Bunch of Craps Questions

Hi, I have a bunch of craps questions. I have a lot I think but here are some off the top of my head. If I can think of more, I will continue asking. Thanks.

1) I played craps by myself and I was standing at the far end edge of the table. I was wondering if there is a spot or spots where you can stand where you can actually see the dice? I was standing at the edge on one side and cannot see the dice. I had to rely on the stickman to call out the values. I'm sure that they are 99% correct but mistakes do happen. So is there a spot where I can see the dice?

2) I know this has been asked a million times, but what is the right tipping rate for craps and how should it be done? I feel that this an expensive game for tips because you have to take care of 3 people/dealers. Thinking about it, if you're the type who tips 2 bucks here and there while playing (say if you do it for 3 times, it's already 6 dollars), and when you color up your chips, you drop another 5 bucks, then it's 11 dollars already. If you're the type of player that has a bankroll of 500 bucks, that is a lot for tips since you're not only going to play for 1 session. So how should tipping be done for craps? Should you tip when you color up or should you tip while you are playing? I feel that it feels weird when you don't tip when you color up because it looks like you never tipped even though you have tipped a few bucks here and there as you play.

3) I feel stressed when playing craps by myself. It seems the pace is so damn fast. So how do you count your chips to place your bets in that 15-20 second window without getting nervous. I mean you have to make sure the amount is right. Let's say you want to lay 90 for the point. You have to count the chips so damn quickly with everyone watching you. I mean my hands literally shake. In blackjack, even the dealer has to break down the stack to count the chips to make sure the amount is right for double downs and splits.

4) I really don't know if it's a local thing but do they call "dice are out" everywhere? There was this one time my don't come bet traveled to a point and before I can say "lay the 5 for 9 dollars" and drop the chips, the dice came flying out and there was a 7 out. The dealer knew what my intentions were as I was ready to drop the chips and I was in the middle of saying something like lay the ..... and I had 9 dollars ready to be dropped. Actually while the dice were flying out, that split second kind of slowed my action down of dropping the chips. So my question is - isn't this the stick's fault for not giving adequate time for people to place their bets?

(1) You can never see the result of every throw which is sometimes why you see the stickman yell "call it" when the dice are behind chips or are in a corner that s/he cannot see. The only time you will be able to reliably be able to see every number is when you are at the end that the dice are being thrown. You can always switch ends I guess.

(2) I like to tip at the beginning and at the end, but not during a session. Occasionally there's a tip after a great roll as well. At the beginning, tipping will generally get you a bit of notice and some better service. At the end, tipping is appreciated and might get you remembered if you're a regular. Most people believe that tipping should not be based on wins but on service, so keep that in mind, whether you win or lose. I like that idea and I'll tip more to the better dealers who get all of my bets right, are pleasant, and are quick.

(3) Take your time. The table wins more with more rolls/hour so there is pressure from the stick to get the dice out. To slow the casino down, go ahead and count your chips, calm down, and when the dice is passed to you, just do what you need to do, play with the dice for a few seconds, take a deep breath, and slow the game down. Players like a slower table in general as well as it gives them more time to think about their action and it slows down losing streaks and makes winning streaks and rolls seem longer.

(4) The proper time to drop a bet is when the dice are in the middle of the table. Certainly, most dealers won't mind a late center call because any action in the middle has a HA of at least 9 percent and is a profit boon for the casino. Some casinos allow "call bet", and if you are a regular, they're more likely to accept it than not. The stick should be giving you adequate time to place your bets absolutely and I've run into that from time to time and I'm fairly fast at putting my bets down.

Oh this is a Jerry moment and he is not here. I will do my best.

1. Buy a pair of glasses, you can't see 12 feet??? You are by yourself you can't stand next to the stick?????

2. Don't tip.

3. Lay $90? That's 3 green and 3 red. You do have your chips arranged?????

4. In the time the shooter has to place chips for odds behind, you don't have time to place chips in the come area and say "Laying $9"???

We got what, 4 days to wait, almost an eternity.

1 - You can also rely on the people at the other end to speak up if the stick calls the wrong number. If you're at a table alone, or where there is nobody on the other side, you can request that the stick bring the dice to the middle and delay turning them until after you've seen it.

2 - Tips get pooled among the entire dealer staff, so don't make yourself nuts about tipping three people etc. Sure, if you want to give more because there are more people, do it, but don't get nuts about it. WHEN to tip is up to you too. I often put down a $1 pass line bet with $2 or $3 odds. Sometimes I'll just throw in a red or two after coloring up.

