A Bunch of Craps Questions

Hi, I have a bunch of craps questions I would like to ask.

1) I feel stressed while playing craps because it goes too fast. The stickman constantly pushes the dice to you and you really don't have time to count your chips or try to do the math to make sure the odds are right. So what should be done to slow it down? It feels weird to stay you want to stop if you're the only one playing since the entire table is like looking at you. I feel like I lose control as to what I want to do in those situations. Also, if I am the shooter and I just made the point and I ask for a break, and then someone wants to bet on the field, am I obligated to make a pass line or don't pass bet and continue shooting?

2) Sometimes when I am up there are a lot of chips in front of me and it draws attention somewhat. By that I mean the chips have filled up like a row or 2 of the space in front of me. How should I protect my chips in front of me if it gets crowded as hands are moving back and forth as everyone is focusing on the dice rolls? Is it right to ask to be colored up when you have a lot of chips? I feel like it's weird to color up chips in craps because it seems to slow the game down and everyone has to wait for you because the action stops until the dealer is done. In blackjack or roulette I don't get this feeling.

3) When is a good time to color chips up and where should you put it? I don't want to put it down on the table as it might be mistaken as a bet.

4) I have never played at a really busy craps table before. So is it ok to stand directly next to someone? It would seem like hands are awfully close to other players' chips.

Thanks for helping me out with these situations. I have read books but never found answers to them. For now these are the questions I have. I think I will have more as I play more. Thanks.

1 - Ask to stop the action if you have to. But a better option is to put some chips on the line between the field and come so the dealer has to ask you your intentions. The stick will NEVER move the dice unless both dealers are finished paying and setting bets. Of course, if you do this, you have to at least put out the right amount (or rounded up) for the bets you're making.

Do NOT wait for the dealer to be finished placing everyone else's bets before you start to make the motion that you want to place a bet. Just put the chips down and the dealer will get to you in turn.


2 - Color-ups generally do NOT stop action. Typically, the chips are moved to the boxman, who may take several rolls to count out the color-up. Generally, color-ups are done when you are leaving, however, you can certainly do it when you have too many chips. In that instance, it's best to put out the exact amount you're coloring up. I.E. Put down 20 or 40 reds, if you hope to get paid in black chips. If you put down 30 reds, you're gonna get 6 greens.


3 - If you put down a large stack of chips, it will generally be assumed that it's a color-up.


4 - Yeah, it can get tight at a crowded table, but most players are used to it.

The game is fast, but you will get used to it, and once you do, it will seem to slow down for you.

A good dealer will color you up automatically. If you are starting to get a pile of reds in front of you, they will try and pay you in $25 chips and take some reds as change.

It is wise to be aware of your chips in your rack! However, I have never witnessed anyone snipe a chip from another person (other than a seriously drunk player whose buddy was taking his black chips, but even that was to just save him from blowing his whole wad at the table. I hope he planned on giving them back.) So be aware, but no need to be paranoid about it.

On a crowded table I have accidentally had my hand come down on another player's rack of chips. What I do then is same thing the dealers do. Open my hand right there and then flip it over and back over again to show the cameras that I have nothing in my hand. Then move my hand back to my chips. If anyone should happen to complain about anything, I know the tape will exonerate me from any wrongdoing.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

But a better option is to put some chips on the line between the field and come so the dealer has to ask you your intentions.

So what does putting chips between the field and come mean in terms of craps? Also, is the shooter obligated to bet on the pass line or don't pass and continue shooting if he/she is taking a break right after making the point and someone wants to join and make a field bet only?

Quote: focd

So what does putting chips between the field and come mean in terms of craps? Also, is the shooter obligated to bet on the pass line or don't pass and continue shooting if he/she is taking a break right after making the point and someone wants to join and make a field bet only?

Nobody can make you shoot, and nobody can make you make a line bet. If you've just made your point and you don't want to make another bet, you can manually pass the dice. If there's no shooter, nobody can make a field bet. The guy with the field bet will have to make a line bet and roll the dice. However, I've never seen a shooter "take a break" between points. Usually the box will instruct you to shoot or pass. Like all wagering games, the house makes its money on a small edge times a large volume of wagers. Slowing the game down decreases the volume of wagers and therefore house revenues.

