Can I Make A Living Thru Gambling?
Quote: rxwineif someone said they make a six figure salary, I assume they make at least $100k
... so, $100,000.01, or more.
Quote: Dieter... so, $100,000.01, or more.
You're saying it has more figures, right? So, it has 8. But saying I make an 8 figure salary would certainly confuse someone, by including cents.
At any rate, if $1000.00 is a six figure salary, I've been doing a lot better than I thought.
Quote: rxwineYou're saying it has more figures, right?
No. I am saying $100k is "six figures", so if someone is making "over six figures", it is any amount greater than $100k.
So far as I know, the cent is the smallest convenient denomination in that currency... $100,000.01 is greater than "six figures", as is any greater amount.
Sure, $1m is "over six figures" too, but you don't need to increase by an order of magnitude just to qualify.
I recognize that some people will say that $500k (or thereabouts) is still "six figures", but that's not the common usage as I understand it within the circle of people I know.
Sure, because otherwise when your bank paid the fractional cents on interest and you ended up with $12.0625, that'd be "six figures."Quote: rxwineFurthermore, if someone said they make a six figure salary, I assume they make at least $100k not $10,000.01. More evidence, I believe.
edit
1,000.00
eh,
and again.
1000.01
I give up.
But back to the point, I'm reading a lot in this thread about working for hours on end at AP to make the equivalent of minimum wage. I don't really understand this, especially in the context of how everyone seems to have significant intelligence, persistence, attention-to-detail, etc. Those are all very valuable traits even for a part-time worker, and someone with that level of ambition should have no problem earning $50/hour+ as a part-time consultant doing any number of things. Tech consulting immediately comes to mind but there are lots of ways to freelance, make decent money, and not have to put up with a boss telling you to work on stuff you don't want to. And there's nothing wrong with that, being a freelancer is a great way to make a living. I've been freelancing for over 15 years -- I pick my clients and what I want to work on, and I get to say "no thanks, but here's a referral to someone else who can help you out" when I don't want a particular project. Point is, you could be freelancing for three hours a day, make the same $200 that you make daily doing slot vulturing (but with zero risk of loss), and then do whatever you want for the rest of the day. Time is money, right? If you can make $200 in three or four hours vs. 10 or 20 hours, why would you spend the extra time to make the same money? That's like taking a limo from the Palazzo to the Venetian. You can, but it's not the most efficient or cost-effective way to get there.
I would probably enjoy video machines rather than blackjack without human interaction.
I assume both of them are gamblers since they are on here. So one must ask why do they gamble? Since they don't seem to see what anyone could get out of AP'ing, I assume they gamble for the entertainment value. IF they get lucky and win, they get a sense of elation and then go home to their (mundane for us AP's) jobs which they so appreciate.
But an AP doesn't gamble unless he has an edge that will (at least in the long run) make him a profit. We don't get elation out of getting lucky, we get elation out of winning through our own brainpower, sheer guts and determination.
Can we do more rewarding, risk free jobs? Well, few jobs are truly risk-free (ask people who have lost their pensions after working for a corporation for twenty-five years and got laid off) and few people share the same interests for me to say what is rewarding to some is for all.
I feel very rewarded when I win. When I watch the Ploppies attempt to win and usually don't, chucking their inevitable losses up to the cost of having a good time (which sounds like who Mr. V and Mathextremist are because if they seek and use any +EV situations then they are really just closet AP's). I feel very rewarded when I can do what I enjoy (gambling) and which Mr. V enjoys (gambling) and I get to make a living off it and do it as often as I wish.
I happen to love Disney World. If there was some way I could AP the damn park I would. And if someone criticized me for riding Space Mountain every day I would look at them like they were crazy. There I would be having a good time, watching all the tourists having a good time and living off it.
I can't AP Disney World (I should look into it though) but I can AP the casinos. And I enjoy it.
