BlackJack

Hello,
I´m new playing blackjack, is there any diference of playing in one house or two houses? Why do some casino make play at least in 2 houses, does it change houseedge? Does it change player´s edge?

Thanks for all

Robert Link

South Africa

Quote: Nenuco33

Hello,
I´m new playing blackjack, is there any diference of playing in one house or two houses? Why do some casino make play at least in 2 houses, does it change houseedge? Does it change player´s edge?

Thanks for all

Robert Link

South Africa

Hello, Robert, and welcome to the forum.

I'm not sure I understand you saying "houses". It's not a term usually associated with Blackjack. (Perhaps someone else does, and will enlighten me.) Can you ask your question a different way?

Houses means boxes, sorry.

If you're asking why some casinos require you to pay twice the table minimum in order to play in two places, the answer is that it's because you're theoretically removing another player's chance to play and that player may have wished to play for higher stakes than you.

Does the houseedge or players edge changes with playing in one box or two or more boxes?

At the hundred dollar table there is no need to play 200 per to play two circles (two "houses" "boxes"), they figure you've earned that right by being at the black chip table.

But if you're playing 100 min or 100 x 2 min then must be prepared to jump the bet by enough times X to take advantage of any superior card flow/count whatever you want to call it. Which is why I never understand these guys who show up at the black chip table with a measly 500 or 1000 or so, thinking this is where they belong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxlbeqeGkQ8

If you take up two circles versus two different players taking up one circle each nothing changes as far as house edge that's all set based on the rules of the table. Also how deep they deal into the deck is beneficial if you are tracking the cards.

Quote: Nenuco33

Does the houseedge or players edge changes with playing in one box or two or more boxes?

Essentially no change in house edge. There may be very rare instances when seeing more other cards might change your strategy, but basically no change in house edge for all practical purposes.

I doubt this is what you are asking about, but if you have been counting cards and have identified that the remaining cards favor the player then betting a second hand will be advantageous to you, especially if you are not the only player at the table.

Playing two hands simultaneously is theoretically equivalent to playing two successive hands.
Practically, it makes a difference only if you are counting cards.

Quote: kubikulann

Playing two hands simultaneously is theoretically equivalent to playing two successive hands.
Practically, it makes a difference only if you are counting cards.

Ditto.

Unless you’re counting and changing your strategy accordingly, the edge doesn’t change.

However, the variance will change. But it will be the same whether you play 2hand at once against 50 dealer hands, or 1 hand at a time for 100 hands.

Quote: kubikulann

Playing two hands simultaneously is theoretically equivalent to playing two successive hands.
Practically, it makes a difference only if you are counting cards.

Wouldn’t your wins and losses tend to be more correlated playing multiple hands at once ?

Imagine playing 5 hands at once vs the same dealer up card, vs playing 5 successive hands vs 5 different dealer hands.

Yes absolutely. When the dealer gets Blackjack (or 21), all of your hands lose (or lose/push). When dealer deals himself a 10, all of your hands will use the same strategy and hit until H17, which causes you to bust more. When dealer's upcard is a 5, all of your hands will be a favorite to win.

The EV is not changed by playing two hands, but the correlation causes your variance to be larger than if you played one hand.

Quote: gordonm888

Yes absolutely.
The EV is not changed by playing two hands, but the correlation causes your variance to be larger than if you played one hand.

The Original Poster’s question was about House edge, aka EV.
Corrélation has no impact on Expectations, only on Variance. More chance to win more and more chance to lose more. The average remains the same.

I don't think I saw anyone actually respond to the OP in terms of Expected Value (EV).

OP: If you're planning on playing blackjack today for 2 hours, with just basic strategy your EV will be -$X. If you are forced to play 2 hands, and you in fact play just as long as you planned to play before (2 hours) your EV for the day will now be -$2X. You will, on average, lose twice as much as you'd normally lose since you're essentially playing twice the number of hands.

The house edge itself does NOT change. What changes is your total amount of money wagered, which is figured in to EV.

EV = (AvgBet*NumHands)*(-.005)

AvgBet = your average bet approximated over your course of play. If you're a $10 player, never raising or lowering your bet, then your AvgBet = $10.
NumHands = the number of hands you play in the time span you play. THIS is what is going to change that makes you lose more money.

-.005 is a GENERIC -.5%, which "most" blackjack games are around, but that's also with playing PERFECT BASIC STRATEGY. Thus, if you're playing a slightly poorer game than basic strategy, you might be around -1%, and that 2nd hand is really starting to work on you.

EXAMPLE: using a generic .5% game, $10 flat bet as mentioned above, and an average of 80 hands per hour (pretty typical for your average player)...

*playing 1 hand for 2 hours = 160 hands total)*
EV = (10*160)*(-.005) = -$8

*playing 2 hands for 2 hours = 320 hands total)*
EV = (10*320)*(-.005) = -$16

Now if you're not playing perfect basic strategy for 2 hands
EV = (10*320)*(-.015) = -$48


See how things can go from -$8/hour on average in the long run to -$48/hour on average in the long run? It pays to know basic strategy and bet as little as possible if you're not an advantage player!

What is variance?

Quote: Nenuco33

What is variance?

Others can explain it more precisely, but

Variance is the mathematical word that accounts for luck or random chance.

It represents the range of deviation in any particular set of win or loss results from the expected average results.

If you play a game of blackjack that has a house edge of .5, (for example) for every $100 you wager using Optimal Strategy, you can expect to lose $0.50. But you will almost never have that result on any particular $100 you spend. Instead, you might win, or lose more than that (variance). Over time, and many $100 wagers, your results will conform to that .5 HE.

