Online Casinos

Is it true that the US outlawed online gambling? I play with Golden Palace before but I don't know if you can still legally gamble online in the US. Is this the right place to ask?

From what little I know of the UIGEA (Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforecement Act), its not the gambling that is the problem, but the sending and receiving of funds from online gambling sites. you can find out more at Wikipedia

Someone who knows more about it will chime in later.

It's not the fund transfers that are the problem, but the only point where the government can do anything about it.

All the online casinos are in foreign countries, outside of US jurisdiction.

The only thing the US can do about it is go after the money while it's in the US.

Thats what I was trying to say (in a far less intelligent way).

Quote: DJTeddyBear

It's not the fund transfers that are the problem, but the only point where the government can do anything about it.

All the online casinos are in foreign countries, outside of US jurisdiction.

The only thing the US can do about it is go after the money while it's in the US.

That's true federally, but several states have passed direct prohibitions against online wagering. Washington and Oregon are two of them. From what I've been able to gather, the act by a person of making a casino wager on an Internet site is still not technically a federal crime. There are other similar acts that are, like horse/sports betting ('61 Wire Act), but online casinos were not really contemplated in 1961.

So has anyone recently wagered online while in the US and have received their funds? I played at Golden Palace a few years ago and got my money. I think they have changed the laws since then.

You can usually arrange for third party transfers both into and out of online casinos. Getting your money can be a real trial, as usually you get a check after about three weeks, and that check takes some time to clear.

The real question is why you would send your money to an internet casino, when you don't even know what COUNTRY they're in, and have no recourse whatsoever if they decide to abscond with your money.

As far as the legality of it all is concerned, it's technically illegal to send money to an internet gambling site, but the third party transfer sidesteps that. As far as actual wagering, that is also technically illegal, but enforcement is virtually nonexistent.

However, asking this question at all is like trying to find out if it's illegal to hit yourself on the head with an ax. Legality is kind of beside the point.

There was a piece in a LV paper this week that said online gambling is done mostly by addicted players, when you compare it to those who only gamble @ brick & mortar casinos. I don't remember if it was an educated opinion or if there was a study performed. Regardless, the only times I play online is when I'm betting on sports. They can't change the game's outcome like they can gaff the "machines" or tables. I've never had trouble getting paid, but the check does take time to arrive and time to clear, which was mentioned above.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

It's not the fund transfers that are the problem, but the only point where the government can do anything about it.

Washington and Louisiana actually make it illegal to place a bet. Kentucky recently tried to seize gambling domain names. The real struggle is over taxation by states or taxation and federal-preemption by the Congress.
Meanwhile funds are seized and money laundering charges brought mainly because the brick casinos want that pie for themselves and the states want it taxed. Washington's attorney=general and then governor was financed by Indian tribal money so you know the law will suddenly take great interest in seeking that the Indian casinos gain and maintain a monopoly on gambling.

Quote: mkl654321

As far as the legality of it all is concerned, it's technically illegal to send money to an internet gambling site, but the third party transfer sidesteps that. As far as actual wagering, that is also technically illegal, but enforcement is virtually nonexistent.

However, asking this question at all is like trying to find out if it's illegal to hit yourself on the head with an ax. Legality is kind of beside the point.

Actually, legality is the main point. If it is illegal, then chances are they can freeze the funds or even hold you legally responsible. Asking a question like this would be more like asking if buying stolen goods is legal or not and not like the analogy you gave. If there is a law that prohibits people from hitting themselves with an ax, then someone who likes to do that suddenly should stop doing that if they have just found out that it is illegal.

Quote: focd

Actually, legality is the main point. If it is illegal, then chances are they can freeze the funds or even hold you legally responsible. Asking a question like this would be more like asking if buying stolen goods is legal or not and not like the analogy you gave. If there is a law that prohibits people from hitting themselves with an ax, then someone who likes to do that suddenly should stop doing that if they have just found out that it is illegal.

You miss the point. Even if it was perfectly legal, sending money to an anonymous, untraceable, impossible-to-locate internet casino, playing their games without ANY way of verifying that those games are legitimate, and then HOPING that you will be able to cash out any money you have left, would be an incredibly stupid thing for a person to do.

When you say "If it is illegal, then they can freeze the funds", you're incorrect. The less shady internet casinos use third-party transfer agents, sited in other countries (Canada is the home of the two biggest). If you receive funds from a payment processor in Canada, the US government can't charge you with a crime, since that payment processor is not a casino.

