Can I Make A Living Thru Gambling?

People forget have much more they are paid (or cost a company) even in a minimal wage job. The vast majority of jobs have some of these benefits: health care, retirement benefits, social security benefits, IRAs, workers comp, unemployment insurance, vacation, sick pay, disability benefits and I doubt a strictly APer has these benefits.

Quote: zoobrew

People forget have much more they are paid (or cost a company) even in a minimal wage job. The vast majority of jobs have some of these benefits: health care, retirement benefits, social security benefits, IRAs, workers comp, unemployment insurance, vacation, sick pay, disability benefits and I doubt a strictly APer has these benefits.

Those and add 15% self employment tax and volatility in income, you have to make AT LEAST 50%-75% more than you would at a regular job for it to make sense financially. That being said, it's most important to do what makes you happy so long as it pays the bills.

Can a living be made by AP? Yes. Can YOU make a living ap? Maybe, probably not now. Takes a type of person, and while you're learning it has to be an obsession, as well as being capital intensive. If you don't have at least 50k to put towards it, not including 6 months living expenses or any debt you have, it's a huge and irresponsible risk..

I am fairly successful at NLHE with a long term track record of close to 20 per hour at 1-2 and 43 at 2-5, but that is with good game selection. I don't think that I could do it on a consistent daily basis though. By long term, I'm talking about over 1000 hours of play. Problem is I find poker a frustrating unenjoyable grind when trying to make money. I have much more fum playing with friends. I do not believe it possible to be successful long term at tournaments without sponsorship. Cash money over 2-5 is ultra stiff competition. High denomination limit games are the same, imo.
I have had a fair amount of success with BJ. Mostly with 2 sidebet variants. The one I favor most has all but disappeared from places that I prefer to play here in Vegas. My bankroll was predominantly built with these 2 sidebets. I do not enjoy the swings that come with straight up Hi-Lo as much as I used to and find the grind similar to poker as of late. I admire the few that are truly successful employing the strategy, but damn, it has to be a rough way to support oneself on a yearly basis. I think KewlJ will attest to this, although he seemingly enjoys what he does (Maybe he's a little masochistic :-),,,,definitely an authority on the matter deserving of respect.
The above two devices are pretty much the only way to support oneself in a disciplined fundamental execution, not"gambling" .
AP is the other world that you have to expend alot of time and effort to even get started and a mentor is highly recommended. AP involves so many factors and deployment of strategies to fit the situation, that I definitely believe that with the same effort expended, you could be successful in the career of your choice. Standard AP involves "legal" manipulation and exploitation of weaknesses some are uncomfortable taking advantage of. What's funny is, outside a casino successful AP's are some of the most stand up people you will ever meet.
I take advantage of every exploitable casino opportunity that I am aware of on a part time basis and enjoy it. The reason why I have a hard time with deciding to try to go full time is I have a fairly decent job that I enjoy. Plus no edge lasts and you have to constantly be looking. Part time is fun, I think full time would turn to GRIND. Most of the time, I find myself unhappy with the risk vs. reward ratio of common things due to grind. Uncommon things require extreme amounts of time and dedication to employ and are best left to the professional.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, think long and hard before jumping into the pool. Guy's like Axel and DJATC deserve alot of respect from anyone involved with AP because they are doing it and have successful track records. But, when you ask them, I'm pretty sure they'll let you know it is not a world without sacrifice. But hey, what isn't?

Wynn is full of crap, but what would you
expect him to say. In all his years in all
his casinos he's never seen a long term
winner, even at sports and poker? Billy
Walters has never played a Wynn casino?
Sure he has. Any of 10 poker players
I could name have never played a Wynn?
He's never kicked a player out for winning
consistently in the 30 years he's been
around? Yeah, right.

Quote: Zcore13

So he said...
ZCore13

I agree, Mickey said a lot of stuff. He also drank
a lot of stuff. The two often go together..

My opinion is if you think you're getting
in on the entry level and making any money
in the first two years, on your own, it
will kill you dead. There is a lonnnng
learning curve to become an AP and the
majority don't have the stamina, they give
up and walk away.