Also, I like to wait until the dice are moving away from me when I color up but that's not always an option. What I usually do is count my chips first (so I know how much I should get back), then stack them in piles behind the passline and say "color". Either the stick will wait for the base dealer to move my stacks to the box, or the dice will just go and whatever happens, happens.

Quote: focd

So what does putting chips between the field and come mean in terms of craps? Also, is the shooter obligated to bet on the pass line or don't pass and continue shooting if he/she is taking a break right after making the point and someone wants to join and make a field bet only?

Another option is to lay / slide several chips, domino style, in the field and/or come area.

Since typical bets are neat stacks, such a slid stack needs to be fixed.

Unlike Roulette, there are no split bets where a player places the chips on a line. So a stack on a line is no bet, and needs to be addressed before action can continue. (FYI: There ARE some bets where the DEALER puts the chips on a line, but that's different.)

Quote: MathExtremist

Also, I like to wait until the dice are moving away from me when I color up but that's not always an option. What I usually do is count my chips first (so I know how much I should get back), then stack them in piles behind the passline and say "color". Either the stick will wait for the base dealer to move my stacks to the box, or the dice will just go and whatever happens, happens.

I just want to know what your opinion is. By "moving away", I'm guessing that you mean that after you are done shooting? Why is this more convenient? So when you say "color", doesn't the stickman have to wait until you are colored up before the dice goes? I'm confused about that part. So does that mean the dice can be in action while the dealer moves the chips to be colored up? So would it be "rude" to color chips up while the point is established or should people wait until the shooter 7s out or makes the point? Thanks.

Quote: focd

I just want to know what your opinion is. By "moving away", I'm guessing that you mean that after you are done shooting?

That, or a player or two later. The thing is, since you're usually putting in time, waiting to shoot, most players leave when there are lost more players waiting before they get to shoot again.

Quote: focd

So when you say "color", doesn't the stickman have to wait until you are colored up before the dice goes?

No.

Craps is a fast paced, action game. Nothing stops a craps table - even a chip fill.


The color-up chips should be moved to the box to avoid them being hit by thrown dice, but the color-up does not need to be counted or paid before the shooter gets the dice.

This is the key, and goes back to what I said about putting chips on a line, or spreading them domino style. As long as every chip's purpose is known, and confirmed, then they do not have to be in the proper place on the table.

I like to say this: Craps is the only game where you can throw money in the air, say something that the untrained listener will not understand, and it's a bet. (As long as the dealer repeats it back as confirmation.)

If you are shooting, you can pass the dice at ANY time, including mid-roll. It may annoy them, but you can do it.
If you are shooting, do not let the Stick rush you.

Do not put chips down on the layout anywhere without being precise. If its color you want: say so and let the dealer get to it when he can, but say color. If its a bet try to position it properly. If you are at a very fast paced game, try practicing or getting familiar with slow tables first. I've played at some very fast tables where the stick relentlessly pushes those dice out and even the base dealers may get run over a few times but the rule is to watch YOUR bets.

Chip thieves exist and "rail birds" may crowd next to you if there is really fast action. Put chips into your rail quickly. Stand directly in front of them and don't move around. Sort your chips in the rail and color up as is comfortable for you but pay attention most to your chips that are on the table. Call out to your dealer "check change" if you drop a Red and want five whites as the cocktail waitress approaches. Its up to the dealer to do it when he can and get you the chips as promptly as he can. Dealers do things in a certain order. Its not their choice. Don't let it rattle you but don't forget its your money and you should keep aware of all your bets.

You could also try Rapid Craps. No worries about chips.

I have one time had a black chip lifted out of my tray. I did not notice for a while and then, just lost my cool, shoved the rest of my chips into my pockets and left the table. In order to protect my chips, i now always cap my chips with a few $1 chips on either end, and keep my ships is a tight row so that any mishandling of them is very apparent.