BTW, I make a lot more than $100 bucks an hour and I usually only work for 2 hours a day. There are long days that go for ten hours but they are far and few between and I plan ahead when I am in need of putting in that much work. I wouldn't trade that for a repetitive 9-5!
He likes to gamble and is keenly interested in all things related to it, and he seeks out AP opportunities when he can find them, but in-casino gambling / AP is not how he pays for his home, food, family and daily expenses.
The leader of the pack follows a different path.
Quote: MathExtremistTime is money, right? If you can make $200 in three or four hours vs. 10 or 20 hours, why would you spend the extra time to make the same money? That's like taking a limo from the Palazzo to the Venetian. You can, but it's not the most efficient or cost-effective way to get there.
Maybe you're still wasting your time. I know I am.
Quote: Exoter175Quote: DieterOh, I absolutely know that. And to a degree, I'm very guilty at "intimidation" in some cases. As it is, I've got just enough "guys" under my "command" that I can hold down our metro area fairly well, while myself and another, sometimes two, can go to another metro area and hold it down for a weekend.
I won't necessarily get into the financial structure of all of it, but everyone gets paid pretty well :D
This is rich. The VUX MOB.
Quote: MrVTo help put this "professional gamber" thing into context: the Wiz is not a professional gambler.
He likes to gamble and is keenly interested in all things related to it, and he seeks out AP opportunities when he can find them, but in-casino gambling / AP is not how he pays for his home, food, family and daily expenses.
The leader of the pack follows a different path.
And that's fine. That's his choice.
I am quite certain if the Wiz chose to live professionally off AP opportunities he could, notwithstanding heat from being so recognizable.
Quote: darkozWhat Mathextremist and Mr. V seem to overlook is the sense of elation an AP gets when he 'beats' the casino.
There is no sense of elation at all, believe
me. There is a sense of relief at not getting
caught beating the casino at it's own game.
The two emotions are not even remotely
connected, which leads me to believe you
have no idea what you're talking about.
Quote: EvenBobThere is no sense of elation at all, believe
me. There is a sense of relief at not getting
caught beating the casino at it's own game.
The two emotions are not even remotely
connected, which leads me to believe you
have no idea what you're talking about.
lol!
Quote: EvenBobThere is no sense of elation at all, believe
me. There is a sense of relief at not getting
caught beating the casino at it's own game.
The two emotions are not even remotely
connected, which leads me to believe you
have no idea what you're talking about.
If you don't think Darkoz has any idea what he is talking about, then I must seriously call into question your ability to recognize it when someone knows 100% OF WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT!
I'd really hate for my last two most recent posts to both essentially be counter-arguments against you, but I guess that's what happened.
Further, I would also point out that I am elated when I discover a new play or when an existing play goes really well, even with simple plays. If I vulture Ultimate X and win $100 or more, I'm elated because I won $100 or more dollars for the work of a few minutes, (if you count checking all the games and the plays that did not win $100) I'm not first and foremost relieved because I didn't get tossed for vulturing. I don't expect to get tossed for vulturing at this particular casino, so that's not really on my mind.
If you are making over six figures you are making > 999,999.99
If you are making under six figures you are making < 100,000.00
Pretty straight forward really.
Quote: MathExtremistSure, because otherwise when your bank paid the fractional cents on interest and you ended up with $12.0625, that'd be "six figures."
But back to the point, I'm reading a lot in this thread about working for hours on end at AP to make the equivalent of minimum wage. I don't really understand this, especially in the context of how everyone seems to have significant intelligence, persistence, attention-to-detail, etc. Those are all very valuable traits even for a part-time worker, and someone with that level of ambition should have no problem earning $50/hour+ as a part-time consultant doing any number of things. Tech consulting immediately comes to mind but there are lots of ways to freelance, make decent money, and not have to put up with a boss telling you to work on stuff you don't want to. And there's nothing wrong with that, being a freelancer is a great way to make a living. I've been freelancing for over 15 years -- I pick my clients and what I want to work on, and I get to say "no thanks, but here's a referral to someone else who can help you out" when I don't want a particular project. Point is, you could be freelancing for three hours a day, make the same $200 that you make daily doing slot vulturing (but with zero risk of loss), and then do whatever you want for the rest of the day. Time is money, right? If you can make $200 in three or four hours vs. 10 or 20 hours, why would you spend the extra time to make the same money? That's like taking a limo from the Palazzo to the Venetian. You can, but it's not the most efficient or cost-effective way to get there.