3 - I think that's just a matter of getting used to the game, and/or not making new bets on every roll so you have a chance to catch your breath and straighten your stacks.

4 - The only time I've heard "dice are out" is when there is a player who repeatedly places late bets and/or has his hands in the tub. And, yeah, good dealers that recognize your patterns will let you slide with the late bets - particularly if you tip and/or pay up when you had a late bet lose.

Is the stick running too fast? Maybe, maybe not.

If you're waiting for it to be "your turn" to get the dealer's attention, then the problem might be you. I don't wait for "my turn" to give the dealer instructions. I simply put a stack of chips on the line between the field and come. Then the dealer will ask what to do with it (or know what to do if he picked up my pattern) when he gets to me.

Quote: boymimbo

(1) You can never see the result of every throw which is sometimes why you see the stickman yell "call it" when the dice are behind chips or are in a corner that s/he cannot see. The only time you will be able to reliably be able to see every number is when you are at the end that the dice are being thrown. You can always switch ends I guess..

First of all, I want to thank you for all of your responses. I'm used to playing the CA version (card craps) so the cards are in the middle and people can see it clearly. So now that I know, I don't think I will play by myself as I do not like results called out (especially during graveyard shifts where dealers might be daydreaming).

Quote: boymimbo

(2) I like to tip at the beginning and at the end, but not during a session. Occasionally there's a tip after a great roll as well. At the beginning, tipping will generally get you a bit of notice and some better service. At the end, tipping is appreciated and might get you remembered if you're a regular. Most people believe that tipping should not be based on wins but on service, so keep that in mind, whether you win or lose. I like that idea and I'll tip more to the better dealers who get all of my bets right, are pleasant, and are quick..

Gotcha!

Quote: boymimbo

(3) Take your time. The table wins more with more rolls/hour so there is pressure from the stick to get the dice out. To slow the casino down, go ahead and count your chips, calm down, and when the dice is passed to you, just do what you need to do, play with the dice for a few seconds, take a deep breath, and slow the game down. Players like a slower table in general as well as it gives them more time to think about their action and it slows down losing streaks and makes winning streaks and rolls seem longer..

Yes. Thanks for this important information. That's why all along I felt nervous and felt like I don't have control because as the game is so fast, you lose track of how you are doing.

Quote: boymimbo

(4) The proper time to drop a bet is when the dice are in the middle of the table. Certainly, most dealers won't mind a late center call because any action in the middle has a HA of at least 9 percent and is a profit boon for the casino. Some casinos allow "call bet", and if you are a regular, they're more likely to accept it than not. The stick should be giving you adequate time to place your bets absolutely and I've run into that from time to time and I'm fairly fast at putting my bets down.

Believe me, I think that one time that happened was when the stick just pushed out the dice right away without hesitation as if there was only one person playing.

Quote: DeMango

Oh this is a Jerry moment and he is not here. I will do my best.

1. Buy a pair of glasses, you can't see 12 feet??? You are by yourself you can't stand next to the stick?????

2. Don't tip.

3. Lay $90? That's 3 green and 3 red. You do have your chips arranged?????

4. In the time the shooter has to place chips for odds behind, you don't have time to place chips in the come area and say "Laying $9"???

We got what, 4 days to wait, almost an eternity.

I really wonder if this user is being sarcastic. How can you see all the way down?
Don't tip?
3 red and 3 green? A lot of times there are a bunch of reds with no greens. You can count 18 reds exactly and have it down on the table in 3 seconds?
When someone plays the don't come everyone has their odds down already. The dice just keeps going out. So yes there wasn't enough time for that one roll.

Quote: focd

I really wonder if this user is being sarcastic.

He's TOTALLY sarcastic.

The "Jerry" comment is intented to mean that this is probably how JerryLogan would have responded.

I.E. Here's an answer - do the opposite.

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't mean to be rude to anyone but the earlier I thought the response was somewhat unfriendly. I also have a new question-

So when you're playing by yourself (I probably won't do this again), is it ok to take breaks repeatedly? I mean let's say you have 300 bucks and it can go quickly. So is it weird to ask them to stop every few minutes or so as you count your chips?

