Wynn Asked For Social # At Table
The first time, everything was great -Stayed at the Wynn. Fantastic facilities as expected. I ended up down ($) for the trip and is probably why I got another offer. This time I decided to try the Encore.
I am not a regular gambler. I do play poker near my home state, but only play casino games a few times a year and usually play a decent amount ($) when I go to Vegas (only 1-2x a year).
On this specific trip I arrived with my brother early for March Madness weekend (around 8am) and we meet up with another group of buddies who were having a bachelor party. The staff was great and helpful with early checkin. I spent most of the day between the Wynn and Encore. Bouncing around from table to slots to the sports book to watch the tourney games and gambling on them. I took advantage of the Sports Book App which required me to include my SSN# and other info. Which I am fine with as I have nothing to hide.
However, as the day progressed and I gambled more and more (and had a few too many drinks), I ended up at 3 card poker table after withdrawing some more cash from an ATM for the last time that night. At the time I was probably down somewhere between 3-5k and had been playing all day. I bought in - provided my card and the Pit Boss came over and asked for my SSN# in front of everyone. I thought it was a bit odd and I felt like I did something wrong. After failing to get any info from the boss (he would not explain exactly what it was for) I complied and he took my # and then mentioned that this would be/should be my last buy in for the night.
I was not an obnoxious drunk or anything and my sober brother was with me as well (just watching) and we could not figure it out.
I have read about various reports and how Casinos file for suspicious activity and was wondering if anyone has any insight into this? My visit was strictly for pleasure and fun and I am not laundering money or performing any criminal activities and could not wrap my head around this. It kind of put a damper on my trip and had me concerned for the next few days. I was constantly thinking I was being reporting for something as everything I read talked about criminal activities, etc. I don't want to have red flags by my name or anything like this as was just curious if others had experienced anything like this?
Would love any thoughts on this and curious if this should be a concern?
Yes they are supposed to do win loss statements on people at minimum they are supposed to get a description at around 3k.Quote: MayBayI recently took advantage of a 3 nights comp offer from the Wynn. I had stayed there before on a similar comp. To be honest I am not for sure how they got my info to begin with as I had never signed up for a Card there. But I took advantage of the offer.
The first time, everything was great -Stayed at the Wynn. Fantastic facilities as expected. I ended up down for the trip and is probably why I got another offer. This time I decided to try the Encore.
I am not a regular gambler. Only play a few times a year and usually play a decent amount when I go to Vegas (only 1-2x a year).
On this specific trip I arrived with my brother early for March Madness weekend (around 8am) and we meet up with another group of buddies who were having a bachelor party. The staff was great and helpful with early checkin. I spent most of the day between the Wynn and Encore. Bouncing around from table to slots to the sports book to watch the tourney games and gambling on them. I took advantage of the Sports Book App which required me to include my SSN# and other info. Which I am fine with as I have nothing to hide.
However, as the day progressed and I gambled more and more (and had a few too many drinks), I ended up at 3 card poker table after withdrawing some more cash from an ATM for the last time that night. At the time I was probably down somewhere between 3-5k and had been playing all day. I bought in - provided my card and the Pit Boss came over and asked for my SSN# in front of everyone. I thought it was a bit odd and I felt like I did something wrong. After failing to get any info from the boss (he would not explain exactly what it was for) I complied and he took my # and then mentioned that this would be/should be my last buy in for the night.
I was not an obnoxious drunk or anything and my sober brother was with me as well (just watching) and we could not figure it out.
I have read about various reports and how Casinos file for suspicious activity and was wondering if anyone has any insight into this? My visit was strictly for pleasure and fun and I am not laundering money or performing any criminal activities and could not wrap my head around this. It kind of put a damper on my trip and had me concerned for the next few days. I was constantly thinking I was being reporting for something as everything I read talked about criminal activities, etc. I don't want to have red flags by my name or anything like this as was just curious if others had experienced anything like this?
Would love any thoughts on this and curious if this should be a concern?
The SS # isn't that odd.
I'm very very VERY surprised they cut you off from gambling. Usually the bring more drinks and offer you a line of credit.
Something caught their eye because your the first non AP person I know of that's been backed off while losing.
I guess its possible they had a concerned and responsible pit boss who realized you had been there all day drinking to much and losing. I'm sure it was more so to cover their own ass.
Quote: DrawingDeadIf they had your player card, they already had your SSN.
They don't take your ssn for a players card at The Wynn, or anywhere else that I've ever gotten a card.
The OP probably hit $10k in buy-ins over multiple transactions and triggered a form 8300.
Why do people think they have your SS# just because you have a players card? The would lose many opportunities to get people to sign up. Some states (CA)verify your SS number when you hit a jackpot.Quote: MoscaThey don't take your ssn for a players card at The Wynn, or anywhere else that I've ever gotten a card.
The OP probably hit $10k in buy-ins over multiple transactions and triggered a form 8300.
