Reasonable Buy-In Amount

I find it slightly annoying when players continue buying more chips (and holding up play) instead of buying a reasonable amount at once.

I’ll define a reasonable buy-in as enough to last 2 hours of play (75% confidence level).

My estimate for this amount is the standard deviation times 1.25. I’m assuming we only play low house edge games, and the HE is almost negligible over 2 hours.

Examples:

Blackjack assume 60 hands per hour and SD of 1.15. So the buy-in would be (60 * 2)^.5 * 1.15 * 1.25 = about 16 units. For a $25 player that’s $400

Craps 3/4/5 max odds passline assume 35 resolutions per hour and SD of 5 based on flat bet amount. So the buy-in would be (35 * 2)^.5 * 5 * 1.25 = about 52 units. For a $25 player that’s $1,300

Does anyone have another method of estimating this ?

It all depends on how you bet as well. I am of the mind that 30x your minimum bet is reasonable at a BJ table. That said I am not gonna stare down someone for buying in for $100 at a $10 table either. The annoying ones are those that buy in for 2x the table min like uncrumpling a $20 bill at a $10 table

In BJ, I usually buy in about eight to ten times my typical bet. I've been doing it so long, I don't recall why. I imagine I read it in a book, but which one or who wrote it escapes me. I do know it wasn't Max Rubin.

Quote: billryan

In BJ, I usually buy in about eight to ten times my typical bet. I've been doing it so long, I don't recall why. I imagine I read it in a book, but which one or who wrote it escapes me. I do know it wasn't Max Rubin.

For a card counter, which I know you are, you want to do what won't make you stand out. For red chip play, like a $10 table, most players buy in for $100. So that is 10 times min wager. @ 25 tables you will see most players buy in for anywhere between $300 and $500.

That said, I don't do it that way. lol. I mostly enter a game with chips in hand (chip inventory) to avoid that first possible interaction with pit. But when I do buy in, the OP of this thread definitely wouldn't want me at his table. lol. I will buy in for $100 at a $25 minimum table. While this doesn't eliminate that first interaction with pit, it does send a message that, I don't have much money, won't be here long and am no threat. And that is the message I want to send entering a game. First impressions and all.

To emphasize that first impression (little money, no threat), I usually try to buy in with 20's rather than a Benny. Crumpled up 20's even. Although I sometimes save the crumpled up 20's for my second buy-in, to re-affirm that message.

By the time the count starts going positive and I am betting bigger, if I have to buy in, THEN I buy-in for larger amounts. This is when the pit usually becomes interested in me, but by then I am already planning my exit at the next shuffle, so I can usually kind of dismiss them with a "I'm leaving in a few minutes anyway" type thing.

Most craps tables seem to be $25, Biloxi or Vegas strip. What is my buy in for $25 line, $60 6 & 8??

I'm typically a low limit player. At $5/$10 BJ table, I'll buy in for $100. At $20/$25 PGT/PGP, I'll buy in for $200-$300. At $5 craps with 10x odds (or $10 table with 3/4/5 odds), I'll buy in for $400-$500 since I'll always take full odds and I don't bet anything else except for dealer tips. If I lose my buy-in, that's a time to take a walk. Recently I've thought about buying in for $620 whenever I get back to a craps table since it's a full stack of $1/$5/$25 chips and gives me about the right distribution of chips (especially for $5 table with 10x odds).

I like to play fast as well and anything that slows the game down is irritating.

Check changes are even worse. Players always need to convert higher denomination chips to lower, and the dealer always yelling out check change or waiting for approval or verification is just as bad. If I need nickels, I always turn in 3 quarters, that way their is no approval necessary.

Even worse is when the table does not have the proper fill. Whenever a game closes, they should always refill the tray so that its ready to go when they open back up.

When I was playing poker back in Vegas at the Bellagio, I always had a rack of blues so that I could always bet with a stack of blues so I could replenish the dealers rack so my table would never have to call for a fill.

Unless its pai gow poker, I typically buy-in for 20X my bet size.

Quote: Vegasrider

I like to play fast as well and anything that slows the game down is irritating.

Check changes are even worse. Players always need to convert higher denomination chips to lower, and the dealer always yelling out check change or waiting for approval or verification is just as bad. If I need nickels, I always turn in 3 quarters, that way their is no approval necessary.

Even worse is when the table does not have the proper fill. Whenever a game closes, they should always refill the tray so that its ready to go when they open back up.

When I was playing poker back in Vegas at the Bellagio, I always had a rack of blues so that I could always bet with a stack of blues so I could replenish the dealers rack so my table would never have to call for a fill.

Once I enter the Blackjack Zone, the only thing I pay attention to are the cards I can see on the table.

If I'm just betting the PL/DC, I'll buy-in for $200 at a $5 table, $400 at a $10 table, $600 at a $15 table, and $1000 at a $25 table.
But I've only recently set up these amounts. I last bought in for $75 in reds, $50 in whites, and $75 in greens (for later chip changing for reds & whites, or for later bets at $25+). Before, I would just buy-in for 10x my base PB 6 or 8 bet with 10x reds & 10x whites. If I'm gonna bet the PB 6 & 8 I should start with 20x my base bet. Seriously, I'm so disgusted at my PL results from other shooters I wind up betting a single PB instead, so I only lose one bet per shooter. With only half the shooters at the table during COVID-19, I'll be able to shoot with only half the table making horrible rolls before it's my turn again.

Quote: ChumpChange

I'm so disgusted at my PL results from other shooters I wind up betting a single PB instead, so I only lose one bet per shooter. With only half the shooters at the table during COVID-19, I'll be able to shoot with only half the table making horrible rolls before it's my turn again.

I agree and to limit losses I'm going to a dooey-don't. With limits moving from $5-10 to $25, there is too much to lose to bad shooters. The New Normal for the craps table.

With half the players, won't you eliminate half the bad shooters?

Quote: billryan

With half the players, won't you eliminate half the bad shooters?

True, but I want to eliminate ALL!

I'm with you on the frequent cash-ins being annoying, but never thought to design a formula around it haha. When people are frequently coloring up or breaking chips down it's a pain and feeling the game slow down can seem unbearable if it's constant. Some people definitely want to get a black chip just as they pass having $100 or $120 in chips and then end up bouncing up and down between red and black chips. I'm also of the mind that a counter shouldn't cash in for too much at once.

Another reason to buy-in for a larger amount is that it supposedly helps your comp rating

I worked at a casino and can tell you that at least in our systems, buy-in size had nothing to do with comps.

Just saw a young, slender fellow with braided hair buy-in for $20 at a $25 BJ table. He sat there for a few minutes staring blankly, then pushed his chips forward only for the dealer to inform him that it was $25 minimum. The youngster got up in a huff and said "They should tell you that before I bought these chips, what I'm gonna do with this now?"

Ugh. People are insufferable. Hahaha