EDIT - What I mean is if you just KEEP GOING, even if you're up by a grand, you can lose it all back within 15 minutes or so. Which is why I ask because I feel like craps is a game where the player really doesn't have much control over the flow as like blackjack or roulette where you can ask to sit out at any time. In craps they have to wait for you.

Quote: boymimbo

(1) ... You can always switch ends I guess.

Not if you're planning on shooting. Moving around disrupts the "everyone gets a turn being the shooter" and is therefore discouraged. Plus, at a crowded table, you won't be able to get back in.

Quote: boymimbo

(4) ... Some casinos allow "call bet."

Note that many casinos have "No Call Bets" printed on the felt. This does NOT mean that you can't call a bet. It means you can't call it unless you have chips on the rail (or in your hand and inside the tub) to pay for the call.

Quote: focd

So when you're playing by yourself (I probably won't do this again), is it ok to take breaks repeatedly? I mean let's say you have 300 bucks and it can go quickly. So is it weird to ask them to stop every few minutes or so as you count your chips?

If you're by yourself, they generally slow the game for you anyway. But it's fine if you want to bring the table to a halt, even in the middle of a roll. Just don't walk away.

You can step into the aisle, do what you gotta do, whatever. As long as you're nearby, ready to resume if someone else steps up, then it's no problem.

I've done it. I might even start bullshitting with the dealers, or tell jokes, or even just do a few knee bends. At some point the stick will bring the dice back to the middle and say to let him know when you're ready.

On the other hand, if it gets excessive, then they may say something. But if you're just going at a leisurely pace, it shouldn't be a problem.

---

If I'm shooting, and it's a busy table, and I see a late bet, it doesn't bother me. If it happens again, I might ask the stick to take the dice back to the middle. He'll then run it a little slower, making sure all bets are in before moving the dice.

Here's another one -

The burden of being a shooter - you can't quit if you make the point - well, you CAN but they give you that BS look as if you can't
so let's say someone else just joins the table and they don't want to shoot - and you don't want to shoot/want to quit
so it's ok just to say NO right? so what happens if no one wants to shoot?
I just don't like that aww come on just shoot nonsense
especially sometimes you shoot from the don't and lose a few times, you just want to stop
I don't want to be pressured into playin the DOs if I am shooting

A shooter may pass the dice at ANY time for any reason whatsoever without giving any explanation or apology. If he is the only player at the table, the shooter may still pass the dice at any time and the house must finish the roll. No one can ever be compelled to roll the bones even if such behavior is annoyingly and foolishly disruptive. He can be asked to leave after the roll ends but he does not have to shoot if he does not want to shoot.

I often bet on the Dark Side and when I shoot the stick man often intones "From the Don't, hoping they won't". Occasionally I've had some player comment to me about being on the Don't even when I am shooting, but this happens only in the really cheap flea-infested casinos and I will brook no harassment about my decision to be the shooter and to simultaneously be on the Dark Side.

So what happens if NO ONE at the table wants to shoot? What does the house do in this situation on a come out roll?

Quote: focd

So what happens if NO ONE at the table wants to shoot? What does the house do in this situation on a come out roll?

There will be no come out roll in that situation. Game Stops. The house will not START a roll. The house will probably ask the only player at the table to finish his roll but they can not insist upon it. They never really want to have anyone but a player roll the bones and they know that most players will want to shoot when it is there turn and certainly most players will finish a roll once they have started shooting, but it can not be required of them. If the shooter wants to pass the dice at any time during his roll and have his contract bet be determined by someone else rolling the bones, he can do it. The shooter's line bet is a contract bet, the shooter's act of rolling the bones is not a contract on his part.

NOTE: If you are the only player at the table, then that 1.414 percent house edge is working upon you very often. Its similar to being the only one at a Blackjack table or the only one at a MiniBacc table. A dealer will often slow things down at BJ or MiniBacc if you are the only player and not doing very well, but at a craps game the crew rarely wants to slow things down when they should. If you are the only player at the table there is no real need to allow them to rush you. Make it a leisurely game. After all, its not as if other players will complain. If you are alone at the table, slow things down yourself and speak to the Stick if he doesn't get the idea.

Now sometimes a crew wants to go home on an Early Out request when things are really slow and so if you suddenly join a dead table that they want the Floor to close and let them go home, they will try to pick up the pace, but that is rare.

Quote: FleaStiff

A shooter may pass the dice at ANY time for any reason whatsoever without giving any explanation or apology. If he is the only player at the table, the shooter may still pass the dice at any time and the house must finish the roll.