Don't even begin is what I would tell a
newbie.

Quote: EvenBob

Wynn is full of crap, but what would you
expect him to say. In all his years in all
his casinos he's never seen a long term
winner, even at sports and poker? Billy
Walters has never played a Wynn casino?
Sure he has. Any of 10 poker players
I could name have never played a Wynn?
He's never kicked a player out for winning
consistently in the 30 years he's been
around? Yeah, right.

Wynn doesn't care about poker players wins. It's not house money. Poker is never even considered when manager talks about AP or players winning.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

Wynn doesn't care about poker players wins. It's not house money. Poker is never even considered when manager talks about AP or players winning.


ZCore13

Do APers consider it easier/more profitable to beat the house (BJ, VP, craps etc.) or other people in the house (poker, pari-mutuel, sports)?

Quote: Zcore13

Wynn doesn't care about poker players wins. It's not house money. Poker is never even considered when manager talks about AP or players winning.
ZCore13

It doesn't matter, he said nobody ever
wins long term in his casinos. He should
have said, except a few poker and sports
players. But that would take away from
the axiomatic sounding statement he was
making.

Quote: EvenBob

Don't even begin is what I would tell a newbie.

I concur, and more to the point, "don't even begin" is certainly what I would tell the type of newbie who needs to ask the question on the Internet.

If you're starting from scratch and looking at investing X months and $Y in bankroll to learn how to become an AP, one of two things will happen:

a) You've got what it takes to be an AP, in which case you're better off spending X and Y learning a more lucrative trade. In other words, you'll make more money with less risk doing something else. Software consulting, for example.

b) You don't have what it takes to be an AP and you'd ultimately bust out. In that case too you're better off spending X and Y learning a trade because your alternative is losing all your money.

Either way, learning AP from scratch (today) is clearly not an optimal investment of either time or money for anyone. If you're going to be an AP, you should carefully consider whether that startup time and overall decrease in lifetime income is truly compensated by your personal reasons for attempting to gamble for a living.

This thread has been a little “all over the place”.....kind of branched out in several directions. Part of that is due to the OP being very vauge, no specifics at all of what he was talking about or interested in.
My first reply sort of took that into consideration. I assumed (and we all know about ass*u*me) that the OP was a younger guy who had recently saw the movie '21', or maybe one of the TV shows about sportsbetting or some televised poker which led him, and so many other to believe there is easy money to be made as a professional 'gambler', including the glamorous lifestyle of casino hotel suites and comped gourmet meals. I doubt the OP was talking about or even knew of machine AP, but it's good that there was some participation by those that know that field.

So, lets back up a minute and define “make a living thru gambling”. First thing that comes to mind is “sure, casino operators make a great living thru gambling”. LOL. But I'll try to go whith what I think the OP was inquiring about.

I love the teddys story of completely living off and at the casinos, including housing and all food, even if he only did it for 4 months. That's great stuff! I know of a couple others that have done it a little longer that that, for a year or two, even bouncing from casino towns like Vegas to Reno, ect. That is only going to appeal to a certain type of person, young, single, minimal expenses, probably no car, probably a loner type personality, for anything but the shortest time before it starts to get old, I would imagine.

But is that REALLY making a living gambling? (no offense to teddys or anyone else). I think of making a living a little more of the traditional type thing, like having a home, whether you own or rent, that you pay rent/mortgage each month. Having other monthly expenses, food, utilities, car expense (or maybe you are a bus fare guy...that's ok), health insurance (← don't make the mistake of overlooking this one). And SAVING for the future. :)

I live with 3 other people that all think they are making a living gambling or APing, but really I am the only one in my household that currently is and that's not to pat myself on the back or put them down. One plays poker and I guess overall he makes a little profit playing poker, but not enough to pay for shelter, if he didn't have a friend like me (I often wonder if I am really doing him any favor by 'enabling' this 'career'). :/

Then there is my younger brother, who is now 9 months into his first year as a blackjack player. He started with a BR of 10K and he has made a some money this year, but at the low limit level he is playing his EV is right around that minimum wage mark. It's pretty difficult to live off of that. I know because I did that for 3 solid years back east, when I started out with an even smaller BR than that. And the sad part is that my brother is working harder than I currently do, because he has a much smaller number of 'playable' games, and those games are less playable and profitable, because of crowded conditions and crappier rules at the lower limits.

