Video Keno and video poker

There is a theory that video keno machines (while not "fixed" so to say) will only pay a jackpot if the set payout percentage has not been met. The theory is that the machines are metered and that when the meter reaches a certain percentage of "coin in" the possibility of hitting a jackpot is more likely. I understand the "random number generator" but I also understand software programming to some extent. I believe a programmer could incorporate a series of "what-if" commands and achieve that result. That being said, would programming to that extent be in violation of gaming commission rules?

Yes, it would be a violation of any Class III regulations that I know of.

Quote: GrumpyLP

There is a theory that video keno machines (while not "fixed" so to say) will only pay a jackpot if the set payout percentage has not been met. The theory is that the machines are metered and that when the meter reaches a certain percentage of "coin in" the possibility of hitting a jackpot is more likely. I understand the "random number generator" but I also understand software programming to some extent. I believe a programmer could incorporate a series of "what-if" commands and achieve that result. That being said, would programming to that extent be in violation of gaming commission rules?

I think that what you are referring to here would be a very poor, but accidentally somewhat correct, understanding of the way a Class II VLT works.

The way that a Class II works, essentially, whether it be VP, Slot or Keno is that there is always a Keno/Bingo game going on in the background regardless of what game you are seeing on the screen, and it is the result of that game that determines your payout. The results also come from a central RNG that all of the players are playing at the same time.

The only difference being the payout percentages, a Class II VLT works very similarly to an actual lottery. You essentially have a fixed prize pool that is loaded into the machine and programmed to distribute based on x amount bet. A simple example would be a set of Class II's paying back at 90% in which there is a fixed prize pool of $9,000 based on $10,000 in total bets. Just like lottery tickets once they have been printed!

In any event, the RNG doesn't make anything more or less likely based on coin-in independently of other factors. Much like a printed lottery ticket, if you have one top prize instant ticket in the 10,000 tickets, buying 8,000 tickets without the top prize does not suddenly mean there are five top prize tickets.

Let's take my example, and for the sake of simplicity, say it is a machine in which you may only bet $1.00, regardless of the game. Your initial ER is 90%, which is .9 when expressed as a decimal. This reflects that there will be $10,000 in bets made which will return $9,000. In any event, if you lose on your first bet, (and are the only one betting) then your ER improves slightly on the next play by virtue of your loss on the previous play. Why? The reason is because there is still a prize pool of $9,000, but only $9,999 in bets needs to be made for the fixed pool to be, "Drained," so your ER on the next spin is .900090009 or 90.009%!!!

Is the jackpot itself more likely with more coin-in?

It depends. The fixed prize pool is not only one of cash, but it is also one of results. In other words, and again just like scratch-offs, once you receive a result, then that result is eliminated from the pool. Basically, since it is a fixed prize pool, the jackpot could be more likely if it has not already been hit simply because you have eliminated a non-jackpot result from the pool.

Can you play at an advantage?

Yes and no. Technically, you could play at a huge advantage, but it would require you to know a few things:

1.) How much is in the prize pool.

2.) How much money in bets equates to the prize pool being fully depleted.

3.) What are the results of every bet that has been previously made into this prize pool?

Most of these Class II's cover multiple locations, and they ALL cover multiple machines...by their very nature. The point is that you are simply not going to know the result of every bet to know whether or not you are at an advantage at any given time.

I could have a location with six Class II machines being all that are linked up to the central RNG, same $9,000/$10,000 parameters. You could get absolutely pounded yourself and witness others get absolutely pounded for $1,000/each, (assume that they have hit some break-evens and small pays that they have fed back into the machine) but you are still not necessarily at an advantage for not knowing what happened before that. If the top prize is $5,000 and some guy walked in there and hit for $5,000 jackpot on his first Keno card, then what remains in the machine is $4,000/$9,999 for a return of .40004 or 40.004%. Even if each of the players got pounded for $1,000/each without hitting even a break-even pay, that is what it would take just to get you to 100%+ ER.

In short, yes, everytime you lose on a Class II Keno machine your liklihood of winning and ER have just become infinitesimally better for the next spin, but no amount of losing can put you at a known necessary advantage or make it so that you know you are more likely to hit the big one. Someone may have hit it already.

In other words, highly doubtful.

The summation of that theory means that the game in question is using a "Secondary Program" to determine the outcome. This is illegal in Nevada, and in Jurisdiction that cite Nevada Gaming Law as the method of operation of such a game. Therefore, in Jurisdictions that DO NOT recognize Nevada Gaming Law as the Method of Operation, such a Secondary Program can legally exist.

In short, if the gaming program (NOT the RNG!) can be modified without due notice, its in violation of Nevada State Gaming Regulations (this statement covers Legal gaming that can change the payouts according to denomination... within that range of denominations, no alterations to the chance of a win or loss are allowed, only the payment).

If the RNG is altered to bias the chance of a win or loss, such RNG is NOT legal.

If both the RNG and the gaming program alter the chance of a win or loss, the system is illegal.

This represents my understanding of a rather complex set of regulations distilled down to common language.

CAVEAT EMPTOR

Quote: Mission146

I think that what you are referring to here would be a very poor, but accidentally somewhat correct, understanding of the way a Class II VLT works.

The way that a Class II works, essentially, whether it be VP, Slot or Keno is that there is always a Keno/Bingo game going on in the background regardless of what game you are seeing on the screen, and it is the result of that game that determines your payout. The results also come from a central RNG that all of the players are playing at the same time.

The simpliest way to describe a Class II machine is that it is no difference than a pull tab. Every time you hit the bet or spin button, it's effectively the same as buying a pull tab. The fact that a jackpot hasn't been hit is irrelevent since all the "pull tabs" have already been printed per se.

Whenever I go to a casino with Class II machines, I tell the patron that it's more fun to look at the "bingo card" and not at the slot machines since a winning combination on the bingo card results in a winning combination on the slot machine.

Quote: GrumpyLP

There is a theory that video keno machines (while not "fixed" so to say) will only pay a jackpot if the set payout percentage has not been met. The theory is that the machines are metered and that when the meter reaches a certain percentage of "coin in" the possibility of hitting a jackpot is more likely.

But you don't actually believe such nonsense do you?
Customer A, a True Believer: "Oh, you go ahead and play for awhile, I'll be back later" (when its more likely to be in pay out mode)
Customer B, a True Believer: "Oh, you go ahead and play for awhile, I'll be back later". (when its more likely to be in pay out mode).
Owner, tearing his hair out, "Oh, will someone please play the darn machine, its got this secret meter and I can't go home and sleep nights with all these young slot technicians around who could re-set the meter on me and clean me out overnight".

For Class II machines on Sovereign Indian Terrority, you might want to check out this link:
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012-09-21/html/2012-23161.htm

And read section "Sec. 547.14 What are the minimum technical standards for electronic random number generation?" very carefully.

Here I quote:
"(5) The Class II gaming system must neither adjust the RNG process
or game outcomes based on the history of prizes obtained in previous
games nor use any reflexive software or secondary decision that affects
the results shown to the player or game outcome."

That should be the answer with respect to Class II games in Indian casino. Short answer is "NO". Like I posted earlier, playing a game/wager on a Class II device is akin to playing a pull tab.

Good luck.