Free Bet Limitation

Thanks for the nice comments, I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

Buzz, I'll see you and your US humour (note we use an extra 'u') at G2E!!!

Quote: NowTheSerpent

They're not good at math but should be, and they penalize me because I actually am. It's insulting.

u mad bro?

It's not about the EV of the bet itself - it's psychological. The idea is to make sure that the person using the bet actually gambles, because that way they're more likely to keep gambling.

Quote: Skunchle

Given that, does house limitation make any sense?

Yes, it makes sense to the management, therefore it makes sense. Doesn't make sense mathematically or from a customer service position but so what?

A lot of couples take the guaranteed win and then put the winnings into a slot machine or a flyer at the craps table.

Nothing wrong with a guaranteed straddle. No casino would ever send a man a coupon that read have a free buffet but don't bring your wife, yet the casino is perfectly willing to give you a match coupon and say don't let your wife jump on the same deal.

A given coupon has the exact same value no matter whether a "gambler" or a risk-averse "hedger" has it. The casino SHOULD prefer the hedger because hedge bets have a negative EV, so the outright gambler gets full value from the coupon while the hedger does not. The hedger is basically buying insurance to protect the value of his coupon, and like all insurance, it carries a cost in EV.

It's not so much that the casino bosses who forbid coupon hedging don't understand math as that they don't understand that if the purpose of a coupon is to generate action, then ALL such action should be welcomed. You offer a promotion--whether it's a casino coupon or a two-for-one offer for cans of soup at a grocery store--with the idea of getting people in the front door. Tracking what happens after that is a futile and stupid exercise. Some people will take the goodies and then turn around and leave; some will stay and become actual customers. Why sweat it?

The coupon itself has the same value, and that value is negative. No matter how stupidly you play it, that coupon is a liability. The only reason they're giving it out is to attract gamblers, and since hedging, especially a bad hedge, is by definition risk-averse behavior, it's the last thing they want to encourage. You don't need to track them after that, but a soft nudge to make sure the people you get in the door might actually buy something is a good idea. Every business that offers promotions has a variety of little checks like this - "one per customer," "with any purchase," "members only," etc., etc.

Quote: 24Bingo

It's not about the EV of the bet itself - it's psychological. The idea is to make sure that the person using the bet actually gambles, because that way they're more likely to keep gambling.

+1000

I really do not believe that the reason is to prevent hedging - I have spoken to many casino managers and acutally had a issue tonight with matchplay- the people that create the rules most of the time dont have a clue
for instance at a casino in pa - when you use the coupon in blackjack you only get paid 1-1 on blackjack - on a double you cannot double the coupon value- however on a split you can put up a second coupon if you have it-
they also have a rule that you must use it for player in baccarrat and not banker i was told this way there is no commission taken out- however you can use it in pai gow where they take commission- so clearly most people dont have a clue

Quote: Skunchle

For a free bet promotion, i.e. a certificate for say $100 that can be
played on a table game and pays back $100 on an even-money bet,
why do some casinos require that that bet on a roulette game
can only be played on RED or EVEN and not also BLACK and/or ODD.

A pit boss told me that it was to that prevent two people
from playing at the same spin, one RED and one BLACK.
But the expected value on two $100 free bets is the same
either way: $94.70.

Given that, does house limitation make any sense?

Of course it makes sense. Anyone who doesn't think so never operated a casino.

If you could bet both sides I know plenty of people who would AP the shit out of it.

The odds on roulette may not change but the odds of winning do change.

If I can only bet red then I may win or lose.

If I can bet both, I get someone to play opposite me and with a hedge on green I am guaranteed to win. The advantage is now in my favor, not the casinos.

BTW - this is especially important in Atlantic City where they have the surrender rule. If the ball landed on green, I not only win the money for the hedge but also fifty percent of the both the red and black (or I win the green and get back the vouchers for another spin depending on how the dealer correctly or incorrectly handles it).

So you can see how this could really affect a casinos bottom line.

huh??????