So while I don't know exactly what the OP has in mind, I will give some thoughts as far as Blackjack, which is the area I know a little something about, as the majority of my own income comes from BJ play. It's almost impossible to make what I would call a living, playing red chip, lower limit, unless you are living at home with your parents or older brother, or friend in the case of my other housemate, who is subsidizing your career by covering living expenses.

To make what I consider a legitimate living playing blackjack, you have to play at least green to black level to earn decent EV and that is going to require a MINIMUM bankroll of 30-50K, to do it safely. And that is if you keep expenses low. If you have to travel a lot as many pro BJ players do (and there aren't that many of us these days), you are going to have to play even higher limits to cover expenses and that requires an even bigger BR. There's more to it than this, but this is the minimum BR and levels needed to make what I consider a legitimate living. You just can't grind out a living playing BJ at red chip level off a 10K BR, making $5-$7 and hour anymore, IF that's what the OP had in mind.

And I haven't even address that line where the OP said “At least winning CONSTANTLY at minimum wage”. Nothing constant or steady about it, but I'll save that for another time. :/

Quote: Dicenor33

It's a challenge. Why people climb mountains, run marathons, concouring opposite sex? Money? Not really. You fight a monster, you are against very smart people like Wizzard or Mission, Ahigh. you have overcome your own weaknesses and that is a real victory.

Thanks for the compliment, definitely flattering, but I only have 0.2% of the AP knowledge of someone like Axel or KewlJ on my best day!

Quote: Mission146

but I only have 0.2% of the AP knowledge of someone like Axel or KewlJ on my best day!

Mission, you, and Babs earlier are giving me way more credit that I deserve. I am not a very knowledgeable AP. I have some knowledge in one particular, very elementary and almost outdated area of card counting. It has become so outdated that many in the AP community don't even consider CCing AP anymore. I have come up with nothing ground-breaking or new, applying techniques that I have 'borrowed' from many different people. At best, I have very average mathematical skills. Luckily for me, in this day and age we have simulations that do most of the math for us as far as what I do.

I really am in awe of the much smarter people with superior mathematical abilities and minds, like yourself, which I have seen demonstrated by some of your posts here. People that can look at a game for a minute and immediately figure how or what it would take to beat it. I can look at that game for days and haven't a clue unless someone lays it out for me.

I can take credit for being disciplined, patient and persistent, but not for being all that smart.

Thanks for not bringing my name up. I know nothing 0:-X

Being disciplined, patient and persistent IS being smart. If I ever do go full time, the first and third of those items would have a good chance of being my downfall.

I certainly appreciate the compliments, which are definitely more deserved by someone like Axel, DJATC, IBYA and many others out there, but knowing how to win is less than half the battle.

Besides, as others have pointed out, you might average minimum wage grinding out thin edges on machines, and in terms of hourly profit, I probably average right about that on hours spent in the casino. It's a hobby for me, really.

Fortunately, if I ever do go FT, I have some knowledge of what needs to be done in order to make that possible, and I think I could figure out some other stuff.

Either that, or I'd pick up the phone, call Axel, and say, "I'm ready to work now!"

Quote: Mission146

Thanks for the compliment, definitely flattering, but I only have 0.2% of the AP knowledge of someone like Axel or KewlJ on my best day!

See that right there Mission? You were even able to figure out the percentage of AP knowledge you have of the pros! Yer awesome : )

How is a newbie going to acquire the skill, the discipline, and the large bankroll which some have stated is required to have a fair chance at earning minimum wage or slightly better by gambling?

And who in their right mind would knowingly invest all the time and money necessary to become a bonafide AP, given such a low payoff at the end?

My advice to the OP is to forget it.