It depends on the quality of the money and the enjoyment of making that money. I enjoy my job working for a very large IT company. I work from home most of the time and make (just) six figures. I have had the chance to both work for other companies full time which would provide more fulfillment but less money and would require me to commute or move closer to their physical office. I have also the chance to freelance for about 60% more of my salary but have decided against that as well because I wouldn't be able to be working from home and would need to move again and upheave my family life. Therefore I sacrifice my salary for the quality of my job. It's been fine.
Despite intelligence, you still have to have the market to work. That is, you have to live close to your work or be willing to commute. There are people with plenty of intelligence who want to live in a rural community or have family ties that keep them in an undesirable working market.
And freelancing also takes a skillset too - the ability to self-market, to be very responsible and available, and to be professional. Despite intelligence, social skills can be lacking and setting one's own hours are critical.
As for opportunity cost, you will work the number of hours required to make ends meet no matter the rate of pay.
Quote: Exoter175
If I can influence the dice by my throw and set, in such a way that I extend my probably of rolling a 7 to 1:7.
You can't. And I'm willing to bet you that you cant. Are you interested in such a bet?
Anyway, interested or not, welcome to the forum. Your posts are well written, well thought out and very interesting to parse through. You may not want to go into such details on a public forum, but if you are willing to divulge... how much do you amke in an average year on your various techniques..
for example... 10k on +EV VP, 20k VUX, 40k BJ, 15k mailers... 1k DI!!
By the way, if you really can lower your 7 roll to once per 7 rolls I will be able to show you how you can easily beat the house with little risk of ruin.
Pretty pricey to fund these out of pocket.
Hopefully your spouse / partner has a job with those benefits available to you, otherwise you're paying a lot out of pocket, or (more likely) you're unable to cover the cost of health insurance for yourself and to set aside funds for your retirement and thereby living dangerously and very foolishly (no personal insult intended).
I suppose the life of a professional gambler is best suited for single people without dependents: most will probably fail, and when the implosion comes they won't take their loved ones down with them.
Quote: MrVAh, but what about health insurance and a retirement plan?
Pretty pricey to fund these out of pocket.
Hopefully your spouse / partner has a job with those benefits available to you, otherwise you're paying a lot out of pocket, or (more likely) you're unable to cover the cost of health insurance for yourself and to set aside funds for your retirement and thereby living dangerously and very foolishly (no personal insult intended).
I suppose the life of a professional gambler is best suited for single people without dependents: most will probably fail, and when the implosion comes they won't take their loved ones down with them.
Hmm, that's funny, Mr. V because I worked for nine years for a small motion picture company (I have a BFA in film and this was a small subset of the technical world of laboratory work). Said company had under five employees and I loved working there.
Guess what? Under five employees and the law (at least in the nineties) says you don't need to supply health and pension for the workers. My boss chose to save the money in his pocket. Should I have felt endangered like you say AP's do and quit the work I enjoyed and went to school for so I could get a corporate job with some benefits? You couldn't have talked me into that back then anymore than you can now.
BTW - this job was motion picture negative cutting. We physically cut the motion picture film and cement spliced the relevant scenes together so it could be run through lab equipment (without the splices opening very critical) for the creation of theatrical screening prints.
EVERY motion picture since the beginning of the art form has had a negative that was cut in some fashion. Ninety nine percent by a negative cutter. When I was in film school it was considered the "Safest" career path from longevity aspect because no film could be completed without it.