Hope that helps.

what are the calculations to calculate the variance?

Quote: Nenuco33

what are the calculations to calculate the variance?

Variance is the average of the square of the difference between the mean and the observations.

Quote: Nenuco33

what are the calculations to calculate the variance?

À simple example to understand variance is this. Imagine you play Heads or Tails. EV is zero, because in the long run each player wins and loses the same amount.

If you play for €1, the variance is 1€^2 (standard déviation €1)
If you play for €2, the variance is 4€^2 (standard dev €2)

To calculate easily, take the average of SQUARED results, then subtract the square of the expectation.

Quote: Nenuco33

What is variance?

Ratrher than look at the maths consider a number of games you might play. The assumption is you play each games 24 times betting $1 each time and the odds offered are fair. In both these games, in the long term you'll come out even, but consider what might happen over a shorter game.

(i) Heads or Tails
One of the simplest of games is Heads or Tails, depending on the result you will either win $1 or lose $1.

On a series of 24 spins, you are just as likely to come out ahead as come out behind. It is very unlikely you'd lose (or win) more than $10.

(ii) Double 6.
Consider a fairly risky game where you roll two dice. If you roll double 6 you win $35, otherwise you lose $1.

Strangely you are (nearly) just as likely to come out ahead as come out behind, but this time if you come out losing (by not rolling any winner) you lose all $24. On the other side you might roll several winners; you have a 1 in 7 chance of winning $48 or more.

In the first game you're not going to win a lot nor lose a lot - the variance is low.
In the second game you could win big (4% chance of over $120) but also there's a fair chance of losing all your money (51%). Being the more risky game the variance is fairly high.

If you know roulette then the first game is similar to betting Red or Black, and the second is similar to betting one number (although in both cases the casino wins something on any zero).

Discussion of personal insults, profanity, and forum rules has been split off to here:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/help/33335-forum-insults-and-profanity-split/

I think if there's a big difference between playing in one house and playing in two.

It's important to double-check all the details before confirming the transfer to ensure that the money reaches the correct account. If you have any doubts or questions, it's best to contact your bank for assistance.

^ the process I use when sending money to someone new is to create a new contact and send them (say) $1.xy . They confirm how many pennies/cents they got. Obviously this doesn’t stop someone who’s scamming you.

Quote: Aaron11

It's important to double-check all the details before confirming the transfer to ensure that the money reaches the correct account. If you have any doubts or questions, it's best to contact your bank for assistance.
link to original post

Random soul test:
How many three cent stamps in a dozen?

mod note: 48 hours starts now

Playing with one deck (house) versus multiple decks (houses) can affect the game. More decks increase the house edge slightly, making it harder for players to count cards and win consistently.

I saw a chart recently where if there's one player at a table they could play about 200 hands an hour, and 2 players could play about 150 hands an hour each, and 3 players could play about 100 hands an hour each. So if at a $50 table that isn't 6:5, you could play $50/hand as a lone player for 200 hands an hour, or $10,000/hr bet; $100/hand on two spots at 300 hands an hour, or $30,000/hr bet; and if playing 3 spots requires 5X the minimum, $250/hand at 300 hands an hour, or $75,000/hr bet.

If I'm at a $15 table, I guess I could spread to two spots at $30 each if I was going to bet $60 on a single hand. If I want 3 spots because I'm alone, that'd be $80 on each instead of betting $240 on one hand.
I read somewhere else this quote from a decade ago:
Never bet more than 1/2 of the Table Max.
Never bet more than 1/3 of the Table Max if the joint is sweaty.
Never bet more than 1/4 of the Table Max if you detect heat but have not yet left.

If the table has a $1K max, I may want to bet two spots at $500 instead of one hand at $1K according to this, or bet $500 on 3 spots instead of one hand over the limit at $1.5K.

Another line I read: Generally if your one hand bet is $100, then you can make two hand bets of $75 or three hand bets of around $60 at the same risk of ruin.

I'm not sure I can adapt that into my play but it's not the $100, $50, $33.33 I was expecting.

If I walk up to a $100 table, I can buy-in for 10 bets with $1K for single spot betting. If I divide 10 bets by 3/4 I get 13.33 bets, so I'll round up to 15 bets. For 2 spots I have to double my bet and buy-in for 15X my bet, so $200 for $3K. For 3 spots if I divide 10 bets by 6/10 I get 16.67, so I'll round up to 20 bets. My bets will be $500 and 20X that will be $10K.

Quote: ChumpChange

I saw a chart recently where if there's one player at a table they could play about 200 hands an hour, and 2 players could play about 150 hands an hour each, and 3 players could play about 100 hands an hour each. So if at a $50 table that isn't 6:5, you could play $50/hand as a lone player for 200 hands an hour, or $10,000/hr bet; $100/hand on two spots at 300 hands an hour, or $30,000/hr bet; and if playing 3 spots requires 5X the minimum, $250/hand at 300 hands an hour, or $75,000/hr bet.

If I remember correctly, I think we used to figure around 70 hands per hour for a typical table.

That's for 5 players. Full table of 7 players is 52 hands/hr per player. So it halves from 1 to 3 players and again at 7 players. 2 players is 139 hands/hr, not 150 hands/hr like I had rounded up to. I'd post the pic but it's from elsewhere so I can't. I could transcribe it. How about that?

Players	Hands/Hr.
1	209
2	139
3	105
4	84
5	70
6	60
7	52