Go to school, acquire a marketable skill, get a good job and make a very good living the old fashioned way: earn it.

Then gamble for fun (and hoped for profit) using only a dedicated bankroll that you can comfortably afford to lose.

You enjoy risk?

Become an entrepreneur, play the investment markets: figure out an angle and run with it.

Don't look to casinos for your bread and butter: they don't build those fancy joints by paying winners.

You want to take a shot?

Got an itch you've just got to scratch?

Then I guess you'll just go for it, but always have a fallback plan and an emergency fund: odds are you'll need it when you tap out.

I wonder how many former gamblers now beg on the streets of Las Vegas and sleep in the tunnels?

The Land of Broken Dreams.

MrV, I don't see where anyone has encouraged this poster to attempt to become a "professional gambler". He asked a question of "is it possible"??

I think the majority of responders have responded fairly and if anything painted a less than flattering picture of the lifestyle.

Quote: kewlj

MrV, I don't see where anyone has encouraged this poster to attempt to become a "professional gambler". He asked a question of "is it possible"?.

Look again at the title of his post.

He didn't ask whether it is possible, he wants to know if he" CAN (emphasis added) make a living thru (sic) gambling."

While none encouraged him to become a "professional gambler," we all weighed in with our opinions on the subject.

The AP's called it the way they see it; the casino staff chimed in with their view, and I opined with my thoughts as a recreational gambler.

Quote: MathExtremist

Either way, learning AP from scratch (today) is clearly not an optimal investment of either time or money for anyone.

Being an AP isn't sexy, isn't macho, isn't fun,
isn't anything except a lot of work. Boring
work. Casinos are the most boring places
on earth, right above cemeteries. Get a
job walking dogs for a living, it will be
more rewarding.

Quote: EvenBob

Being an AP isn't sexy, isn't macho, isn't fun,
isn't anything except a lot of work. Boring
work. Casinos are the most boring places
on earth, right above cemeteries. Get a
job walking dogs for a living, it will be
more rewarding.

I disagree with everything after the word, 'macho,' and agree with everything before and including that word.

EDIT: Walking dogs might be more rewarding for some people.

Quote: Mission146

I disagree with everything after the word, 'macho,' and agree with everything before and including that word.

Only because you seldom go to casinos
and hold the opinion they are something
they are not. Or you are extremely easily
entertained, something I doubt.

Something that I didn't think of, but an interesting point. If you know what you're doing (ie: AlexWulf or dgaytc), then you can find those juicy games, make more money, take on less financial risk and don't need a monster bankroll. If you don't know what you're doing and don't have the knowledge, you gotta have a much larger bankroll because you're going to be playing worse games with lower player advantages, higher financial risks, etc.

Quote: EvenBob

Only because you seldom go to casinos
and hold the opinion they are something
they are not. Or you are extremely easily
entertained, something I doubt.

I seldom do what!?

I also appreciate the implied compliment, but I am pretty easily entertained. My favorite -EV game is probably Video Keno...lol. I'd also love it for +EV, when possible, for maybe two hours, more than that is a bit much.

Quote: JustALuck

MrV, when you said "do what big boys do and play the markets"...did you mean stock market, forex, futures, mutual fund, etc?

Forex, eh? You know about that and still are asking what to do?

Well, this thread is providing entertainment for everybody and I guess I'll go along with it.

I think you have said or implied you have little money to start with. Always a problem. Personally, I don't think the market will work for someone without a bankroll, but some people do swear day-trading can work. Don't say you don't know what that is if you know what Forex is about. Do I recommend day-trading? No, for the reasons below if there is anything to it, which I can't confirm either.

Day-trading or not, you are probably not going to do well. In a sense, stocks are +EV [if diversified], since history has shown they always go up eventually. Trading is problematic because you have commissions and the bid/ask spread to overcome. But that is not the worst problem: somebody near broke all the time tends to need the money back just at the same time the market takes a big swoon. So they quit trading, which probably didn't work to begin with, and seal in a big loss by cashing out in down times. This happened to me too, back when, when I overestimated how much I could afford to put into the market and leave there. If you have a small bankroll, how are you going to avoid this?

