level of the casino to review the initial decision. Will I be able to collect my $1,400? Is there any way that the casino should be required to pay me more as a penalty

Clearly the casino was wrong. However, once the play has occurred, it is likely you will never see that money again. At the same time, you should insist at the time of play to go to the highest authority (beyond the pit boss) all the way up the chain as possible. If the casino was following its own policy, it can favor either way. That is, if the 10 was burnt, that 10 could have easily been a 2 through 7 which you would have been happy to see burnt especially after you saw a dealer's total of 10. My belief is that you should be able to withdraw your bet after a mistake at the casino. Not all casinos follow that policy. The best way to retaliate against a casino is to write a kind letter both to the casino management, to gaming, and not patronize the casino again.

These kinds of mistakes have happened to me: once at four card poker, a misdeal caused the player next to me to receive the cards that I would have received and he ended up winning $1,000 (that I should have won). In let-it-ride, the dealer revealed the wrong card first resulting in me losing 1/2 my win. In either case, they claimed policy and offered only an apology. I don't patronize that casino any more (Great Blue Heron, in Port Perry, Ontario). In the latest case, I wrote a letter to casino management (and am still awaiting a reply).

I've seen situations where a player's action was not clear, and the dealer thought the player indicated somethong else, etc.

In those situations, cards WERE backed up, AND ALL players were given the opportunity to kill their hand and not lose their bet, or continue play.

Bottom line, the boss was doing the fairest thing possible, even though it was definately not in the casino's best interest.

Then again, this was at a $10 table.

In your case, just keep persuing it, all the way to the Commission if need be.

But extra money to 'teach them a lesson'? No way. Not unless you take it to court. And even then, I wouldn't count on it.

If it took place in the high limit room, believe me, I am not an authority on it at all!

Now actually I'm surprized something like that happened in the first place, particularly where the dealers are supposed to be experienced and trusted.

It was a dealer error and backing up is not relevant at all. Dealer showed his hole card prematurely. Well, that is not your fault. You can use that information since it was lawfully obtained by you.

Pit should have said the card was yours. Also if you had insisted, they should have locked down the table and awaited a Gaming Commission officer. Atleast you could have said to them that would be your next step. The pit would probably have backed down then.

Dealers get tired and inattentive or simply make mistakes. Sometimes player's actions are mispercieved. I'm still puzzled as to how this could have happened in a high limit room though.

had a similar situation, where shift manager had to come out, reviewed the video tape, etc... Originally, he offered to return my bets, but I insisted on playing out the hands.

I agree Flea....and the more I think about this situation, the more it seems so messed up. If it were me, I would have yelled when the dealer started to flip the hole card. I would have been like "whooooaaa WAIT....I NEED A CARD!!!!" I doubt the dealer would have had time to flip the hole card AND draw from the shoe without me yelling and stopping the action first. (Or the pit boss for that matter, if you he was watching so intently. I'd like to know how the card wasn't dealt to you...Did you put your chips up, indicating a double, and then instead she flipped her hole card, as if you are sticking? I just can't wrap my mind around the sequence.

Thanks everybody for the posts so far. It gives me some emotional support. By the way this happened on Jan 1. What a way to start out the new year. This occurred at Pala casino in Pala Caif. My complaint at the casino level was denied. Currently I am preparing a request for resolution with the Tribal Gaming Commission which is supposed to be somewhat independent from the casino. I spoke with the California Gaming Control Commission and met personally with the National Indian Gaming Control Commission. They are both interested in pursuing my complaint but after the decision of the Tribal Commission if I am dissatisfied with their decision.

The next day after the incident I filed a complaint with the casino. When leaving with a copy of the complaint in hand I stopped by the same high limit area and described events to another Pit Boss. He told me he would have given me the ten!

I will try to remember to report the result of my efforts.