Really? I would have thought that the house would suggest the player find someone to shoot - or to just wait for someone else to step up and volunteer to take over.

It seems to me that it makes no difference to the house if a table is empty or has one person standing and not playing, unless, as you pointed out, they want to close the table.

Quote: focd

So what happens if NO ONE at the table wants to shoot? What does the house do in this situation on a come out roll?

That rarely happens. I saw it once when there were only four players. Normally, all four are the type to pass the dice. There was a delay of about ten seconds until one of them decided to throw. By the time he was done (good roll, by the way), there were enough other players that wanted to shoot that it wasn't a problem anymore.

> I was wondering if there is a spot or spots where you can stand where you can actually see the dice?
You can stand anywhere you want to as long as you stay put. Your bets are positioned by where you place your chips in the rail or else by where you are standing. If the table gets busier, you don't want confusion. So stay put! Miscalls are few and really should not be a worry to you. If you want to stand next to the stick so as to be close to where the dice land, so be it. Just don't throw the dice in the wrong direction because you will wake up the Boxman.

>what is the right tipping rate for craps and how should it be done?
The RATE is whatever YOU are comfortable with.
The MANNER is whatever YOU are comfortable with.

I suggest an initial Line Bet for yourself and modest Line Bet for the Dealers... it gets their attention and it won't hurt their view of you as a player, but its up to you. I do not suggest a tip at cashing out. Pay attention to being colored up and don't distract anyone, particularly yourself, with some farewell tip to the dealers. Some joints will try to "tax" a player at color up. Pay attention.

>I feel that this an expensive game for tips because you have to take care of 3 people/dealers.
Actually FOUR. Since they have one relief dealer on a rotation break, but don't let that disturb you. You tip for service, if its decent. If you get very good service you tip a bit better and if you are winning most people share their good fortune with a bit of an extra tip. If the dealers have pointed out a missed bet to you or gave you the benefit of some doubt or whatever... tip them! How the tips are shared and how other people have or have not been tipping is not your concern.

> do they call "dice are out" everywhere?
No. A stick man should always announce a Come Out Roll by some usage such as "they are coming out" or "we are coming out" or "Come Out Roll" or the like.
But a statement that the dice are no longer in the center of the table and are being given to the shooter is not always done. Indeed its rather rare particularly if the table is not full or frenzied. If you see the stick man pushing the dice out faster than you have been able to get your bets down, feel free to just call out your intended bet to the dealer. He will probably acknowledge your bet even if there is no time to repeat it formally. The crew has to learn to work together and feel free to talk to the dealer if its habitual. He can talk to the stick and the Box. If he doesn't then you can speak up directly. The stick will have heard your comment to the dealer but if he keeps up the too rapid pace then you speak up. After all, if there are still hands all over the place, the stick should know that he will only get complaints if he sends the dice out really quickly.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

4 - The only time I've heard "dice are out" is when there is a player who repeatedly places late bets and/or has his hands in the tub. And, yeah, good dealers that recognize your patterns will let you slide with the late bets - particularly if you tip and/or pay up when you had a late bet lose.

In my neck of the woods, "dice are out" are called often. Not all the time, but definitely more than half.

Interesting.

I also discovered recently that there's some state law about prohibiting betting with cash - there was a few guys that kept trying to use bills to do last second prop bets, and the stickman had to constantly remind them that "cash does not play". I thought that was interesting too.

As far as pacing goes, I don't like being at a table by myself; it makes the game go too fast (or at least seem to go too fast) for my tastes. Being by myself is pretty rare, though; usually there's at least a few people playing.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Really? I would have thought that the house would suggest the player find someone to shoot - or to just wait for someone else to step up and volunteer to take over.

It is extremely rare that a Boxman will ever take over. Usually there will be someone at the table or even a passerby who will come to the rescue or the shooter will realize he is being a jerk and will change his mind, but the house is required to determine the contract bet in a prompt and fair manner. And yes, if you ever actually see this very rare event happen: the floor and pit will be there as witnesses and the stick man will still turn the dice before pushing them out to the Boxman. The house never really wants anyone but a player to roll the bones.

>I saw it once when there were only four players.
Yep. I had sevened out and the dice went to the other end of the table where all four players passed the dice when the stick pushed the dice in front of them, so although I didn't want to shoot anymore, I said okay to the Stick and the dice came back to my end of the table where I was the only player and the game continued. Its really rare that people do not want to shoot and even more rare for someone who has started shooting to want to pass the dice in mid-roll.