The point of my analogy was that the illegality of internet gambling is a trivial concern compared to the huge risk inherent in the process.

Quote: mkl654321

You miss the point. Even if it was perfectly legal, sending money to an anonymous, untraceable, impossible-to-locate internet casino, playing their games without ANY way of verifying that those games are legitimate, and then HOPING that you will be able to cash out any money you have left, would be an incredibly stupid thing for a person to do.

Stupid? On the contrary.

It's just another part of the gamble.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Stupid? On the contrary.

It's just another part of the gamble.

Well, then, you might be interested in my new Blackjack-by-Phone service. A live operator takes your credit card information, then charges the amount of your bet to your card. She then deals two cards for you and two cards for herself. You have 12, sir. The dealer shows a 9. Would you like a hit? Oooh, bad luck--a ten. Sorry, dealer wins. Would you like to play again?

You might lose, but hey, that's gambling!

Any temptation I ever had to use an online gambling site was quashed when I won $5k in 10 mins using their "free" game.

Quote: mkl654321

You miss the point. Even if it was perfectly legal, sending money to an anonymous, untraceable, impossible-to-locate internet casino, playing their games without ANY way of verifying that those games are legitimate, and then HOPING that you will be able to cash out any money you have left, would be an incredibly stupid thing for a person to do.

I agree, but that is another issue.

Quote: mkl654321

When you say "If it is illegal, then they can freeze the funds", you're incorrect. The less shady internet casinos use third-party transfer agents, sited in other countries (Canada is the home of the two biggest). If you receive funds from a payment processor in Canada, the US government can't charge you with a crime, since that payment processor is not a casino.

Freezing funds was an assumption and a reasonable one. I'm pretty sure most people would be afraid if the government froze the winnings/funds in the account. That's the whole point of asking these questions for confirmation.

Quote: mkl654321

The point of my analogy was that the illegality of internet gambling is a trivial concern compared to the huge risk inherent in the process.

Right! But you made it confusing in the previous post. Thanks for the clarification. Legality and receiving your funds are actually 2 seperate issues. What I meant to ask was that if it is illegal, would you be held liable and will your funds be frozen because it is illegal. I also meant to ask the freezing funds in 2 parts. Can the government freeze it or can the online casino take the funds themselves since the gaming money/transaction is illegal anyway. That's what I was trying to ask originally. And even if the government doesn't do anything about illegal gambling, I would not want to do anything illegal and that's why I asked because ignorance sometimes can get you into trouble if you don't know how serious something is.

Quote: focd

Freezing funds was an assumption and a reasonable one. I'm pretty sure most people would be afraid if the government froze the winnings/funds in the account. That's the whole point of asking these questions for confirmation.

Right! But you made it confusing in the previous post. Thanks for the clarification. Legality and receiving your funds are actually 2 seperate issues. What I meant to ask was that if it is illegal, would you be held liable and will your funds be frozen because it is illegal. I also meant to ask the freezing funds in 2 parts. Can the government freeze it or can the online casino take the funds themselves since the gaming money/transaction is illegal anyway. That's what I was trying to ask originally. And even if the government doesn't do anything about illegal gambling, I would not want to do anything illegal and that's why I asked because ignorance sometimes can get you into trouble if you don't know how serious something is.

"The government" could only "freeze" the funds in an account in a bank under its jurisdiction. This means that the US government could only make the money inaccessible AFTER it had arrived in a US bank account. Any federal authority would have to 1) detect that money's arrival 2) get a criminal indictment against the accountholder 3) get a court order to place a criminal lien on the account. Even for a high-profile case, that would take several days, and in any event, a lot of manpower and expense. They're just never going to do it against Joe Shlabotnik and his $1000 cashout from Palm Frond Internet Casino.

The online casino has no LEGAL basis to confiscate your funds, because wherever that casino is based, internet gambling IS legal. As in the case of the other end of the process, issues of illegality are not your primary worry here.

You definitely are breaking the law (two separate ones, actually) by gambling on the internet, but how much trouble you'll get in for doing it is the real question. Similarly to liquor laws during prohibition, or marijuana laws now, the cops aren't busting down doors to see if people are behaving. Any law that is widely disobeyed isn't enforced very strictly. That said, if you don't want to do anything illegal, that's probably wise. Especially since there are very few places in the US these days that aren't within a few hours' drive of a perfectly legal casino.