1) I feel stressed while playing craps because it goes too fast. The stickman constantly pushes the dice to you and you really don't have time to count your chips or try to do the math to make sure the odds are right. So what should be done to slow it down? It feels weird to stay you want to stop if you're the only one playing since the entire table is like looking at you. I feel like I lose control as to what I want to do in those situations.

If you're shooting, you control the pace. People will act annoyed, it's understandable. As you play more, you will pick up the pacing better and react faster after each roll.

Also, if I am the shooter and I just made the point and I ask for a break, and then someone wants to bet on the field, am I obligated to make a pass line or don't pass bet and continue shooting?

If you're really stuck, you can pass the roll to the next person.


2) Sometimes when I am up there are a lot of chips in front of me and it draws attention somewhat. By that I mean the chips have filled up like a row or 2 of the space in front of me. How should I protect my chips in front of me if it gets crowded as hands are moving back and forth as everyone is focusing on the dice rolls? Is it right to ask to be colored up when you have a lot of chips? I feel like it's weird to color up chips in craps because it seems to slow the game down and everyone has to wait for you because the action stops until the dealer is done. In blackjack or roulette I don't get this feeling.

I do a couple of things. I always take a position immediately next to a dealer; presumably, then I only have one side to worry about. I always keep the higher chips next to the dealer. I always keep one hand on the other end of my stack. I never let my chips go to a 2nd row of the rack - I either color in some, or rathole (pocket) some. I'll usually tell the dealer when I'm ratholing. Some people advocate ratholing as a means of deceiving the box as to how much you've won or lost; I don't have any problem with that, but I just don't play it that way.

These things will help keep you from getting chips poached out of your rack, but players will also steal chips right off the felt, so you still have to watch out for that. One simple technique used on me was when the shooter was at my end of the table, the guy next to me was picking up my odds bets when the dice were rolled, because at that point, all eyes are on the other end of the table.


3) When is a good time to color chips up and where should you put it? I don't want to put it down on the table as it might be mistaken as a bet.

Probably the best time to do it is after a seven-out, just as your dealer is about to finish clearing the table. Just tell him you want to color in some, and put the chips on the table right up against the wall in front of you, if you're close to him, or in the Come box (make sure he heard you if you put them in the Come box, although the Come box should be safe because you can't bet the Come on a come out roll).

4) I have never played at a really busy craps table before. So is it ok to stand directly next to someone? It would seem like hands are awfully close to other players' chips.

Don't play at a crowded table if you're not comfortable; otherwise use the methods described above and by other players here. Keep in mind that you and you alone are responsible for your chips.

Quote: focd

I just want to know what your opinion is. By "moving away", I'm guessing that you mean that after you are done shooting? Why is this more convenient?

No, I mean that there are two sides of a dice table, the side I'm on and the side the other folks are on. If the shooter is on the other side, the dice are moving toward me. That means if I put my chips down, the dice might hit them and knock them over into other bets. I like to wait to color up until someone on my side of the table is shooting so the dice are moving away from me and my chips - that minimizes the chance that the dice knock over my chips.

You can ask to color up anytime, but usually the boxperson won't actually do the exchange until the current pass bet has been resolved. There is definitely action in the meanwhile - that's why I like to avoid getting in the way of the dice. And usually people color up after a 7-out, though I was playing yesterday and someone dropped $100 on the table, asked for red, put $10 on the field, won, and then immediately colored up and left. This was all in the middle of someone's hand.

I have a question as to who is responsible if the dice flies off the table? Sometimes it is in my direction but what if I do not want to get it because I want to look after my chips. Actually, what I mean is that I do want to help get it but I don't want to because I am afraid of leaving my chips unattended. I also know that usually everyone looks in your direction anyway when the dice falls off the table but sometimes depending on where the dice is, it's still possible that people aren't looking at your chips as you are going to get the dice. So should I ask the dealer to look after my chips before I go after the dice?

i dont think you ever played dice. because a player never picks up the dice.

Oh really? I am sorry as I have only played card craps in California. They allow players to pick up the dice. So they don't allow players in Nevada to retrieve the dice?

You can pick up the die, if you wish. Just hand it back to the base dealer. If you're worried about the cheques in your rack, just stand pat, someone else will retrieve it.