Scratch "the market" if you don't have the dough.

Perhaps the following question would be helpful for gamblers to ask and answer:

"How can I earn the money necessary to support an anticipated lifetime of casino gambling?"

In other words, what fields of endeavor will most likely yield sufficient income over one's lifetime to support casino gambling?

There is of course no one, correct answer: it depends on the person, but it is a very important question, one which should be asked and answered realistically without BSing oneself.

In my opinion, very few succeed at making a good living solely through gambling: as I understand it, the typical areas that tend to produce such successful players are poker, sports, and BJ.

None of those areas intrigue me so I have never pursued learning how best to approach them.

As a recreational gambler I understand that I "have to pay to play," just as it costs me quite a bit of money to travel, or enjoy several of my hobbies / interests.

That's simply the way things work.

The economic reality is that if someone without much money spends a lot of time in a casino, it is inevitable that they will experience periods of loss leading to near or total wipeout of their limited bankroll: not fun.

No, the logical way to approach casino gambling "for the long run" is to only bring a bankroll which you can afford to lose: if you cannot afford to lose it, don't bet it.

Never play with scared money: never.

The trick is figuring out how to acquire the money required to gamble at the level you wish to play at.

"Be patient" and "work hard" are two traditional bits of advice which are hard to fault.

Quote: MrV

Perhaps the following question would be helpful for gamblers to ask and answer:

"How can I earn the money necessary to support an anticipated lifetime of casino gambling?"

In other words, what fields of endeavor will most likely yield sufficient income over one's lifetime to support casino gambling?

There is of course no one, correct answer: it depends on the person, but it is a very important question, one which should be asked and answered realistically without BSing oneself.

In my opinion, very few succeed at making a good living solely through gambling: as I understand it, the typical areas that tend to produce such successful players are poker, sports, and BJ.

None of those areas intrigue me so I have never pursued learning how best to approach them.

As a recreational gambler I understand that I "have to pay to play," just as it costs me quite a bit of money to travel, or enjoy several of my hobbies / interests.

That's simply the way things work.

The economic reality is that if someone without much money spends a lot of time in a casino, it is inevitable that they will experience periods of loss leading to near or total wipeout of their limited bankroll: not fun.

No, the logical way to approach casino gambling "for the long run" is to only bring a bankroll which you can afford to lose: if you cannot afford to lose it, don't bet it.

Never play with scared money: never.

The trick is figuring out how to acquire the money required to gamble at the level you wish to play at.

"Be patient" and "work hard" are two traditional bits of advice which are hard to fault.

Was that never play with scared money, or never play with sacred money?

Quote: Mission146

I disagree with everything after the word, 'macho,' and agree with everything before and including that word.

EDIT: Walking dogs might be more rewarding for some people.

Agreed, except I don't like dogs.

Quote: MrV

Perhaps the following question would be helpful for gamblers to ask and answer:

"How can I earn the money necessary to support an anticipated lifetime of casino gambling?"

In other words, what fields of endeavor will most likely yield sufficient income over one's lifetime to support casino gambling?

There is of course no one, correct answer: it depends on the person, but it is a very important question, one which should be asked and answered realistically without BSing oneself.

In my opinion, very few succeed at making a good living solely through gambling: as I understand it, the typical areas that tend to produce such successful players are poker, sports, and BJ.

None of those areas intrigue me so I have never pursued learning how best to approach them.

As a recreational gambler I understand that I "have to pay to play," just as it costs me quite a bit of money to travel, or enjoy several of my hobbies / interests.

That's simply the way things work.

The economic reality is that if someone without much money spends a lot of time in a casino, it is inevitable that they will experience periods of loss leading to near or total wipeout of their limited bankroll: not fun.

No, the logical way to approach casino gambling "for the long run" is to only bring a bankroll which you can afford to lose: if you cannot afford to lose it, don't bet it.

Never play with scared money: never.

The trick is figuring out how to acquire the money required to gamble at the level you wish to play at.