If you hit a jackpot of $1200+ or get a 1099 they will oftentimes save that information and add your SS # with your players card information. Or if they ask you during some other transaction, it doesn't have to to be 10k. I have been asked to provide it for 1 $2500 transaction. That's rare but it does happen. Depending on the location cash deposited front money is reported for $2500 or more.
Cantor makes you give your SS # and you have to fill out a detailed form when you get a sports account for any amount.
PS. There is a detailed post somewhere that covers what procedures the casinos are supposed to follow dealing with transactions.
That's interesting. I've had "signer" paperwork requiring SSN for a payout that was generated & filled out by the casino ready for my signature after presenting nothing but my player card, and the sole new card that I've gotten (Westgate) did take SSN. But most of my cards (including Wynn) have been established for a long time so I really don't know how many of the 22 cards did that. Since I know some do have the SSN as part of the player account, I thought it must be standard.Quote: MoscaThey don't take your ssn for a players card at The Wynn, or anywhere else that I've ever gotten a card.
The OP probably hit $10k in buy-ins over multiple transactions and triggered a form 8300.
This is almost certainly it. The fact that the OP used the card throughout the day allowed the casino to track a possible structuring attempt and file the paperwork. Politically, this is a big deal right now: one of the NGC commissioners just resigned over allegations of lax anti-money-laundering policies at the Sparks Nugget, and Caesars Corp was fined 1.5M last fall for similar policy failings.Quote: MoscaThe OP probably hit $10k in buy-ins over multiple transactions and triggered a form 8300.
+1Quote: AyecarumbaIf it was simply a 10k threshold filing, why the non-explanation? Why the back-off? It doesn't seem like the whole story.
OP had been drinking and had probably exceeded / was about to exceed the $10k+ threshold for a CTR. As far as I know, I don't think they're supposed to tell you why they need your SSN. When I took a Title 31 test, it said something along the lines of not telling patrons anything about SAR/CTRs, and if they ask (detailed) questions not to answer them. If I had to guess, OP was possibly drunk and getting mad at the boss about the SSN thing, which is why (being drunk) boss told him he probably shouldn't be playing too much longer (should be the last buy in).
Quote: RSThe way I read it....
OP had been drinking and had probably exceeded / was about to exceed the $10k+ threshold for a CTR. As far as I know, I don't think they're supposed to tell you why they need your SSN. When I took a Title 31 test, it said something along the lines of not telling patrons anything about SAR/CTRs, and if they ask (detailed) questions not to answer them. If I had to guess, OP was possibly drunk and getting mad at the boss about the SSN thing, which is why (being drunk) boss told him he probably shouldn't be playing too much longer (should be the last buy in).
There is no law against telling someone why you need the ssn, but there is a law against structuring, and you are advised to not answer questions so that you do not aid in structuring.
Quote: MoscaThere is no law against telling someone why you need the ssn, but there is a law against structuring, and you are advised to not answer questions so that you do not aid in structuring.
Very true, being in the auto industry if the final price of a pre-owned car was say $10,000 and they wanted to pay cash for the entire thing, I can't tell them just finance something, it will save you a bunch of paperwork
Quote: Gabes22Very true, being in the auto industry if the final price of a pre-owned car was say $10,000 and they wanted to pay cash for the entire thing, I can't tell them just finance something, it will save you a bunch of paperwork
Yep, car guy here too. 30 years in F&I.
Quote:After failing to get any info from the boss (he would not explain exactly what it was for) I complied and he took my # and then mentioned that this would be/should be my last buy in for the night.
It's seems the OP is telling the pit critter that the OP won't be buying in any more. Not the pit critter the saying the OP can't buy in anymore.
Is the 10k reporting a big deal or something to be concerned about from a recreational gamblers perspective?
Quote: MayBayThe Pit Boss mentioned to me that this should be/would be my last buy in. When discussing the story with my sober brother the next day he mentioned that I was not out of line during the discussions, but I did ask several times about the SSN question. At which the pit boss kept explaining not to worry about it, its just a procedure.
Is the 10k reporting a big deal or something to be concerned about from a recreational gamblers perspective?
The 10K thing is a federal law. By law, companies have to report cash transactions of over $10,000
Quote: MayBayThe Pit Boss mentioned to me that this should be/would be my last buy in. When discussing the story with my sober brother the next day he mentioned that I was not out of line during the discussions, but I did ask several times about the SSN question. At which the pit boss kept explaining not to worry about it, its just a procedure.
Is the 10k reporting a big deal or something to be concerned about from a recreational gamblers perspective?
Not really IMO. The IRS gets hundreds of thousands of form 8300s. They only consult them if there is a pattern of crime, or if one is checked as a suspicious transaction by a filer, which almost never happens.
I once checked one as suspicious because it was mixed twenties and hundreds, was in a brown paper bag, and smelled like weed. But I didn't actually do it for those reasons, I did it for those reasons AND because the guy was a real asshole and treated everyone including his girlfriend like dirt. So it takes a lot for that to happen.