Has anyone hear tossed the dice without having any money on the Pass/Don't Pass line?

I have!

It was long ago and I don't remember the exact numbers but here's the story.

I was playing from the Don't side and the only other player at the table was playing the Pass line.

The shooter established a point number. Let's say the 6. I then established 3 Don't Come numbers. Let's say the 8, 9, and 10.

The shooter then made his Point 6. He made more Pass line bets and threw something like 3,3,2,11,2,12,2 and decided he had enough and he left the table.

This was early in the morning and they wanted to close the table. They passed the dice to me and I refused to put any more money out on the table. I already had 3 Don't Come bets out there. They waited for a while for someone to walk up to the table to bet and shoot and but no one ever did. They wanted to close the table and they wanted to return my bets to me. I REFUSED and said to leave my bets alone. After some discussion, they told me to shoot the dice even though I HAD NO MONEY ON THE LINE.

I knocked down one of my numbers before I sevened out.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

... If I'm shooting, and it's a busy table, and I see a late bet, it doesn't bother me. If it happens again, I might ask the stick to take the dice back to the middle. He'll then run it a little slower, making sure all bets are in before moving the dice.

I have had a number of occasions on which I felt the stick man was pushing the dice to me too quickly, while other players (often at the other end of the table) were still trying to place bets. I simply make the comment, "I am not in so much of a hurry to lose my money that I can't wait for someone else to place theirs at risk." The stick man usually gets the idea, but if he doesn't, I'm always willing to just stand and look at the dice until all the hand/chip action stops getting in the way of my roll. I had one stick man who seemed a bit pushy, telling me the dice were ready. I told him I would roll them when the folks finished transacting business in my target zone of the table.

Quote: FleaStiff

It is extremely rare that a Boxman will ever take over. Usually there will be someone at the table or even a passerby who will come to the rescue or the shooter will realize he is being a jerk and will change his mind, but the house is required to determine the contract bet in a prompt and fair manner. And yes, if you ever actually see this very rare event happen: the floor and pit will be there as witnesses and the stick man will still turn the dice before pushing them out to the Boxman. The house never really wants anyone but a player to roll the bones.

I wished I would have known that...there used to be this dick of a boxman, and if I woulda known he woulda been forced to shoot, I would have done that at least once a day to him ($2 table)

Great questions - let me take my shot.

The cherry spot is left or right of the stick. You have a shorter throw and can see the dice - and for all you eagle eyes out there - I'm 66 years old and sometimes, given the lighting, I can't see the dice from one end of a 12 foot table to the other.

Tip during the play but not every hand. When you do you could put a couple of bucks on the hard 6 or hard 8. If the table has a fire bet put a buck on the fire for the team. If you are a prop bettor and you just hit a good payoff follow it up with a bet for the dealers of a buck or so on your replay. When you shoot put a bet on the line for them - no more than a buck or two and you don't have to play odds. I usually make it a place bet on the point. If I hit a couple of points the dealer bet increases. If I hit a big payoff on a place bet I generally put a place bet down for the dealers on that number. I always leave something when I leave the table. If I've won big I leave a good sized tip if I didn't I leave a smaller tip. If I've lost - no tip - which is why I like tipping as we go.

This has been answered adequately - you control the pace of the table when you are the only one there. Remember the casino needs you - you do not need them. Also the reason they kept shoving the dice at you is because most single shooters like a fast game.

Most places I play they say "dice are moving" which is the indicator that the stick is passing the dice to the shooter. If a person is attempting to bet at that time they will tell them dice are out. If the table likes the person who is trying to bet and he drops his money on the table and calls his bet the one of the team will normally say - "bet" as in "it's a bet."

I've seen people give up in the middle of a point - for the life of me I have no idea why they do that. I've seen others quit after making a point and still others quit after hitting a couple of 7's on the come out roll.

Quote: FleaStiff

Now sometimes a crew wants to go home on an Early Out request when things are really slow and so if you suddenly join a dead table that they want the Floor to close and let them go home, they will try to pick up the pace, but that is rare.

So do casinos in Reno/Vegas (Nevada) usually have craps 24 hours a day (at least one table open) or is it too costly to have 1 open early in the morning (4-8am)?