"Be patient" and "work hard" are two traditional bits of advice which are hard to fault.

That playing with scared money thing is kind of a crock.

The only reason not to play with scared money is because it's probably not enough, or your risking your rent money and thats not smart.

It may be good advice in general but it has nothing to do with the odds.

IE. if someone has a small bankroll and huge advantage I suggest playing with scared money at that point. As long as you won't be on the street if you lose.

I had no car and very little money when I quit my job. I had a huge advantage so I took the risk, for most people that would be scared money.

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

Was that never play with scared money, or never play with sacred money?

"Scared."

"Sacred" money is off limits, unless it is first accounted for and then paid out to the priest as legitimate salary.

see

Quote: EvenBob

Being an AP isn't sexy, isn't macho, isn't fun,
isn't anything except a lot of work. Boring
work. Casinos are the most boring places
on earth, right above cemeteries. Get a
job walking dogs for a living, it will be
more rewarding.

Macho?

Hell yea. Just about everyone I know wants me to share secrets so they can do it too. Here I am beating huge corporations and going toe to toe sometimes with entire casino staff and surveillance/security.

Here is a true story. I really needed a partner once and a friend hooked me up with a drug dealer. He hoped this would keep his friend from doing illegal activities and I needed someone with some idea of how to be covert. Well, the guy quit training after two days -- he literally told me that with all those security guards walking around, passing and staring at him all day, he was freaking out. He actually told me (coming from a drug dealer) that I must have balls of steel to do what I do.

Now what could be more macho?

Fun? Hell yea, I make my own hours within a certain extent, play and win money. Do I lose? Sometimes but my profit is higher than my losses and YES, I do pay my rent and all my bills and even the clothes on my back from casino gambling. I have not held a job in the real world for over a decade.

Now is it work? Well, yes, I definitely classify it as such. Work I enjoy so that I can't wait most of the time to get to it. But work nonetheless. I try to convince people I know who are not AP's it is work and they insist I am just having fun and games. I imagine the circus clown will have a similar argument. Outsiders will accuse him of just having fun acting goofy while he will feel it is work! Behind the smile is the face of a clown... and an AP.

You can AP, you can live off it, this is from personal experience but is it easy? For me, yes, I know what I am doing. For someone who is just starting, a huge learning curve and the high probability you will not make it.

One method for learning, hang in casinos and watch everyone on a daily basis. Eventually you will begin to see recognizable patrons, ones who probably strike you because they play less than other people. either they are loners or they congregate with the SAME faces you recognize. These are the hustlers. A hustler can almost always tell another hustler and most of them are doing something AP in the casino. Watch and you might begin to learn firsthand without risking too much money.

Good luck.

Quote: MrV

"Scared."

"Sacred" money is off limits, unless it is first accounted for and then paid out to the priest as legitimate salary.

see

I knew, or thought I knew, you meant scared money, but I wondered.... oK just a little.
You know the difference obviously, nice link.
One of the pictures reminds me of your Avatar, laughing a lot ;-)

I always equated "scared money" as money that is really meant for something else, particularly rent and such.

I put top emphasis on having a secure place to retreat to and lay your head to recharge every night, even if that is just a rented room. I wouldn't compromise that for anything. This likely stems from my own personal experience of being homeless for a short (3 month) period when I was 18.

This is why I have such a hard time with folks that compromise that 'home' thing in the name of pursuing their dream, like an aspiring professional AP or poker player sleeping in his car to save money for his BR. That doesn't make sense to me.

But there is another side to this sort of reckless pursuit of a dream whether it is professional gambling or something else. When I lived in Philadelphia, prior to beginning my own blackjack career, I volunteered with a program that matched younger people like myself with older folks who lived alone in a companion type environment. We would meet a couple times a week just for an hour or so, do some errands, go out to lunch, maybe help with some shopping. Sometimes we would just sit and talk and watch a Phillies game.

The gentleman I was matched with, whom I came to like a great deal was nearing the end of life with some serious medical problems that were getting worse. He had many regrets in life. Among them were regrets of things he didn't do or things he didn't pursue that he wished he had. I suspect many, maybe most people have such regrets later in life. But that experience kind of changed my mindset to try to experience everything you want. Follow your dreams. Follow your heart. Life is just too short.