Today, I couldn't pay someone to let me cut their negative. Most films aren't even shot on negative anymore. They certainly aren't cut! They are digitially scanned and the computer does it all.
I remember picking negative cutting as a career choice for the enjoyment it brought me and the security in knowing I would have a job the rest of my life. Didn't win that one, lol!!!!
Safety in job security! Never a guarantee.
My point is that a professional gambler has to factor it into the mix when determining whether to embark on the 'gamblin' man' path.
The probelm with owning a business. Everyone is against you. Employees stealing and betraying for trivial reasons. Ac plumbing and Service companies stealing on both sides. City people politics and bullying. Customers trying to sue or get free stuff. Business accountants and insurance companies overcharging. Restaurant has one of the highest fail rates. Look at how many restaurants stay after ten years, Especially independent. Id be an employee, Doing technical work or driving.
I always get asked if im making alot of money doing restaurant. They want to franchise. No one believes me when i say that we have been break even at best. Yet we have had the restaurant for over 50 years. Like a sick joke. Our accountant got quiet before he said we have been "hovering" around break even
Quote: Ibeatyouraces
I won't necessarily get into the financial structure of all of it, but everyone gets paid pretty well :D
If we're ever there, wherever you're at, we're just blowing through so don't mind us :-)
And that's totally fine, the liklihood is that I'll probably try to milk you for information about specific machines when you come through, and if you've got some good information for me/us, I'll have my guys leave you some plays for your cooperation :D
Quote: MrVI define "fail" in this context, that of the full time gambler, as not earning enough money to support yourself, your family, and your interests / obligations in life.
Either you make enough bread, or you don't.
And that's a fair enough definition, just try to understand that most of us that are serious about it, and are true "professionals" at it, make quite a bit more than your "average" AP. Like KJ, I too dislike the "professional" term for how it sounds, we just don't have a better option to call it :P.
Quote: rxwineFurthermore, if someone said they make a six figure salary, I assume they make at least $100k not $10,000.01. More evidence, I believe.
edit
1,000.00
eh,
and again.
1000.01
I give up.
I don't think I've ever known anyone to consider anything past a decimal to be included in the "figures" amount. 6 figures = 100k or better, 5 figures = 10k or better, and so on.
Quote: MrVTo help put this "professional gamber" thing into context: the Wiz is not a professional gambler.
He likes to gamble and is keenly interested in all things related to it, and he seeks out AP opportunities when he can find them, but in-casino gambling / AP is not how he pays for his home, food, family and daily expenses.
The leader of the pack follows a different path.
No offense to the Wiz, but who says he's the leader of the pack? I certainly didn't learn what I know now from him, and he certainly wasn't at the forefront of what my mentors taught me, so how would this add any credence to what you're trying to claim here? In all honesty MrV, there are probably few machine AP's out there who make more than I do, doing what I do, but there are certainly hundreds of guys out there who have made more on their lifetime because they were privy to a specific game and milked it for a fortune. So in essence its hard to really compare two machine AP's who were exposed to varying sets of games, and even harder to define who the leader of the pack truly is :P.
Quote: MaxPen
This is rich. The VUX MOB.
I wouldn't call it a mob, but more like a group of unionized locals who all follow a specific set of rules so that rate of play-decay lowers.
Quote: SOOPOOYou can't. And I'm willing to bet you that you cant. Are you interested in such a bet?
Anyway, interested or not, welcome to the forum. Your posts are well written, well thought out and very interesting to parse through. You may not want to go into such details on a public forum, but if you are willing to divulge... how much do you amke in an average year on your various techniques..
for example... 10k on +EV VP, 20k VUX, 40k BJ, 15k mailers... 1k DI!!
By the way, if you really can lower your 7 roll to once per 7 rolls I will be able to show you how you can easily beat the house with little risk of ruin.