I have had three deals audited after an 8300 was filed. In one case the guy was embezzling from his company, in a second the woman worked the scales at a scrapyard and was shorting them and keeping the difference, in the third it actually was a drug dealer, but it wasn't the one I checked as suspicious. So even checking the suspicious transaction box doesn't necessarily trigger an investigation.
As a follow up, I reported a somewhat similar issue here a couple years ago. Mine happened at the cage at the end of my visit. I was asked to fill out paperwork, asked about it at the time and was basically just told you have to do this. The consensus of opinion here was that they needed the info for a SAR and/or CTR. But I've never been asked to do it again, and the $$ involved have been triple the amounts several times since then, always at the same establishment. Does that mean that I should assume there have been multiple reports filed about me, just using the info I provided that first time? I did have to sign the paperwork. Just wondering....Quote: Gabes22The 10K thing is a federal law. By law, companies have to report cash transactions of over $10,000
Quote: Gabes22The 10K thing is a federal law. By law, companies have to report cash transactions of over $10,000
I see. I know for a fact I did not spend or buy in with 10k of my own money there. I am not sure how they get their totals, but I guess it may be possible that I bought in for that amount total throughout the day. But I did not spend 10k of my money.
Perhaps I was getting close and they cut me off as a kind nod?
The other thing that confused me a little is that I got most of my cash though an ATM and had to sign at the cage. I thought they would know where the money is coming from. Its not like I had rolls and rolls of hundreds on me at the time.
It's one of those situations where the instructions on how to fill out a one page form are four pages long. But the penalty for missing a form are draconian: aggregate annual limit for businesses with gross receipts over $5M (i.e., casinos) is $3M. Intentional failure to file is minimum $25000, up to $100000, per occurrence.
Quote: TwoFeathersATLAs a follow up, I reported a somewhat similar issue here a couple years ago. Mine happened at the cage at the end of my visit. I was asked to fill out paperwork, asked about it at the time and was basically just told you have to do this. The consensus of opinion here was that they needed the info for a SAR and/or CTR. But I've never been asked to do it again, and the $$ involved have been triple the amounts several times since then, always at the same establishment. Does that mean that I should assume there have been multiple reports filed about me, just using the info I provided that first time? I did have to sign the paperwork. Just wondering....
The filing establishment has to notify you that an 8300 was filed, before the end of January in the following year (same as a W-2 or 1099). This gets missed a lot, just because you didn't get one doesn't mean it wasn't filed, but I wouldn't sweat it.
If there are eight form 8300s on you from 2014 and you reported income of $22k before deductions, you might get looked at. But even then, it's a numbers game. There are only so many IRS investigators, and they try to maximize their value, starting with millions and working their way down through hundreds of thousands into tens of thousands, before the next wave of returns hit and they start all over again.
Quote: ahiromuI would have been very angry that the pit didn't thoroughly explain the situation to you. If they need to do it, that's fine, but I'm not giving my SSN to someone without a thorough explanation.
And at the same time, I am not giving it out at a blackjack table in a casino. While the PB might be professional and know how to handle it you are within earshot of potentially 6 other people plus the dealer, there is an eye in the sky that can read the date on a quarter, and I don't know who has access to all that video
When selling a car and filling out the credit application, I make every one of my customers fill out their own SSN as I don't want other people inside the dealership hearing that number whatsoever.
You might have to reconsider, at least for a moment, if you are trying to cash in 8-10K at the cage and they say 'you have to fill this out first'. I almost told them to blow me, then reconsidered.....Quote: ahiromuI would have been very angry that the pit didn't thoroughly explain the situation to you. If they need to do it, that's fine, but I'm not giving my SSN to someone without a thorough explanation.
Added : this was at a Tribal joint and I've heard they put rattlesnake venom on the tips their arrows....;-)
Yeah, I would have responded the following:Quote: IbeatyouracesNever give your SSN to pit personnel UNLESS you're filling out tax forms.
1) Why do you need my SSN? ...If he says don't worry about it then I would be like "then don't worry about it."
2) I'm not saying my SSN at the table in front of everyone.
3) No.
Even if it was triggering a CTR you're still not REQUIRED to give them your SSN. They need to ask for their paperwork but if you refuse then they're trained to take the best physical description of you, and any other information they have, but that's it. If buy in for $1k and win $10k, when you go to cash out $11k they can't say no to your cash out because you refuse to give them your SSN. Bob N. talked about that on the radio show... Though a lot of casinos try to hold your chips hostage in exchange for whatever they want (which they can't do). If they try to do that, let's call gaming and see what they have to say. If somehow they still refuse, let's call Bob and see what he has to say.
I tend to be a worrier and the whole SARC thing scares me a little. Again, I have nothing to hide and am far from a money launderer, the whole thing just worries me. The last thing I want is an audit come tax time and have to worry about all the paperwork involved with that.
Any info on the whole SARC stuff would be much appreciated.
