Question regarding progressive payout on ultimate Texas Holdem table game.

First time poster here. I appreciate any feedback that can be provided.

My issue specially revolves around the $1 progressive payout on the ultimate Texas Holdem game (the one with the "trips" bet). Both my friend and I were playing today at the horseshoe casino in Cincinnati, Ohio today and ran into a very interesting situation. We were both playing the $1 progressive payout when I hit a full house. The dealer was ready to pay me the $50 bonus payout as the payout schedule listed was that very similar to the "Michigan progressive" listed on the WOO website. The dealer than stopped herself and noted that the progressive payouts were only for your hole cards and the 3 card flop. Needless to say, I was a little disappointed l, but I got a nice payout so we continued to play. The real issue came a few hands later when someone at the table was dealt a straight flush, again - not the first 5 cards. I brought up the issue directly with the dealer that there is no wording anywhere on the game that states it would be the first 5 cards. I told the player that hit it to not accept any chips until we had some sort of clarification. Based on getting 10% of the progressive (~5k) and a few hundred dollars, he agreed and we waited.... And waited. Eventually the floor manager showed up and was extremely curt in stating the same rules that were described to us by the dealer. I asked if he could provide it in writing, and he was unable to. He said the game was an IGN shuffle master and the rules and payouts were set by them and the Ohio gaming commission. He then told me that he would no longer hold up the game based on our complaint and required us to take our bets and continue to the next hand.

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this before? I sent an email to the Ohio gaming commission requesting it be looked into, but I have no idea if it would go anywhere. Based on playing different bonus/side bets it is always made clear in writing as to how the bet works and is paid out. I personally have seen a similar progressive bet at other casinos that do explicitly state the 5 card rule. It just seems like to me that they would have to honor any payout unless explicitly stated the way the bet pays and what cards are in play.

Any feedback is appreciated.

I don't play Texas hold 'em, I don't play Ultimate Texas hold 'em, ... I've just woken up and I've got this cup of coffee here I ain't touched yet 'cause .... well, lets just say you'd be afraid to touch my coffee too if you'd ever tasted any of it.

I'll try to get on the web and on WOO and see what is going on, but its the fault of the game designer and layout designer if the answer is not crystal clear.

I don't blame the Pit Boss for being pissed off at the delay, but he should never be pissed off at a confused player, he should seek to remove the source of the confusion and make things plain so it never happens again.

The electronic display doesn't point out its the first five cards? Most of these jackpots nowadays are linked to Mississippi Stud, Let it Ride, etc. It needs to be fixed obviously, and if it isn't in writing at the table or on the sign, the gaming commission should be contacted. If they will do anything...that's another story.

Quote: Ohio.gov Codes

3772-11-29 Payout for progressive table games.

(A) Each table game that includes progressive jackpots shall have a progressive meter visible to patrons. If any part of the distribution to the progressive jackpots is being used to fund a secondary jackpot, visible signage informing players of this supplemental distribution shall be placed in the immediate area of the table. The existence of progressive jackpots and the distributions to those jackpots shall be set forth in the "rules of the game" within a casino operator's internal controls for each game having a progressive jackpot. Each table game not meeting this distribution requirement shall be deemed an unauthorized casino game.

I'd call gaming, but the rule needs to be shown on the table, clearly.

Quote: boymimbo

I'd call gaming, but the rule needs to be shown on the table, clearly.

Looks like fine time.

I walked by the Hollywood St. Louis pits last night, and looked at all the Shufflemaster linked jackpot signs. Ultimate Texas Hold'em had a lot more fine print at the bottom than the other games, so much so that it was too small for me to read it from a distance. Unfortunately, it was busy and I didn't want to be the ass who stares at the sign while interfering with others' enjoyment. But "Four Card Poker" pointed out you used all 5 cards dealt to you for the bonus bet in slightly larger fine print. I assume Ultimate Texas Hold'em signs write something to the effect of "Bet pays with player's hole cards and flop only". I'll try to look again at a less busier time. If Cincinnati is stupid enough not to use the Shufflemaster signs, then I could see this being a problem. However, I'm pretty sure virtually every CET property uses these signs as well, no?

Quote: boymimbo

I'd call gaming, but the rule needs to be shown on the table, clearly.

It's probably on the sign's fine print already assuming they're using the Shufflemaster sign, but still worth calling gaming since the idiot pitboss couldn't produce the rules in writing as required by law.

They use the SHFL electronic sign? It should be at the bottom of the payout screen. It is pretty small and hard to see.

Quote: teddys

They use the SHFL electronic sign? It should be at the bottom of the payout screen. It is pretty small and hard to see.

I don't know if they do, but any casino that has this jackpot that I can remember uses it. And since it's a new CET property, I don't see them NOT using it either.

I frequently play at this casino and this game specifically. I have no idea where or if the rules are posted, but I KNOW you must hit any progressive winner on the 2 hole cards, and 3 card flop. I have seen it someplace, and most players/dealers do know this. However, Horseshoe Cincy being a new casino not all dealers are as up to speed as you would like and errors are made.


IF any combination of cards could be used to win a progressive jackpot in the UTH game, what happens when the Royal hits the board? 3b gets full jack pot, and each succeding player the "re-seed" money" ? Massive payout on the casino's part. There is a rule/law to prevent this. It just needs to be found.


Phydeaux