This is where we fall into a very grey area of DI, because we start talking about probabilities and averages and often confuse the two. My average number of rolls currently, is greater than 7 rolls to a 7, but I do not believe my probability is 1:7, in fact I believe my probability is 1:6 because at the end of the day, the dice still have 36 combinations, and 6 of them will roll a 7. I literally cannot change their probability, all I can do is attempt to roll in such a way that I limit a specific set or pairing of the dice that could come up as a 7, example, the 6-1.
That being said, are you willing to bet me that I'm not able to limit a specific set of numbers rolling, for example, the 6-1? If so, I might be inclined to take your bet. As for beating the house with little RoR, I'm willing to listen to what you have to say with an open mind, but understand that I've heard from everyone in how to beat the house at craps, and very few strategies truly work even if you get a guy who can throw the dice 7 or 8 times before a 7.
Quote: MrVEmployment benefits is a hot-button issue for most of us, no question.
My point is that a professional gambler has to factor it into the mix when determining whether to embark on the 'gamblin' man' path.
As do any self employed people in other lines of work, or even many small business owners. Having owned several small businesses myself, I'm extremely well versed in employment benefits and their costs to me.
I think you're trying too hard to paint a negative picture for those who have "made it" and instead should focus on the guy just learning how to do it, and instead of painting this "doom and gloom" picture, probably need to change your stance to that of "education", because like all things work related, the only replacement for experience is education, if you have neither, you're going to have a rough time.
Quote: Mission146
Further, I would also point out that I am elated when I discover a new play or when an existing play goes really well, .
Why? I expect what I do to work, don't you
have that expectation? Saying I'm
elated by what I do would be like saying
I'm elated when my car starts. It's supposed
to start, I expect it to start. Emotion has
no place in a casino outside of ploppydom.
Sometimes I feel relief at not getting caught,
but mostly I don't expect to get caught, so
I don't feel anything. It's just a job, how can
you be on an emotional rollercoaster and
still do your job.
You do your homework, do the math, play
10 times more in practice than you do in
the casino, what's there to get elated about.
I's a boring grind.
Quote: EvenBobWhy? I expect what I do to work, don't you
have that expectation? Saying I'm
elated by what I do would be like saying
I'm elated when my car starts. It's supposed
to start, I expect it to start. Emotion has
no place in a casino outside of ploppydom.
Sometimes I feel relief at not getting caught,
but mostly I don't expect to get caught, so
I don't feel anything. It's just a job, how can
you be on an emotional rollercoaster and
still do your job.
You do your homework, do the math, play
10 times more in practice than you do in
the casino, what's there to get elated about.
I's a boring grind.
I have to agree. Outside of the rare big win, I don't get excited over any of this. It's just another day at the office.
Quote: MrVAh, but what about health insurance and a retirement plan?
Pretty pricey to fund these out of pocket.
Hopefully your spouse / partner has a job with those benefits available to you, otherwise you're paying a lot out of pocket, or (more likely) you're unable to cover the cost of health insurance for yourself and to set aside funds for your retirement and thereby living dangerously and very foolishly (no personal insult intended).
I suppose the life of a professional gambler is best suited for single people without dependents: most will probably fail, and when the implosion comes they won't take their loved ones down with them.
Health insurance is still pricey for the self-employed but not AS pricey as it was before Obamacare.
I pay $282/month for a silver plan from the best insurer in the state. $2k deductible. That's expensive, sure, but it's not going to cripple me. That said, I hardly ever meet the deductible, so I'm really subsidizing everyone else. I guess that's what 'Bama wanted. (Socialism - gasp!) But I wish I could just take out a high deductible catastrophic plan and not pay a penalty.
Quote: Exoter175
That being said, are you willing to bet me that I'm not able to limit a specific set of numbers rolling, for example, the 6-1? If so, I might be inclined to take your bet.
.
I would be willing to bet you can't reliably avoid a 1-6 combo more than a random roller. Do you think you could limit your 1-6 combo to 5 or fewer times in a 180 roll trial? I'd pay to see it!