Edit - I ask because they close the craps tables during certain hours at the local casinos in California. (not sure what time or how they close it - but they are usually open around 12pm at most)

Quote: focd

So do casinos in Reno/Vegas (Nevada) usually have craps 24 hours a day (at least one table open) or is it too costly to have 1 open early in the morning (4-8am)?

Edit - I ask because they close the craps tables during certain hours at the local casinos in California. (not sure what time or how they close it - but they are usually open around 12pm at most)

I've never seen a casino with all the craps tables closed in Nevada, even early in the morning in the middle of a non-holiday week. I have seen some joints put up a short wall to cut a full table into a "tub" which was run by one stick/dealer.

Quote: Ayecarumba

I've never seen a casino with all the craps tables closed in Nevada, even early in the morning in the middle of a non-holiday week. I have seen some joints put up a short wall to cut a full table into a "tub" which was run by one stick/dealer.

Just curious as to how often you go to play out in Nevada? I am curious to know as you get probably the worst service if the craps crew wants to leave/go home. This is also where all these conspiracy theories also come in (dealers probably calling out the wrong numbers so you lose faster so they can go home).

What I have seen is they have a craps table open but with no dealer on one side in CA. They don't however, put up a wall. There is still a boxman though. I thought it was a first to see a boxman/pitboss wander off in CA. In Reno, they did the same thing (no boxman sometimes).

Last year, on a Friday afternoon at Ellis Island there was one dealer, no box person or stick. It was me and one other guy at the table...the dealer was perfect, no mistakes, though after about 15 minutes she looked exhausted. If I remember correctly, the box person was splitting time between the craps table and a few card tables.

When I was in Vegas last September, I stayed at Sahara. They had three tables, but I never saw more than two open, usually only one. One morning (Thursday?) I went down at around 7:00 and there were none open. This year I stayed at Imperial Palace, but stopped at Sahara lunchtime one day. They had removed one table, and only one was open - and it was running without a boxman.

In fact, that's one of the things I noticed on my trip this year. Craps tables in many casinos did not have a boxman.

Quote: Ayecarumba

I've never seen a casino with all the craps tables closed in Nevada, even early in the morning in the middle of a non-holiday week. I have seen some joints put up a short wall to cut a full table into a "tub" which was run by one stick/dealer.

I have seen a number of smaller casinos that may be open 24/7 for slots but do not operate any of their table games around the clock. Examples I remember in metro Las Vegas include Gold Spike, Club Fortune, and probably some others. I'm fairly certain I have seen places with BJ running but all craps tables down, but I can't remember clearly enough to cite the casino. The one time that I visited the Silver Saddle (an experience I wrote about on this forum last May), I learned that their tables (no craps) were only open a few days a week because of the down economy. I suspect the same factor impacts whether some places can operate a crap table 24/7.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

When I was in Vegas last September, I stayed at Sahara. They had three tables, but I never saw more than two open, usually only one. One morning (Thursday?) I went down at around 7:00 and there were none open.

This is something I am curious about and really want to know. So do some casinos (real casinos with hotels in Vegas/Reno - not those tiny casinos) really have all craps tables down during certain hours? Anyone confirm this?

This is sort of related - I've always wondered how much money casinos actually make off of craps tables, minus labor. That's a lot of staffing to put toward just one game, so I guess it's not surprising that casinos might be trying to cut down on number of personnel at a table in slow hours.

I mean, think about it: Blackjack takes one dealer, experienced ones can go fast, and people love the game, so there's no reason not to have at least one table open. Craps takes four! And what if you only have one or two guys standing around making minimum pass line bets or something?

When you look at the revenue numbers for Craps for the Vegas strip, the stats show plenty of profit for the game. There are 200 Craps games open on the strip, with a net win of 236 million dollars in the last twelve months ending December. So 800 dealers, 236 million dollars. That's 295K / table.

Compare that to Blackjack, that made 710 million dollars for 1,398 tables, or about 507K / table.
Roulette's number is 260 million for 273 units or about 950K / table.
Bacarrat makes about 5 million per table in the last 12 months.

At $295K/table, it's profitable enough, even with 4 dealers. At Mohegan Sun/Foxwoods, I've seen the tables populated without the Boxman (only three dealers).

Quote: boymimbo

When you look at the revenue numbers for Craps for the Vegas strip, the stats show plenty of profit for the game. There are 200 Craps games open on the strip, with a net win of 236 million dollars in the last twelve months ending December. So 800 dealers, 236 million dollars. That's 295K / table.