I haven't been to Las Vegas in 4 years or so; where I play, railbirds aren't much of a concern, and you can retrieve the die without sweating your rack.

Quote: jpprovance

i dont think you ever played dice. because a player never picks up the dice.

Really? At what casino do you play?

EVERY casino I've played at (A.C., CT, PA, Vegas), if the dice land outside the table, the dealers ask a player to pick it up.

The dealer's job is to protect their banks. The stick's job is to protect the remaining dice. They will NEVER pick the die up off the floor. If the die lands in the pit, then the pit boss will get it. Otherwise, a player is expected to get it.

If you're uncomfortable with not watching your chips, then you can ask a passer-by, or, eventually, the pit boss will come out to get it.

In fact, once you pick it up, the dealers will request that you place it in their hand. It is the ONLY time where the procedure dictates that you put something directly in the dealer's hand.

On the flip side, if the die lands in the rail, it is a no-roll, and you are requested to simply place it on the table.

The difference in procedure comes from the fact that the dealers lost sight of the die.

Quote: Calder

You can pick up the die, if you wish. Just hand it back to the base dealer.

Then why did the poster (4 posts earlier) imply that players are not supposed to pick up the dice? Just curious.

Can't help you there, you'll have to direct that to him (or her). Might be superstition, or a well-founded caution due to local railbirds.

Actually, everywhere I've been, the dealers don't want you to hand it to them, they ask you to toss it to them in the air, or onto the table. Then the box checks it.

Just curious as to where this is. Why do the answers to these questions vary so much by user? One says you can hand it to them while one says not to. Another says players never find the dice while another says players do it all the time. ???

Why? Most likely, different rules in different jurisdictions. That's why I not only specified the locations that applied to my answer, but I asked the poster what casino they were talking about. Perhaps if that poster answers that question, we could figure it out.

Quote: focd

Just curious as to where this is. Why do the answers to these questions vary so much by user? One says you can hand it to them while one says not to. Another says players never find the dice while another says players do it all the time. ???

Not to worry, next time the dice flies off the table in your direction, just don't pick them up. It's not your responsibility, someone else will get them. Let the casino take care of their dice.

Quote: cardshark

just don't pick them up. It's not your responsibility, someone else will get them. Let the casino take care of their dice.

Not if you want to roll the same pair of dice without delay of game.

Quote: Chuck

) I never let my chips go to a 2nd row of the rack - I either color in some, or rathole (pocket) some. I'll usually tell the dealer when I'm ratholing. Some people advocate ratholing as a means of deceiving the box as to how much you've won or lost; I don't have any problem with that, but I just don't play it that way.

I am just wondering if ratholing only applies to poker? I was never aware that pocketing your money was considered bad. I mean shouldn't players have the right to their privacy by not exposing their chips to the public? This includes both dealers and pit bosses as well. It's just my opinion but why would the pit boss or the dealers need to know how much you've won or lost? That's kind of like expecting the house and dealers to show how much tips they have made or how much they have won off of their players today. If they really do want to know the answer that bad, then they can go to the video.

Quote: focd

...why would the pit boss or the dealers need to know how much you've won or lost?

To aid in calulating the average bet, for the comps system.

Ratholing in poker is an entirely different animal and is against the rules.

The large chains also do yearly won/loss statements for your player account. For machines, it's no problem, they know cash in/cash out. For table games, the best way they have of estimating it for a session is comparing your buy in vs. how much you cash out when you color up.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Ratholing in poker is an entirely different animal and is against the rules.

aka: Going South'.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

To aid in calulating the average bet, for the comps system.

I'm not entirely sure how they do the avg. bet calculations. But I always thought they take into account of how much you buy in and how long you play. So shouldn't the pit boss pay more attention to how much you bet as opposed to how much chips you have? Assuming that having a lot of chips mean that you've bet big, then what if you're unlucky that day and you lost a lot. Wouldn't that mislead people to think you're not betting big? Which is why the idea of looking at how many chips you have in craps gives people an idea of how big you bet is really unclear to me.