Maybe we all do that, pick something you want to do, invest the time, effort and money to go after it. Maybe no guaranties. It works, or it doesn't. If "doesn't ", start over. Rinse and repeat is a phraseology often used here.
But to make a living thru AP at the Casinos is a bit more specific.
I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings here (not a liberal, just trying to be polite).
You could look at the combined labor efforts of mankind and compare us to a beehive, or an anthill, or pick your metaphor. The tradition has been for an adult to find some labor they can perform for the 'community' to justify their existence. Plant some corn, work on cars, build cars or something else in a factory setting. Work in retail, or wholesale, or design the Internet, or a better way to use the Internet. It's productivity, it pays, and it contributes to everyone else. That is why it pays, BTW.
There are a lot of people, supposedly, that have learned how to 'work' the system. Think welfare recipients that could be out working for a living but don't. Maybe you need to think about a bunch of people that thought Social Security was going to let them live thru 10, 20, even 30 or more years of retirement?
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that AP in the casinos is what anyone would want to choose as their contribution to the community, to mankind. I guess one could claim they are just figuring out the things the casinos do wrong, making a living by doing so, and claim they are actually working for the casino to fix the casino's mistakes. But doesn't that drive up the cost for everyone else that likes to have a bit of fun at the casino, at least in the short run?
I got no problem whatsoever with anyone doing whatever they need to do to get by. That is especially true if you have dependents. I do question whether it is appropriate to encourage AP in the casinos as a primary goal as to how to fulfill one's life satisfactorily, particularly for the younger crowd just moving into adulthood.
Now you retire after all the BS you put up with for so many years and want to go beat the casino, well that's a whole different topic ;-)
Quote: Exoter175Bear with me guys, I have a daily posting limit I have to account for, hit my cap last night and couldn't address your posts.
Forum rule 14? Are you a member of Mensa?Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Quote: TwoFeathersATL
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that AP in the casinos is what anyone would want to choose as their contribution to the community, to mankind.
I don't think this is a fair assessment. It isn't like it was years ago when every job contributed something, the baker, the candlestick maker, the factory worker. In today's world, especially the corporate world there are many jobs, that are middlemen or paper pushers. I sure the majority of those people don't leave work feeling like they have contributed a shitload to society. They have earned a paycheck. I also don't think they would think that middleman paper pushing job defines them or defines their contribution to society.
First, earning money and then spending money is contributing to society. You create jobs. The people that work in the grocery stores, the people that work for the energy company, the guy that cares for my swimming pool all have jobs because of me. So as long as someone is earning their money in a legal way, they are contributing to society. I am earning a living legally and contributing to society, so stop with the attempt at shaming, 2f. :(
There are many things people do outside of how they earn a living that may be more important as far as contributing to society, like various volunteer work, coaching little league, girls scout leader. I personally do a lot of volunteer work with the homeless, devoting my time. I also have a number of organizations that I contribute to financially. My big project is, I am a sponsor for a local radio station that gives away backpacks and school supplies to low income children each summer just before school begins.
What I am trying to say is how one earns a living is really a small part of who they are, what they contribute to society and the footprint they leave behind when they depart this world. I am very comfortable with where I am at.
Thanks for your response. I almost mentioned volunteering, almost mentioned you specifically in my post. It was already getting long. I have no problem with anyone choosing AP in casinos as a career. I questioned whether it was advisable as a career choice. I hope you understand the difference.
Cheers! 2F
Quote: TwoFeathersATLMr J,
Thanks for your response. I almost mentioned volunteering, almost mentioned you specifically in my post. It was already getting long. I have no problem with anyone choosing AP in casinos as a career. I questioned whether it was advisable as a career choice. I hope you understand the difference.
