Slot Phone App - Cheating?

Quote:

Cheating in casinos refers to actions by the player or the house which are prohibited by regional gambling control authorities. This may involve using suspect apparatus, interfering with apparatus, chip fraud or misrepresenting games. The formally prescribed sanctions for cheating depend on the circumstances and gravity of the cheating and the jurisdiction in which the casino operates. In Nevada, for a player to cheat in a casino is a felony under Nevada law. In most other jurisdictions, specific statutes do not exist, and alleged instances of cheating are resolved by the gambling authority who may have more or less authority to enforce its verdict.

Quote: sabre

Sounds to me like cheating, you dirty filthy cheater. God I hate cheaters. You cheater.

Also, which casino has wifi slots that you can play from your phone? Or are you using Bluetooth? Or IR? I guess I'm confused at what protocol allows you to remotely play slots machines in your local casino. You know, since you're using a "phone utility app" to "play the slots.".

Quote: raiden

Hi all, first post here and I want to make sure my post stays within the guidelines of the forum rules, but my post doesn't fall in line, someone please let me know.

Basically it boils down to a question regarding using a phone utility app to play the slots. Is this considered to be a cheating device, although it does not interfere with the actual slot machine itself?

I was worried about this because you just never know these days, and according to Wikipedia on slot cheating, it states in a section this:

Quote:

Cheating in casinos refers to actions by the player or the house which are prohibited by regional gambling control authorities. This may involve using suspect apparatus, interfering with apparatus, chip fraud or misrepresenting games. The formally prescribed sanctions for cheating depend on the circumstances and gravity of the cheating and the jurisdiction in which the casino operates. In Nevada, for a player to cheat in a casino is a felony under Nevada law. In most other jurisdictions, specific statutes do not exist, and alleged instances of cheating are resolved by the gambling authority who may have more or less authority to enforce its verdict.

Note the part in bold, that is why I'm not sure. My thoughts are if I am using an app on my phone, that does not interfere with the slot machine and how it works in any way, then it is not cheating, and therefore would be allowed.

To me its no different then folks I see rubbing the sides of the machine as the reels are spinning :) but I'd love to get your insight to this. Also, to note, I am playing slots at several different Indian casino locations.

Thanks

Quote: raiden

@sabre, whoa there, take a deep breathe, slow down and read my post again. I am asking the question, this does imply that I am doing anything. Just so I am clear with you, I am not a cheater, I've been playing since 2009 fair and square, and won plenty of jackpots fairly, as well as donated my fair share back to the casino.

If you notice what I said, the phone app I am describing would not interfere with the slot machine in any way, no wifi connection, no bluetooth. Maybe I should have explained that a little better, think of it simply as a utility that simply uses the vibrate function on your phone to distract your spin pattern. Thats it, same thing as counting in your head, then spinning, or as I stated in my initial post, rubbing the sides of the machine (although I don't do that :) ), then spinning.

No trickery here, my concern was if I had something like this on my phone and was playing the slot machine, would it be illegal? I can't seem to find any rules on this particular instance.

Thanks

Quote:

1. To cause someone to become addicted

Quote: raiden

Maybe I should have explained that a little better, think of it simply as a utility that simply uses the vibrate function on your phone to distract your spin pattern.s

Quote: Kentry

which if not illegal is morally wrong.

Quote: raiden

I would also like to state (for the record) there is a method to my madness of thinking of this idea for an app.

Consider this, the casino is a great place for entertainment. The games, bright lights, sounds, hotels, good food and drinks, etc. But honestly do any of you guys and gals believe the board of directors for some of the largest casinos are sitting up in the Monday morning conference room meeting discussing gambling addiction?

We all know its real, heck you can youtube video after video of all kinds of gambling horror stories. Look at Wiktionary's #1. definition of "addict":


To me, the "someone" in that definition is the casino. Yes they are a great source of entertainment, and I will randomly continue to go for that reason, but also, yes, they do in fact employ tactics that can lead good people to ruins.

I had a discussion about these with a buddy of my mine as we played slots today, you may already be aware, but if you don't consider this. Have you ever been inside a casino that had windows around the exterior walls? What about all those friendly perks, free drinks, etc. Not to mention, you can google for yourself, slot machines are manufactured in a way to create a psychological affect on the player. Its not magic, its real, and its not a good feeling when you've lost control, and ended up leaving the casino, broke feeling like you just got ripped off.

Everyone enjoys winning, heck thats why we play, but the fact of the matter is, the casino has control of its business, so in essence, when we enter the doors of the casino, they have control of our money.

