Blackjack SD S17 4,4 vs 5 or 6

In your strategy chart for single deck S17 at https://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/strategy/1deck.html you indicate with a 4,4 vs a 5 or 6 to split if DAS allowed, otherwise double. In the game I am playing DAS is not allowed, but I can only double on 9-11. Should I hit or split?

HHHit.

Quote: teddys

HHHit.

Actually, the proper strategy would be, "leave" (if you can only double on 9-11).

Quote: mkl654321

Actually, the proper strategy would be, "leave" (if you can only double on 9-11).

If BJs pay 3:2, then it is a great game.
From Wiz house edge calculator
Number of decks of cards used: 1
Dealer hits or stands on a soft 17: stands
Player can double after a split: no
Player can double on: 9-11 only
Player can resplit to: 4 hands
Player can resplit aces: no
Player can hit split aces: no
Player loses only original bet against dealer BJ: yes
Late surrender allowed: no
Blackjack pays: 3 to 2

Optimal results: 0.09429%
Realistic results: 0.24599%

Thanks you two, but I would prefer to get the answer from the man himself. And this game actually has a player advantage over the house as outlined in my thread title "Black Gold 21".

Don't need to ask the Wizard:

4,4 vs. 5
E.V. Hit 0.153926
E.V. Split 0.091925

4,4 vs. 6
E.V. Hit 0.175290
E.V. Split 0.077621

Quote: jackblack21

Thanks you two, but I would prefer to get the answer from the man himself.

This does not sound very nice. Perhaps, you'd be better off sending him an email or a private message if you are not interested in a discussion with other people.

Quote:

And this game actually has a player advantage over the house as outlined in my thread title "Black Gold 21".

In that thread you said:

Quote:

no double downs or BJ after the split

Quote: miplet

If BJs pay 3:2, then it is a great game.
From Wiz house edge calculator
Number of decks of cards used: 1
Dealer hits or stands on a soft 17: stands
Player can double after a split: no
Player can double on: 9-11 only
Player can resplit to: 4 hands
Player can resplit aces: no
Player can hit split aces: no
Player loses only original bet against dealer BJ: yes
Late surrender allowed: no
Blackjack pays: 3 to 2

Optimal results: 0.09429%
Realistic results: 0.24599%

This can't be correct. A single-deck Strip rules game would be just about breakeven off the top. But this game is WORSE than that--no soft doubling allowed, which is a killer. The effect is about -0.13, which may not seem too bad, but it is terrible if you're counting, as it steals away many profit opportunities.

The only positive EV BJ game that ever existed involved single deck, S17, double on any two, and double after splits. Even then, that game was only slightly positive. This game, you can't double on hard 8, you can't double on soft counts, and you can't double after splits. It's not bad compared to some of the crap out there, but I wouldn't go out of my way to play it.

Quote: mkl654321

This can't be correct. A single-deck Strip rules game would be just about breakeven off the top. But this game is WORSE than that--no soft doubling allowed, which is a killer. The effect is about -0.13, which may not seem too bad, but it is terrible if you're counting, as it steals away many profit opportunities.

The only positive EV BJ game that ever existed involved single deck, S17, double on any two, and double after splits. Even then, that game was only slightly positive. This game, you can't double on hard 8, you can't double on soft counts, and you can't double after splits. It's not bad compared to some of the crap out there, but I wouldn't go out of my way to play it.

Sorry for the confusion. Those are the house edges. blackjackinfo.com gives a house edge of 0.11%.

Quote: teddys

Don't need to ask the Wizard:

4,4 vs. 5
E.V. Hit 0.153926
E.V. Split 0.091925

4,4 vs. 6
E.V. Hit 0.175290
E.V. Split 0.077621

Thank you teddys. I was able to confirm your numbers at https://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/appendix9-1ds17r4.htm

Quote: miplet

Sorry for the confusion. Those are the house edges. blackjackinfo.com gives a house edge of 0.11%.

Being able to hit split aces changes it to the player edge of about 0.02%. Six card charlie adds a tiny bit more.

Guys, here are the breakdown of the house edge on the game I was referring to as I understand it:

Number of decks of cards used: 1
Dealer hits or stands on a soft 17: stands
Player can double after a split: no
Player can double on: 9-11 only
Player can resplit to: 2 hands
Player can resplit aces: no
Player can hit split aces: yes
Player loses only original bet against dealer BJ: yes
Late surrender allowed: no
Blackjack pays: 3 to 2

Optimal results: -0.01978%
Realistic results: 0.13192%

There is also a six-card charlie in this game, which the Wizard says is worth another 0.16%. If we can assume it is not worth quite as much in a single deck game let's just give it a value of 0.12%.

I think it is the normal rule in blackjack that an ace and ten after splitting aces is not paid as a blackjack since the Wizard gives a 0.19% bonus for that "rule variation". There are no blackjacks after the split in this game.

So I come up with an estimated negative house edge using optimal strategy as follows:

Optimal results: -0.13978
Realistic results: 0.01192%

Am I missing anything?

If we had a Charlie strategy tailored to a single deck game with it's composition-dependent nature then perhaps the edge could be shaved a bit more. I don't know. Does anyone know where I can get software that would allow me to grind out the numbers myself to come up with a single deck charlie strategy?