To clarify some questions: There was no question about the validity of my double down. I had $700 in black chips and had to pull out $700 in $100 bills from my wallet. So there was a delay while I did this. I told the pit boss before I did this that I might have just enough cash left for the double down. They allow cash to play in the high limit area. I had already made my decision and bet to double down. Before the dealer dealt a card she turned over the hole card which was a 5 to go along with her up card of five. This was of no consequence since I had already placed my bet and would only receive one card. I just said "oh no" to myself when I saw that she had ten instead of a possible 15. She then dealt my ten card to herself. One of my secondary complaints is that this information was of benefit to the pit boss in offering me a no lose hand. Since the odds are much more favorable to the casino with a total of 10 than possibly 15.

I am not a card counter as I just use the old 1-3-1 money management system. I was as courteous and polite as much as one could expect under the circumstances. I was drinking a coke and had nothing alcoholic to drink. I don't smoke either. I tip very well too. Just a model patron.

No fair! No fair! It is hard enough to win without this!

Wow, after your explanation, it's even more unacceptable that the hand was dealt incorrectly. The pit boss was there, watching you play cash, and did nothing as the dealer flipped her hole card before dealing you the double down card? Not that it matters, but they do deal the double down card face up right? Not face down? Again, I'm just as shocked she flipped her hand before giving you the card as I am that she gave herself the ten. The ten to me is a secondary error caused by her failure to follow procedure with regard to finishing your hand before doing ANYTHING with her own. Hypothetically, if she had a 7-A showing and revealed a ten, would she say, "Dealer has 17, player has 11...you lose!" Because she can't act on her hand at all until you are finished. What a joke.

Yes they deal the double down card face up.

Before I give an opinion, let me give the caveat that I have never worked in a casino, so I'm not the best one to chime in. That said, I've heard the policy about not backing up cards before. I think that is meant for the kind of situation where one player wants to hit, but the dealer skips him, and gives the card to another player. The general principle is that once a card goes to the wrong hand it becomes tainted. They don't want to get into arguments about who should get the card, but rather burn it.

I'm not sure what would have happened in Vegas in this exact situation. I think they would have asked if there were any objections from the other players to give you the 10. If there were none, they would have done that. If there were, then I'm not sure what would happen next. With the other players I think they would let them out of the hand, but I'm not sure what kind of offer they would make you. I may repost on this after I have a chance to ask someone who actually deals cards.

The state of the "no lose" offer when made was not as good as having a 21 against a dealer 10, obviously. In the interests of fair play and customer relations, I think they should have given you the win after the fact. I think the classier Vegas casinos would have done that. However, I think if the casino chose to not do that, the Nevada Gaming Control Board would take the casino's side, as they usually do, saying the casino was just following procedure of burning tainted cards.

I would suggest you submit your grievance to TheBearGrowls.com as a last resort. I'd give the casino and the gaming authorities down there every chance to make it right through the normal grievance process. Your odds are better if you fight it like a gentleman at first, and only seek revenge when there is no other option. I know I have not practiced that myself in the past (ahem), but that advice comes out of learning from my own mistakes.

At the casino I work in, when a mistake is made in a round of Blackjack, the cards are backed up as standard procedure, this can include mistakes such as a box being missed out or a players action being missed.

I can underside both sides of this arguament, but I personally have to side against the casino in this one too. For the sake of one card the pit boss should have used his discretion keep the player happy.

The general attitude here is not to sweat the money as we will end up with it anyway. Keep the players happy and not only will we get back any money we might lose on a given night but more besides.

The casino should have given you the 10, no matter what the "rules" say. But nothing surprises me anymore with casino management. They can be incredibly greedy.

I'll never forget the time I was playing Spanish 21 and the dealer mistook a 4-card 21 as a 5-card 21 and paid 3:2 instead of the usual 1:1. This was a $5 bet guys. Would you believe some suit came by 10 minutes later and asked the lady to give the $2.50 chip back? Disgusting.

I know some California Casinos won't even let you stay on 11 or less. This might help your case too.

This was abviously not just a mistake. I deal blackjack and no dealer makes that kind of a mistake, especially one on one. It was on purpose, trust me. I would do the following:

1. Write a formal complaint to the state gaming commission. If there is a history of this, it will start to show up.

2. Name the casino. Casinos really do not like bad Pr.

3. Call Tony Soprano