Joined: Feb 27, 2013
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September 16th, 2015 at 4:27:46 PM permalink
Quote: Wizardofnothing

Takes lots of time and money and connections and networks to get what you are looking for. Most would never share and those that would- only with a select few

i don't understand why it's particularly valuable to know the value of a table game for rating purposes. couldn't you just play it for an hour, ask your average bet, see how much you get in express comps, and compare it to other games? express comps generated are a function of theo. if i knew the answer i'd give it to you. CET is very stingy, pinnacle rates you at about 66% of your average bet/hr, and i assume MGM is somewhere in the middle.
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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September 16th, 2015 at 4:48:17 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

I would not expect that.

That would give slot players a clearer way to guess the RTP of a particular machine.

Even if it's just as easy as "I play this one for $20 until it's gone, I get so much comps - I play this other one, I get less - the other one they must not make as much money on, so I have a better chance to win!"

Some companies in Nevada, and probably many other places, absolutely do this. Play a 99.7% NSUD and you will earn comps at about 1/4th the speed as if you play 98.9% DDB on the same machine.
Order from chaos
Joined: May 19, 2010
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September 16th, 2015 at 6:10:54 PM permalink
I have seen the personal notebook of someone who works in the pit and showed me how many player points per $5-hour average bet is awarded for each different table game.

As a general rule, the lower the LOWEST theoretical HA% bet on the table, the less comps per dollar bet you will get.

So just because you are betting high house edge bets on the craps table does not mean you are going to get rated better per dollar than if you played the pass line, and in some casinos, they make two mistakes that I know of. Only one of which can be exploited.

Mistake #1: reduced rating when you hedge your bets -- if you bet both red and black and nothing else on a roulette table, some places will rate you at "zero action" because they don't see how they can win (the idiots who make this claim). This is just something to watch out for because if you hedge to try to get player points without gambling they will generally not rate you properly (they will exclude rating from play without sufficient volatility).

Mistake #2: rating free odds bets; this only happens at a few places, and often not every employee at that place can and sometime do rate your action that does not carry a house advantage. So, for example, I have heard of a place that offers 10x odds but will rate up to 2x odds. So if you are getting comp'd according to 1/3rd of your theoretical losses, then you may be able to break even counting losses exploiting this loophole (on average, of course).

All this is just straight theory. And if you are playing just for the points, I suggest you go shopping instead.
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
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September 16th, 2015 at 6:22:37 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

So for your 3 hours of play you could probably get a $15 buffet comped (so long as they has your avg bet marked around $30).

Various Stations casinos used to advertise a buffet comp for only one hour with a $5 average bet -- find a pai gow table with other players and it might only cost you about $2 in ev (tip a few dollars and they may even send you free bets or match play coupons in the mail). I think they'll still usually give breakfast or lunch for an hour with a $10 average.

Plenty of others have similar requirements for cheap meals -- it really doesn't cost the casino much to let you eat there. Unfortunately Mandalay Bay will ask for quite a bit of action -- probably not deviating too much from 20% on theoretical loss

The best thing to do is play for 15 minutes, then ask
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
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September 16th, 2015 at 6:24:57 PM permalink
Quote: tongni

and i assume MGM is somewhere in the middle.

MGM casinos are actually quite good for table games -- not great, but not stingy either. It's possible to rack up a bunch of express comps.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
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September 16th, 2015 at 9:05:05 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Play a 99.7% NSUD and you will earn comps at about 1/4th the speed as if you play 98.9% DDB on the same machine.

I am reasonably aware of varying comp rates for video poker. I think that most video poker players who understand how to read a paytable and care about comps understand that there are varying levels, and it's often fairly easy to figure out that the comp rates are lower on higher theoretical return games.

I was specifically addressing the "slot machines" (video reel, reel, etc), where there isn't a readily decodable paytable.
May the cards fall in your favor.

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