Blackjack House Edge

Hello Wizard,

I've recently visited a cardroom in Northern California. Their 8-deck blackjack games pay 6:5 for a blackjack (one exception: the suited King/Ace blackjack will be paid 2:1), dealer hit 17, players can double down any first 2 cards, double after split allowed, re-split aces allowed, insurance offered and late surrender offered. The dealers averagely cut off 2 decks. May I know the house's advantage percentages? Thanks a lot.

Quote: babycat

Hello Wizard,

I've recently visited a cardroom in Northern California. Their 8-deck blackjack games pay 6:5 for a blackjack (one exception: the suited King/Ace blackjack will be paid 2:1), dealer hit 17, players can double down any first 2 cards, double after split allowed, re-split aces allowed, insurance offered and late surrender offered. The dealers averagely cut off 2 decks. May I know the house's advantage percentages? Thanks a lot.

The Wizard can answer that question with his blackjack calculator. Using the rules you listed and allowing splitting to four hands, his calculator gives optimistic results of 1.8416% and realistic results of 1.8575%. To account for suited blackjacks you would subtract 2*(32/416)*(32/415)*(2-6/5) = 0.949% to get 0.893% and 0.908% for optimistic and realistic house edges, respectively.

However, do you also have to pay a fee to the cardroom before playing each hand?

Edit: The correction for suited blackjacks should be 2*(32/416)*(32/415)*(2-6/5)*(1-2*31*127/414/413) = 0.905% to allow for pushes with a dealer's blackjacks. The house edges would then be 0.936% and 0.952%.

Quote: ChesterDog

The Wizard can answer that question with his blackjack calculator. Using the rules you listed and allowing splitting to four hands, his calculator gives optimistic results of 1.8416% and realistic results of 1.8575%. To account for suited blackjacks you would subtract 2*(32/416)*(32/415)*(2-6/5) = 0.949% to get 0.893% and 0.908% for optimistic and realistic house edges, respectively.

However, do you also have to pay a fee to the cardroom before playing each hand?

My reasoning might be wrong, but I get a different result. Agreed, with all else being the same the described game would have a realistic house edge of 1.8575% with BJ paying 6 to 5 (120%). As per the The Wizard's calculator, changing the BJ payout to 3 to 2 (150%) changes the realistic house edge to 0.49952%. For the BJ payout twist, I reason 1 out of 16 BJ's will pay 2 to 1 with the other 15 paying 6 to 5. I average the BJ payout as (6/5*15 + 2/1)/16 = 125%, or 5 to 4. By fluffy linear interpolation I put the realistic house edge at about 1.8%. (Please, someone stomp on my reasoning if I am wrong.) If my reasoning holds, I wouldn't recommend you sit at that game.

I am interested in this variant too! BabyCat said the dealer HIT 17 (and not soft 17) - translates to dealer stand on 18 or more ! So, I assume this is favorable for the player and must change the basic strategy. (But I think the 6/ to 5 bjk payout make for it anyway.)

Quote: PlayHunter

I am interested in this variant too! BabyCat said the dealer HIT 17 (and not soft 17) - translates to dealer stand on 18 or more ! So, I assume this is favorable for the player and must change the basic strategy. (But I think the 6/ to 5 bjk payout make for it anyway.)

I believe BabyCat meant to say the dealer hits a soft 17 (H17).

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

Quote: ChesterDog

The Wizard can answer that question with his blackjack calculator. Using the rules you listed and allowing splitting to four hands, his calculator gives optimistic results of 1.8416% and realistic results of 1.8575%. To account for suited blackjacks you would subtract 2*(32/416)*(32/415)*(2-6/5) = 0.949% to get 0.893% and 0.908% for optimistic and realistic house edges, respectively.

However, do you also have to pay a fee to the cardroom before playing each hand?

My reasoning might be wrong, but I get a different result. Agreed, with all else being the same the described game would have a realistic house edge of 1.8575% with BJ paying 6 to 5 (120%). As per the The Wizard's calculator, changing the BJ payout to 3 to 2 (150%) changes the realistic house edge to 0.49952%. For the BJ payout twist, I reason 1 out of 16 BJ's will pay 2 to 1 with the other 15 paying 6 to 5. I average the BJ payout as (6/5*15 + 2/1)/16 = 125%, or 5 to 4. By fluffy linear interpolation I put the realistic house edge at about 1.8%. (Please, someone stomp on my reasoning if I am wrong.) If my reasoning holds, I wouldn't recommend you sit at that game.

I like your method! (But just change "1 out of 16 BJ's will pay 2 to 1" to "1 out of 4 BJ's will pay 2 to 1," and recalculate.)

Quote: ChesterDog

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

Quote: ChesterDog

The Wizard can answer that question with his blackjack calculator. Using the rules you listed and allowing splitting to four hands, his calculator gives optimistic results of 1.8416% and realistic results of 1.8575%. To account for suited blackjacks you would subtract 2*(32/416)*(32/415)*(2-6/5) = 0.949% to get 0.893% and 0.908% for optimistic and realistic house edges, respectively.

However, do you also have to pay a fee to the cardroom before playing each hand?

My reasoning might be wrong, but I get a different result. Agreed, with all else being the same the described game would have a realistic house edge of 1.8575% with BJ paying 6 to 5 (120%). As per the The Wizard's calculator, changing the BJ payout to 3 to 2 (150%) changes the realistic house edge to 0.49952%. For the BJ payout twist, I reason 1 out of 16 BJ's will pay 2 to 1 with the other 15 paying 6 to 5. I average the BJ payout as (6/5*15 + 2/1)/16 = 125%, or 5 to 4. By fluffy linear interpolation I put the realistic house edge at about 1.8%. (Please, someone stomp on my reasoning if I am wrong.) If my reasoning holds, I wouldn't recommend you sit at that game.

I like your method! (But just change "1 out of 16 BJ's will pay 2 to 1" to "1 out of 4 BJ's will pay 2 to 1," and recalculate.)

Why change from 16? 1/4 blackjacks will be suited, and 1/4 of those will include a king...

You're right! I missed the king requirement. Then I agree completely with BleedingChipsSlowly's answer for the house edge.

ChesterDog,

Thanks a lot for your help. I don't have to pay for a fee (called collection fee in calif cardrooms) to this cardroom's blackjack games. It's also no fee for 3-card poker and baccarat games. The only game they required a 1 dollar per hand collection fee in this cardroom is PaiGow Poker. This cardroom only have 10 tables located in Livermore, CA.

PlayHunter,

I'm sorry for getting people confused. I meant the dealer hit soft 17 and stand hard 17.

Thanks BleedingChipsSlowly,

Now I know the house has big edge so I won't come back to that cardroom.