Cheers! 2F
I don't understand really. I mean who is 'advising' anyone to choose AP as a career? I honestly don't remember anyone doing that in the 24 pages of this thread. I guess I could go back and re-read. The OP asked a question, "can I make a living through gambling?" Some of us that do that have attempted to share our experiences, but I really didn't see anyone encouraging him to do so.
But if AP is the career that someone chooses, I honestly don't see it as any worse as far as contributing than many other jobs. It's a means to earning a living and that doesn't define me as a person or define my contribution to society.
Quote: kewljI don't understand really. I mean who is 'advising' anyone to choose AP as a career? I honestly don't remember anyone doing that in the 24 pages of this thread. I guess I could go back and re-read. The OP asked a question, "can I make a living through gambling?" Some of us that do that have attempted to share our experiences, but I really didn't see anyone encouraging him to do so.
But if AP is the career that someone chooses, I honestly don't see it as any worse as far as contributing than many other jobs. It's a means to earning a living and that doesn't define me as a person or define my contribution to society.
Mr J.
I have a lot of respect for your contributions to this forum. I have read most of your posts over the last couple years, and your blog. I have no problem with you. I also don't have a problem standing by anything I said in this thread. I actually took a minute or two instead of just blasting some nonsense out. We do not have to agree, I can live with that.
Quote: EvenBobWhy? I expect what I do to work, don't you
have that expectation? Saying I'm
elated by what I do would be like saying
I'm elated when my car starts. It's supposed
to start, I expect it to start. Emotion has
no place in a casino outside of ploppydom.
Sometimes I feel relief at not getting caught,
but mostly I don't expect to get caught, so
I don't feel anything. It's just a job, how can
you be on an emotional rollercoaster and
still do your job.
You do your homework, do the math, play
10 times more in practice than you do in
the casino, what's there to get elated about.
I's a boring grind.
Position: "It's just a job."
Counter-Argument: "Some people like their jobs and are elated when something at work goes well."
In fairness, perhaps I was too quick to jump on, 'Elated,' and should have qualified it with mildly. Of course, if I get a dealt Royal vulturing Ten-Play UX on quarters, elated will definitely be the appropriate term without a qualifier. There's also Variance, of course, so as opposed to some job where your check says the same thing regardless of how well the company does, it's nice to win more than expected.
Quote: Mission146...it's nice to win more than expected.
I'm +$302.00 in just 4 1/2 casino time (30 minutes "work" time) today. I prefer the job I do. And right now getting a comped steak dinner.
Quote: Mission146it's nice to win more than expected.
I couldn't play that way, because it also
means I could win less than I expected.
If I didn't know I was going to win, and
how much, I couldn't go.
You made your point well. Someday I want to be that good.
Quote: jjjooogggIbeatyouraces
You made your point well. Someday I want to be that good.
Once in a while you get a hose job :-)
Quote: IbeatyouracesI have to agree. Outside of the rare big win, I don't get excited over any of this. It's just another day at the office.
I'm the exact same way. If I knock the top off of something I wasn't going for, or if I light the top on VP, I get a little excited, but otherwise, I'm just trying to make my money and get to the next play.
Quote: SOOPOOI would be willing to bet you can't reliably avoid a 1-6 combo more than a random roller. Do you think you could limit your 1-6 combo to 5 or fewer times in a 180 roll trial? I'd pay to see it!
In 180 rolls, I "should" roll a 7 30 times. 5 of those should be 4-3, 5 of those should be 3-4, 5 of those should be 5-2, 5 of those should be 2-5, 5 of those should be 6-1, and the last 5 should be 1-6.
Are you specifically referring to a 1-6 or a 6-1, or the combination of both whould should total 10? Because you said 5, I'm going to assume you specifically mean 1-6 unless you didn't calculate your odds correctly, or are challenging me to reduce the total combination of the two, by half, which would be remarkable.
Please clarify.
