Pai gow question

Was playing in Reno and had a situation come up that everyone had a different answer to. Player A was the Banker, player B was betting $25 on his betting circle and $5 in the fortune bonus circle and $25 off of his betting circle for the dealer. The question is: Who pays the dealer wager. Some thought the Banker was responsible. The first floor person made a ruling the house was responsible for it. And then later another floor said that when another player is banking you can only wager on the bonus bet for the dealer as the house is responsible for that bet. I couldn't find this question anywhere else and since four different possibilities were presented they all seemed reasonable. It's not technically part of Players B wager as the house doesn't collect a vig on a bet for the dealer. I couldn't remember for the life of me how I've seen this handled before. But the final word after three dealers, two floorpeople, a pitboss, a call to surveillance and to the shift manager all had input was that betting for the dealers along with your main bet is not allowed only betting on the bonus when another player is banking is allowed. What do you think and is this correct?

Side bets are just that. Side bets. They are not part of the option or responsibilities of the player banker.

Toke bets are just a portion of your own regular bet where you're designating who collects it when YOU win. As such, it is part of the player banker's responsibility. IE. The banker takes it if you lose, or he pays it, and you give it to the dealer, if you win.

Since it's the house that collects the vig, and they normally don't collect it for toke bets, they shouldn't collect it in this case either.

I'm confused. Was that one of the options?

Sounds like a nice little AP for the banker. You win, "Hey, that dealer bet is mine". You lose, "I'm not responsible for the dealer wager, right?".

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Side bets are just that. Side bets. They are not part of the option or responsibilities of the player banker.

Toke bets are just a portion of your own regular bet where you're designating who collects it when YOU win. As such, it is part of the player banker's responsibility. IE. The banker takes it if you lose, or he pays it, and you give it to the dealer, if you win.

Since it's the house that collects the vig, and they normally don't collect it for toke bets, they shouldn't collect it in this case either.

I'm confused. Was that one of the options?

Agreed, but I can understand the idea behind not allowing toke bets when someone is banking.

Quote: ahiromu

I can understand the idea behind not allowing toke bets when someone is banking.

You can? I can't.

Regardless of who is banking, the dealer is still dealing and resolving all bets. Not to turn this into a tipping debate, but if you're gonna tip, there should be no restrictions such as this. Like I said, a toke bet is your money, on top of your own bet, where you are designating who gets it if it wins. It would be no different than merely making the bet and tipping after the resolution of a winning hand.

This is something that I think you'll find many casinos go back and forth on, simply because it doesn't come up enough to try to nail down.

I have heard of casinos forbidding main wager tokes during a player-banker hand similar to forbidding match plays during a player-banker hand. I think that's very unfortunate that a casino would do that.

The most intelligent way, in my opinion, is to say the player-banker is responsible for all main bet wagers, and that includes tokes. Having the house pay the tokes opens the door to a slick trick. Player A and B are friends, and the only ones at the table. Player A wants to tip the dealer. Instead of handing the dealer $25, he hands the $25 to Player B and says "Toke bet this on your hand." Player A now puts out a min bet and banks against Player B, and purposely sets his hand poorly (not mis-set because that would be corrected, but playing AAKK732 as AK/AK732, for example) to try and lose to player B, knowing that the $25 toke is now going to be paid by the house, doubling the tip for the dealer.