Compare that to Blackjack, that made 710 million dollars for 1,398 tables, or about 507K / table.
Roulette's number is 260 million for 273 units or about 950K / table.
Bacarrat makes about 5 million per table in the last 12 months.

At $295K/table, it's profitable enough, even with 4 dealers. At Mohegan Sun/Foxwoods, I've seen the tables populated without the Boxman (only three dealers).

Where did you get this information?
NOTE- I still want this answered
This is something I am curious about and really want to know. So do some casinos (real casinos with hotels in Vegas/Reno - not those tiny casinos) really have all craps tables down during certain hours? Anyone confirm this?

Two things:

1. "Dice are out" I guess is regional - I hear it 9 times out of 10 when gambling around Seattle (Snoqualmie).

2. What you can do to slow things down is set the dice. I like throwing the dice with two 3's making an arrow towards the other end of the table. What the game craps does well is it leads you into the false sense that you have control over your outcome (especially when shooting). Doing something like this is stupid and pointless, but it increases the game's fun for me.

Quote: ahiromu

1. "Dice are out" I guess is regional - I hear it 9 times out of 10 when gambling around Seattle (Snoqualmie).

I don't remember exactly where I hear this but I do hear it a lot in CA. I HOPE THEY HAVE IT EVERYWHERE. That way hands will not be placing bets and people will drop their chips and make their bets on time!!!! Having it, in my opinion, IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN NOT HAVING IT!!!
NOTE- I still want this answered
This is something I am curious about and really want to know. So do some casinos (real casinos with hotels in Vegas/Reno - not those tiny casinos) really have all craps tables down during certain hours? Anyone confirm this?

Some casinos are slot parlors with only such table games as they have to offer to keep their licenses as a casino. Those places are usually the smaller ones and they would have only a few blackjack tables and perhaps one craps table that might be open at most two of three shifts every 24 hours.

Even the very large mega resorts will some craps tables that are unmanned during slack times. From about 5:00am onward things can be really dead and thats why at 8:00am or 9:00am I usually show up and there will be one or two tables going with more slowly getting first banked and then staffed. I like it when I'm in the casino and the vacuum cleaners, drug sniffing dogs, etc. come around. Later the additional tables open up but there might be no players there yet. That is why lessons are often scheduled at 11:00am. By then there may be action at a few of the tables with a table or two manned and ready but no one yet playing there. It varies. Sometimes you show up at 7:00am and you can see the same people at one of the craps tables who were there the previous night. I remembered one man who was winning and I wanted to stay at the table but was just too tired the night before ... he was still there early the next morning and still winning when I showed up after a night's sleep. Gamblers are often unpredictable but the tables can't make money if they are not open. If an early morning ten dollar table gets crowded they may open up another ten dollar one or they may open up another one but make it 25.00 minimum. It often seems whimsical but they usually have crews starting at staggered hours so that they will have the ability to take care of sudden throngs of players who show up.

Quote: focd

NOTE- I still want this answered
This is something I am curious about and really want to know. So do some casinos (real casinos with hotels in Vegas/Reno - not those tiny casinos) really have all craps tables down during certain hours? Anyone confirm this?

I know you were asking to have my statement confirmed by someone else, but I'll elaborate.

Last year I stayed at the Sahara, for a convention at the Convention Center. I woke up early each day (actually late compared to being used to East Coast time), and went to play a little craps before getting on the monorail. Each day there were usually only a couple people playing when I joined. And, I always won a few bucks. Then on one of my last days, I again woke up early, but there were no open craps tables.

Mind you, my intention was to play craps. I expected one to be open, and was surprised that it wasn't. That's why I so vividly remember it.

This year, I went to Sahara briefly one day at lunchtime. Only one of the two tables were open. I though that there were three tables last year, while there were only two tables now. So I asked. Yep, they had recently taken one out.

Based on that, I'd say that, at Sahara anyway, you should not be surprised to find no open craps tables in the early morning.

Quote: focd

NOTE- I still want this answered
This is something I am curious about and really want to know. So do some casinos (real casinos with hotels in Vegas/Reno - not those tiny casinos) really have all craps tables down during certain hours? Anyone confirm this?

Circus Circus (LV).

I have been in Caesars numerous times in the early morning 5:00 to 7:00 when only one of the their many craps tables have been open. I have also seen only two open with no action at either one of them. I have never seen all tables closed.