The dealers are not going to look away from the bets and the bank. So I am not going to look away from my chips either. I watch my bets and I watch my "bank". The reason many casinos allow an errant die to be put in the dealers hand is that it will be examined prior to being returned to play. The dice do have serial numbers, you know. They want to make sure its one of the five that the table started with. You can drop it down and it will be picked up and examined. Stick examines and then box examines it.

Usually I hand nothing to a dealer... its always down on the felt. Same as I take nothing from a dealers hand ... felt or nothing!!

I rarely pick up an errant die. I may indicate where it is, but I don't pick it up. Floorman doesn't like leaving the pit to go get the die? Tough! I don't want to be involved in anything and I don't want to be distracted by anything.

If I'm shooting I try to not throw wildly. If it does turn into a "No roll, too tall" or something and the Stick asks me "Same dice?" My reply is "Your game, your dice" or "Your game, your decision" or something like that. I'm not that superstitious but even if I were, I'm not going to insist on anything and then have it discovered later that the die was switched. If I've tossed it improperly, I'll say sorry and I'll try to do better, but I'm NOT going to go get the die or make any decisions as to its continued use or express any preferences about its continued use. Long ago, I had one Box tell me three times in a row to hit the back board ... well, I finally started throwing harder. Maybe I was tired or it was a longer table or something, I don't know. If Box says No Roll, I won't quibble. If Box says "suspicious roll" I won't like that and he will indeed learn that, but I'll pass the dice if I have to. I won't have accusations. I don't accuse them of anything. I'd prefer a weak roll to one that goes overboard but I try my best to roll properly.

Its just that I don't care if a die lands right at my feet. I don't pick up someone's lost die even if the table is virtually empty and there is no one near my chips at all. Its not a players job. Some players do it, some even enjoy doing it. I don't. Floor gets annoyed? Tough! They are the employees. I'm not. Same thing with calling the dice. If I eve call the dice it will be "Here Dice. Here Dice". Someone wants to hear what it landed as... they can crane their necks and look. That is their job. I don't book bets and I don't call the dice. Dealer can bend and peer behind my bet to see how the die landed, I don't call it even if the stick asks me to.

Quote: focd

I'm not entirely sure how they do the avg. bet calculations. But I always thought they take into account of how much you buy in and how long you play. So shouldn't the pit boss pay more attention to how much you bet as opposed to how much chips you have? Assuming that having a lot of chips mean that you've bet big, then what if you're unlucky that day and you lost a lot. Wouldn't that mislead people to think you're not betting big? Which is why the idea of looking at how many chips you have in craps gives people an idea of how big you bet is really unclear to me.

Yeah, I don't really think that's how they rate you, your win or loss doesn't really tell them how much you were betting. My observation is that they just scan the table every so often and see what bets are out there - they can tell whose bets are whose.

I think they do it by seeing what table you are logged in at. If it's a low limit table you might get less. If you are in a high limit room, then they might give you more. I don't think (I might be wrong) that they actually look at your bets and try to keep track for hours. I think pit bosses are more concerned with possible misdeals or mispayouts etc...

Quote: FleaStiff

The dealers are not going to look away from the bets and the bank. So I am not going to look away from my chips either. I watch my bets and I watch my "bank".

Seriously, this baffles me as to why dealers don't go get the dice. They are covered by the boxman if they're afraid that someone will steal chips. It's unreasonable since players' chips are at risk if they are not looking after them especially at a crowded table and if the chips are in high denominations. I mean if someone steals your chips the house will never pay you back so why risk it? I mean I tried not to go after it but it seems like the whole table gives you that "look" as like why the #^@%$&#% aren't you going after it. It should be the other way around. Why isn't the $^#^$@%$5r dealer going to get it. It really doesn't make any sense. I mean as a courtesy, I would do it to help everyone, but the risk is too high. Even if you lose a green chip that is a lot of money. Even a red chip is a lot of money since you are trying to help. This doesn't make sense.
EDIT - Just to make things look even worse, the dealer didn't get it so some old lady holding a cane who had trouble bending over tried to get it. It made me look even worse. That's why I rushed to get it. Seriously, $#&^#%$^% is this?