I think many people put their dreams or goals on hold. I want to do XXX sometime in my life, but now is not the time. And then this comes along and that comes along, and you meet a girl (or guy). The next thing you know you have a family and children and are tied down for decades with responsibilities and college planning and that 'sometime in my life' never seems to come.

So I will say this. If someone's dream is to be a professional gambler, the best time to attempt to fulfill this dream is when you are young, with minimal expenses and responsibilities.

I worry that I am not looking at this completely objectively because circumstances forced me into my own leap, slightly before I was really ready, and even though I struggled early on (for several years actually), it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I am so fortunate that I have more or less fulfilled my dreams and am living the life of my dreams. Not rich, by almost any measure, but living a very comfortable life playing blackjack for a living. But even if things hadn't gone down the way they did and I had failed and maybe gone back into the work force in some more tradition career, I think I would have been better for having tried, than always wondering 'if'.

Nice Mr J, very nice..

Quote: MrV

It would seem to be much easier to focus all that effort and energy on a career, either as a professional, an entrepreneur, or as a skilled tradesman.

Here's the problem with a career. In a career, you inevitably run into situations where you have to suck it up and kiss people's ass. Either your boss or your customers. You have to deal with other people's bullshit and take it with a smile or you will get fired/lose business.

Quote: darthxaos

Here's the problem with a career. In a career, you inevitably run into situations where you have to suck it up and kiss people's ass. Either your boss or your customers. You have to deal with other people's bullshit and take it with a smile or you will get fired/lose business.

If you mean there are times you have to deal with people who think / believe diffently than you, then yes, of course: that's life.

The OP hasn't logged in since the 16th. We are talking to ourselves.

Quote: jjjoooggg

The OP hasn't logged in since the 16th. We are talking to ourselves.

Which probably means we were successful in dissuading him from some possibly foolish notions, hopefully. We don't need any more AP's than we already have in this world.

With patience money management and discipline anything can be accomplished. As long as you dont go in thinking youre going to win everytime you should be fine.

I like to hit and run with a weekly progression strategy. I also like the idea of dividing your daily bankroll into thirds.

My personal craps strategy is laying numbers versus placing numbers. Not the 4 and 10 so much. The 7 is most likely to come so you never have to touch the dice if you dont want to. You can put your money up anytime including during the come out :)

When you spend enough time at the table you may start to notice patterns and instances, these can be ques to bet. My word for luck is TIMING...

Quote: OooLaHNee

With patience money management and discipline anything can be accomplished. As long as you dont go in thinking youre going to win everytime you should be fine.

I like to hit and run with a weekly progression strategy. I also like the idea of dividing your daily bankroll into thirds.

My personal craps strategy is laying numbers versus placing numbers. Not the 4 and 10 so much. The 7 is most likely to come so you never have to touch the dice if you dont want to. You can put your money up anytime including during the come out :)

When you spend enough time at the table you may start to notice patterns and instances, these can be ques to bet. My word for luck is TIMING...

As soon as I was done reading the first sentence I knew where this was headed. This has nothing to do with Advantage Play. This belongs in the system betting thread.

If this actually makes sense or sounds interesting to anyone who is interested in actually making money in casinos, You're on the wrong path and should be prepared to fail.

Quote: OooLaHNee

With patience money management and discipline anything can be accomplished. As long as you dont go in thinking youre going to win everytime you should be fine.

I like to hit and run with a weekly progression strategy. I also like the idea of dividing your daily bankroll into thirds.

My personal craps strategy is laying numbers versus placing numbers. Not the 4 and 10 so much. The 7 is most likely to come so you never have to touch the dice if you dont want to. You can put your money up anytime including during the come out :)

When you spend enough time at the table you may start to notice patterns and instances, these can be ques to bet. My word for luck is TIMING...

Were you named after your mom?

I met a woman named "Koo lah knee" [sp?]