So, I said all that to say this :) (I like to chat if you have't noticed, lol), I'm on a mission, and that mission is to do everything in my power to break the "magic of the machine" and it's ability to control the player. Has anyone heard the term, "chasing a loss", or maybe "I can't lose", I've said those things when I had no control of my play anymore. I've been in situations where I was so frustrated, and I'd play a little more, only to just get more frustrated. I know at some point most slot players have had this same feeling.

I attribute the control the slot machine has over players by the way we play. Some folks may have there own style of play, but from what I have seen, slot reels spin about 3 seconds, and immediately when they stop, the player spins again. This pattern repeats over and over, but the key to all this is, typically the player is "zoned" in on the machine itself, rarely do they stop play, look off to the sides, chat with a friend, its again what I call the "slot zone".

My mission is to teach players to break out of that zone, create some gap and distractions between spins, thats what my idea of this app would be, and thats it. I don't like that feeling of having 0 control when playing, but lets face it, we are human beings, and sadly the casino understands this completely.

I hope to not have upset anyone, I'm a player just like everybody here, @sabre, I'm really sorry if I misguided you, that was not my intention.

I hope to here your thoughts and comments.

Thanks

raiden

Quote: raiden

@Joeman THANK YOU! You are stating exactly what my intentions are. Your right, the app just sits on your phone, runs while you play, and does not affect the machine in any way. The entire idea is simply an attempt to create a distraction between game play, in hopes of someone during that "slot zone" moment realizes they are in trouble, and needs to stop.

Just think of it like bringing a non-gambler friend with you to tag along, on your next trip to the casino, and if they see you win, they tell you about things you can do with the winnings, or quit while your ahead. That truly is my goal.

Quote: AxelWolf

Supposedly even if you use your phone to look up a video poker hand it's illegal.

Quote: NRS 465.075

  Use or possession of device, software or hardware to obtain advantage at playing game prohibited.  It is unlawful for any person to use, possess with the intent to use or assist another person in using or possessing with the intent to use any computerized, electronic, electrical or mechanical device, or any software or hardware, or any combination thereof, which is designed, constructed, altered or programmed to obtain an advantage at playing any game in a licensed gaming establishment or any game that is offered by a licensee or affiliate, including, without limitation, a device that:
1.  Projects the outcome of the game;
2.  Keeps track of cards played or cards prepared for play in the game;
3.  Analyzes the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game; or
4.  Analyzes the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game,
except as may be made available as part of an approved game or otherwise permitted by the Commission.

Quote:

You want to make an app that buzzes while you're playing slots, to get you out of the zone so you stop after a while?

That's already on your phone. It's called a timer:

Hi MathExtremist, yup, thats part of what I was thinking, but a simple timer is a bit different than my idea. This has no affect during game play, it only distracts you when the time has ran out. Shooting random intervals of phone vibrations while your spinning, seems like it would be more effective. Plus, I'd also consider having a slot to enter an amount to cash out, and then allowing the user to enter their winnings, and present some cycle of phone vibrations and maybe a screen to display to the player when they have hit their winning goal.

Just like the video you linked, a timer, a friend to offer advice, or even this idea for a phone app, makes gambling more fun when it's played responsibly.

Thanks

Quote: MathExtremist

That'd be a very interesting test case. Here's what NRS says:


I haven't reviewed the legislative history, but my understanding of the context is that this is meant to make illegal devices for wheel-clocking and card counting. You're allowed to use your brain to clock a roulette wheel or count down a blackjack shoe, but you can't use a computer to do it. But I don't think the intent of that law was to cover an electronically-stored strategy card and that's basically what a VP hand analyzer is. (I don't think the law would distinguish between a VP hand analyzer that simply used a big lookup table vs. one that ran a real-time analysis.)

Anyone know if someone using a VP hand analyzer has ever been charged under this statute? Or alternately, whether someone using a VP hand analyzer was detained but *not* charged?

Quote: tringlomane

To my knowledge no one has been charged or detained for looking up vp hands on their phone so far, even though that's technically illegal. It would rarely be worth prosecution.

Quote: MathExtremist

I agree, but the point is you have nothing to worry about from a legality standpoint. Nobody's going to arrest anyone for using a responsible-gaming app. Not only does it not violate any regs I know of, the negative press would be terrible. I haven't checked the app stores but I'd be surprised if something like this weren't out there already.

Quote: DrawingDead

Quote: AxelWolf

Supposedly even if you use your phone to look up a video poker hand it's illegal.

Quote: TomG

It is illegal to use any device to gain an advantage. If I look up strategy I am not gaining an advantage, I am merely achieving the predetermined return.

We could even argue that the casino apps gives you an advantage because you get $5 for downloading it, so it must be illegal to have on your phone in any casino.

Quote:

We could even argue that the casino apps gives you an advantage because you get $5 for downloading it, so it must be illegal to have on your phone in any casino.