Quote: focd

What I have seen is they have a craps table open but with no dealer on one side in CA. They don't however, put up a wall. There is still a boxman though. I thought it was a first to see a boxman/pitboss wander off in CA. In Reno, they did the same thing (no boxman sometimes).

When I was in Reno recently, at the Sands they had a wall cutting off 1/3 of the table, one dealer and no boxman. My friend and I were the only players. After a few more people came up to play, they removed the wall and added another dealer. Several places had a "short" crew. They are hurting! Harrah's was the only place where they had a full crew, including boxman, all the time, but still they had only one table open.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA

Quote: focd

Where did you get this information?
NOTE- I still want this answered
This is something I am curious about and really want to know. So do some casinos (real casinos with hotels in Vegas/Reno - not those tiny casinos) really have all craps tables down during certain hours? Anyone confirm this?

I've never been in a casino that didn't have at least one craps table staffed 24/7. I know I've been the last man standing at quite a few but just because I left didn't mean the crew could.

But I've only been in one where it seems there is always a game 24/7 and that is Bally's in Atlantic City. Many a morning I've awoken at 0-dark-30 and wandered down to the casino floor in search of a cup of coffee only to wind up at an action packed craps table.

Quote: kenarman

I have been in Caesars numerous times in the early morning 5:00 to 7:00 when only one of the their many craps tables have been open. I have also seen only two open with no action at either one of them. I have never seen all tables closed.

I was at Caesars Vegas once and they only had one table open at 5 A.M. I wandered over and took a spot to the right of the stick when I noticed that there was only one player at that end of the table, she had a rack of chips of a color which I only dream about and the limit, on that end of the table, was $1000. I said, "excuse me" and took my place at the other end of the table where the limit was a more reasonable $25.

At least you saw the limit sign at your end promptly.

I hate it when my local HappyWampum casino uses the exact same color sign for a ten dollar MiniBacc table as they use for a twenty dollar MiniBacc table. I mean come on now... we aren't always fully alert and we just glance at the color of the sign anyway if its a craps table so if that is the habit we are in... why does the HappyWampum try to confuse and mislead me?

These new electronic signs at a craps table can be annoying. If I notice the sign change during the roll that's fine, but I still have to listen to the crew make the announcement. And since the limit had gone down, I'm sure most people were happy, but I saw the sign change and don't want to hear the spiel as well.

With all of the craps tables available, it doesn't mean that they are all open all of the time. Certainly after 2am and before noon, there might be only 1 table open. Typically at the Wynn, for example, even though they have 10 craps table, I've never seen more than 3 or 4 in operation, with the exception of a Saturday night when 6 or 7 might be open. Most casinos have alot of excess capacity with most of their tables closed most of the time. This goes with all table games, not just craps.

The numbers that I gave are from the Gaming Control board's revenue reports.

Quote: Martin

I was at Caesars Vegas once and they only had one table open at 5 A.M. I wandered over and took a spot to the right of the stick when I noticed that there was only one player at that end of the table, she had a rack of chips of a color which I only dream about and the limit, on that end of the table, was $1000. I said, "excuse me" and took my place at the other end of the table where the limit was a more reasonable $25.

Different minimums on the sides of a table, huh? That makes sense, since the two sides are just mirror images of each other, but I don't think I've ever seen that. Interesting.

I know it sounds crazy but they only had one team and I guess this woman whomever she might be wanted to play really, really high stakes and the casino didn't want to crowd her. Can't blame them, probably made the pit's hold for the night and then some.

Makes sense to me too, particularly when you consider that casinos are known to go out of their way to satisfy the silly requests of high rollers.

I used to wonder why I never see a craps table in the high limit room. Then it hit me that high rollers want to play with low rollers, and partiicularly when novices and virgins shoot.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I used to wonder why I never see a craps table in the high limit room. Then it hit me that high rollers want to play with low rollers, and particularly when novices and virgins shoot.

Yes. At a Blackjack table they may up the limit to keep people away from a certain player and will even offer meal comps to induce people already there to move along quickly. However, craps players, even if they are playing large, will want others at the table though possibly at the other end. Sometimes you will see a Reserved Sign on one end of a craps table... its usually for a high roller who will show up later. He gets an exclusive end of the table but he is not all alone and people can be impressed by his bankroll and he can know when a pretty girl is shooting for the first time.