Does the Casino Rate Speed of Play.

Do the computers that the pit staff type in your information (average bet size, length of play, etc.) also rate the speed of play?

For example, does the casino care if you are playing at an empty of full blackjack table? Or if you are at a fast or slow baccarat table?

This could make a huge difference for comps. If I am at a busy and slow blackjack table, I might play 45 hands an hour but if I am at an empty table, I might push 200 hands per hour.

Quote: gambler

Do the computers that the pit staff type in your information (average bet size, length of play, etc.) also rate the speed of play?

I feel like they do not take this into consideration. But since you never know precisely what data they are using, there is no way to know for sure. I've always felt you are better off getting rated at peak hours.

Typically the casino has a standard amount of hands per hour. It's usually somewhere between 50-70, with 60 being the most common average used. Obviously if you're the only player at a table for a long time you'll be dealt more than 60 hands per hour and you typically won't be given credit for that for comps purposes.

It should be easy for the computer to take that into account. After all, if it knows the number of players at the table, it should be able to take that into consideration.

Then again, in some pits, one terminal is used for more than one table, so unless part of the data being entered is the table number, it wouldn't know the number of players.

Bottom line, ask the pit boss.

Gambler, you play at a higher level than the rest of us. Certainly, those are the kinds of questions that you should be able to get an answer from a pit boss or host. You could also ask if it works the same for the rest of us...

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Gambler, you play at a higher level than the rest of us. Certainly, those are the kinds of questions that you should be able to get an answer from a pit boss or host. You could also ask if it works the same for the rest of us...

Personally, I like to play at busy craps tables (my game of choice) because I like the social aspect of a full table. When I have pointed out to a host that I was playing at an empty blackjack or roulette (don't ask) table, they tend to give me the benefit of the doubt in close comp situations. Then again, as you pointed out, perhaps this is due to my level of play and the fact they don't want me to leave to another casino. I am always polite about it, though which I am sure helps.

I would think that with smarter computers, it should be easy to figure out exactly how many bets per hour are being placed. Then again, it could work against a player who is at a busy table for comp purposes. I would be unhappy if I play for 4 hours at a busy craps table but only am given 2 hours of credit because the table is moving at a snails pace.

Hope that someone in the industry could shed more light on this.

I also wondered if you could works this to your advantage in a game like baccarat where you can write things down, ponder for a while, and not bet every hand when "the pattern is not clear" or the "gods have not spoken". Baccarat players are normally very superstitious anyway, they probably would be forgiven for their crazy actions to slow play down.

Or what about the craps player who is "off" a roll or two when the dice flies off the table or hits a stray hand or whatever. Does the pit staff note when a player is playing fewer hands then the rest of the table?

Just texted a friend who is a "dual rate" supervisor at Horseshoe Southern Indiana. Craps players are rated at 45 rolls per hour and blackjack at 60 and it doesnt matter how many hands/decisions were actually made. Of course this is just one casino.

I get rated the same whether I play blackjack heads up at over 200 hands per hour or at a full table at 60 hands per hour. With that in mind, comp hustlers should play full tables preferably with side bets.

Casinos can't have floorpeople filling in dozens of boxes so its one flat rate that the casino decides on for hands per hour...

Quote: gambler

Do the computers that the pit staff type in your information (average bet size, length of play, etc.) also rate the speed of play?

No, never.
Each game is considered to have its standard game speed.
The only info that is tracted is your buy-in, average bet, and cash out.
If you sit out many hands, or take many bthroom breaks, the floorman might reduce your average bet.

Just to clarify: what you mean is that the OTHER players should be making the side bets and taking away from dealer's shuffling time, while the Comp Hustler simply plays the BlackJack hand rather than side bets. ??

Quote: FleaStiff

Just to clarify: what you mean is that the OTHER players should be making the side bets and taking away from dealer's shuffling time, while the Comp Hustler simply plays the BlackJack hand rather than side bets. ??

The more bets the dealer has to settle, the less hands per hour are dealt. These tables can and do slow to a crawl which is great for the flat betting basic strategy player trying to build comps. A heads up player with a fast dealer could play four or five times the hands risking four or five times the money, but they will both get the same amount of comps.

Yes, okay. That is what I was pretty sure you meant, but the first time I read your post I thought that you were actually advocating that a Comp Hustling Blackjack player should himself be making those high house edge side bets. It might even be better to play at a fast table than to constantly make the bankroll depleting side bets.

The main thing is that floorpeople have to enter the rating into the computer in a quick and easy manner and while capturing rate of play information might be fine in some perfect world its neither fine nor acceptable in the often hectic pace of a casino where game protection is more important than accurate rating of players or shaving of comp points.

It is to the Comp Hustler's advantage to play at a slow table and anything that slows the rate of play is good. An inherently slow dealer, side bets that have to be serviced, newbies that need explanations, etc. will all be great boons to the Comp Hustling player. The computer has ONE stored value in it for rate of play and only if the player truly pisses off the floor person will any adjustment be made to the comps and that will be done by an adverse adjustment to the "average bet" figure.

Its generally said "don't play for comps" but I also see no reason to throw away comp points. Its like the roulette players who choose a double zero wheel when a single zero wheel is open just a few steps away. Those roulette players are throwing their money away at a higher house edge needlessly. Its the same thing. If in one casino there are two tables side by side that are otherwise more or less equal but one is a fast rate of play and one is a slow rate of play, you might as well take advantage of the slow rate of play and earn more comp points for dollars actually risked against that same house edge.