OP's first homework is to read and think about the 10 pages of this thread when he returns.

Quote: jjjoooggg

OP's first homework is to read and think about the 10 pages of this thread when he returns.

Who knows, he could just be a reincarnation of one of our favorite posters.

Quote: AxelWolf

Who knows, he could just be a reincarnation of one of our favorite posters.

Both of ooh la la's first two posts were, were?
They didn't help my day....

Quote: jjjoooggg

OP's first homework is to read and think about the 10 pages of this thread when he returns.

Exactly! I'm still here and reading carefully of many wonderful posts in this thread ... I went out to research on some information shared here ... it's gonna take a while for me to fully digest your shared wisdom ... I'm very grateful of this conversation!

Quote: AxelWolf

Who knows, he could just be a reincarnation of one of our favorite posters.

I thought it might be DoubleOrNothing from the beginning.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

I thought it might be DoubleOrNothing from the beginning.


ZCore13

This could be legitimate.

I really didn't have anyone in mind or have a feeling when I said it, I was just tossing it out as a possibility.

I stopped paying much attention to that stuff. If someone it pretending to be something that may affect others I may perk up(we definitely have one fake surveillance employee) . However if someone claims they are a traveling blackjack carnie or something, I don't care.

I seem to remember b79's aliases asking similar type stuff. but he was always quick to respond especially on weekends.

It's kind of weird that you guys all think you know when a new poster is really a re-incarnated old poster and you know or think you know the writing and behavior styles of them. I really don't get into all that. I just don't care. I do spend too much time on the site in the political/social discussion, but that is fun for me as I am a bit of a political junkie.

But when I respond ad post to AP discussions, particularly blackjack, it is in the hopes that someone might find something I say useful and benefit from it. I am not even concerned about who the original poster is, whether it is some one re-incarnated, or someone that has already disappeared by the time I respond. I am not posting or responding solely for the benefit of that person. It is my hope that others, even others reading that don't participate or others reading weeks/months after the fact may benefit from my sharing of experiences and thoughts.

Quote: JustALuck

GWAE, that's understandable...at least there is a hope to make a living =)

http://nanotechgaming.com

Part of our mission is to enable hard-core professional-play at virtually unlimited bet denominations for the future of gambling.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/state-gaming-authorities-ok-skill-based-slot-machine-regulations

If you click through the photos on the LVRJ, our very own Stephen Riesenberger has a photo or two in the paper here and online.

We have been very active working with AGEM, the Regulators (who are very excited - click here to listen to the audio from Thursday's Nevada Gaming Control Board meeting where the Tony Alamo gives his overview and excitement for this legislation ), and even the other gaming manufacturers (we met with Greg Guffria and got a demonstration of his approach).

Our approach essentially is aimed at making the reality that you are looking for real. But right now, on video products anyway, the legal way to make money is limited, and casinos are typically exposed to losses from optimal play.

I hope this is enough to get you started. Feel free to ask more specific questions if you need more information about this.

We're showing a simple pinball game and a simple maze game at the show this year. Many other folks are talking about mixing video games with slots for "fun" but not as many are looking at making the process of getting good at the game the same as the process of developing a player advantage over the others attempting same at said location.

Quote: JustALuck

Exactly! I'm still here and reading carefully of many wonderful posts in this thread ... I went out to research on some information shared here ... it's gonna take a while for me to fully digest your shared wisdom ... I'm very grateful of this conversation!

Someone mentioned if you have to ask this question you probably don't have a chance. I was thinking the same thing. I realize everyone has to start somewhere. It just seems that anyone capable and serious would've did some research and came more prepared. He's possibility showed laziness.

He did ask about what books he should get, so that's a very good question(hope is not lost).

Perhaps a question like this would've been more. I've been reading about advantage play, and from what I gathered there are various ways that can actually show a profit. Games such as bonus slots VP, BJ, possibility craps. Is this true or just more BS? If possible how difficult is it? I cant imagine it's easy or everyone would be doing it. We have all heard the old saying, "the house always wins." But, I have been reading that individuals and teams actually have long term success.