Quote: TwoFeathersATL
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that AP in the casinos is what anyone would want to choose as their contribution to the community, to mankind. I guess one could claim they are just figuring out the things the casinos do wrong, making a living by doing so, and claim they are actually working for the casino to fix the casino's mistakes. But doesn't that drive up the cost for everyone else that likes to have a bit of fun at the casino, at least in the short run?
Now you retire after all the BS you put up with for so many years and want to go beat the casino, well that's a whole different topic ;-)
Two things.
1. How could AP'ing "hamper" the community, first of all, as you're essentially comparing us to welfare recipients in a derogatory fashion.
2. Paying taxes, putting enough money away for my own retirement, not having to depending on government assistance, while simultaneously taking care of my family are somehow viewed as not improving the community? I beg to differ. Further, why must I improve the community? The existence of paid labor, throughout the history of time, has been strictly to provide for ones self and his/her dependents, not to improve the community or be unnecessarily taxed to provide for others. Though the service itself could be viewed today as a "benefit" to the community, there's still a lot of argument back and forth on that subject. Do you think a blacksmith in the feudal times decided "I want to be a blacksmith so I can benefit my community"? Probably not. He probably thought to himself "My daughter hasn't eaten in two days, I haven't eaten in four, perhaps I should take up this trade so that I can provide for my family and not get the black death."
Quote: Exoter175How could AP'ing "hamper" the community
I believe he was thinking of the implied social contract we have as members of society, the inherent obligation to give back as well as take.
Being of benefit to your fellow man (such as a doctor or garbage man) is better than being a leech (welfare recipient / thieving drug addict), for example.
As for full-time AP's, there is certainly SOME benefit to society, as they help keep slot attendants and BJ dealers and ancillary casino workers employed.
Other than that, they provide no benefit to society that I can see, as their efforts are wholly focused upon themselves: they produce nothing which is of value such as products, services, intellectual property, or entertainment.
Quote: MrVI believe he was thinking of the implied social contract we have as members of society, the inherent obligation to give back as well as take.
Being of benefit to your fellow man (such as a doctor or garbage man) is better than being a leech (welfare recipient / thieving drug addict), for example.
As for full-time AP's, there is certainly SOME benefit to society, as they help keep slot attendants and BJ dealers and ancillary casino workers employed.
Other than that, they provide no benefit to society that I can see, as their efforts are wholly focused upon themselves: they produce nothing which is of value such as products, services, intellectual property, or entertainment.
That's just silly. Out of curiosity, what benefit does a collections agent provide to society? How about an insurance salesman? Do IRS auditors really provide a benefit to society? What about those who create religions to use up government grant money to build compounds and impregnate 15 year olds? Is there REALLLLLLLY a benefit to society there?
Not every job is a benefit to society, not every job is completely "honest". To say that the taxes that I pay, the money that I circulate through the economy, and the welfare of those I provide for is not a "benefit" to the community, while there are those out there who do none of that for themselves or others, is absolutely silly.
Daytraders, doing basically the real world version of what I do, what is their benefit, other than to create money when there is +EV? If I'm involved in team play, and my job is to go out there and make money for myself, while making money for another, am I not "benefiting society" in the exact same way a daytrader does?
Quote: Exoter175To say that the taxes that I pay, the money that I circulate through the economy, and the welfare of those I provide for is not a "benefit" to the community, while there are those out there who do none of that for themselves or others, is absolutely silly.
I never claimed that paying taxes is of no benefit.
I claimed that society receives no direct benefit from the gambling activity itself (other than keeping casino employees busier than they might otherwise be).
An assembly line worker makes a product.
A plumber fixes a leaky pipe.
A doctor mends a broken leg.
What does a professional gambler do that benefits others?
Now compare that to your example of an insurance salesman: he provides a clear benefit: an insurance policy.
IRS auditors benefit the herd by making certain we pay our fair share.
It has nothing to do with whether people pay taxes on their income, it has everything to do with the VALUE to society of the fruit of their labor.
I'm not saying full-time AP's are bad people, or that what they do is illegal.
