"Teases"?
Quote: 24BingoIs there any truth to the idea that slot machines are programmed to "tease" the customer with "near misses"? There seems to be the implication in a number of Q&As that slot reels are independent, but I hear often from people who seem fairly sane that the machines are set up specifically to do that. Is it just that near misses are more likely than hits? Or maybe also that the high-paying symbols are spread out as evenly as possible among reels 2+?
There is absolutely truth in that statement.
The way it works is with the reel assignments. I'm going to use my, patent pending, "Simple Sevens," example machine to illustrate my point. If I have a, "Simple Seven," machine with 30 symbols per reel and I put six 7's on the first reel, three on the second, and one on the third:
6/30 * 3/30 * 1/30 = 0.00066666666667 1/0.00066666666667 = 1:1500 spins in which you will hit the jackpot.
However, you can expect to see 7's on Reels 1+2 only
6/30 * 3/30 = .02 1/.02 = 1:50 spins
Reels 2+3 Only
3/30 * 1/30 = 0.00333333333333 1/0.00333333333333 = 1:300
Reels 1+3 Only
6/30 * 1/30 = 0.00666666666667 1/0.00666666666667 = 1:150
In 1500 total spins, then, you will hit the jackpot once, but you will see Two Sevens on the payline:
1500/50 + 1500/300 + 1500/150 =
30 + 5 + 10 = 45 Times
In other words you will see two sevens on the payline, in total, once every 1500/45 = 33.333- spins.
The answer to the question is, both! Near misses are more likely than hits AND they are designed to keep the player spinning because the player sees Two Sevens and thinks he/she is, "Close," to hitting the jackpot Three Sevens!
If you are playing a slot machine with three reels, the higher paying symbols will generally be weighted to the first and second paylines because we read from left to right. It also boosts the player's excitement as he/she is waiting for the third reel to stop spinning. The reason for this is because, if you blank on the first reel you have already lost. There's no more excitement on that spin.
Let's say it's a mechanical reel machine with 3 reels, each having 10 possible symbols to stop on.
If you got the same symbol on the first 2 reels, you'd have a 1 in 10 chance of getting it on the third reel, but the other 9 times you'd get a near miss. Nothing special needs to be programmed for this to occur.
I would think a completely digital machine using RNG's would exhibit the same behavior.
Quote: MonkeyMonkeyI don't know much about slots but I don't think that's necessary to address this issue.
Let's say it's a mechanical reel machine with 3 reels, each having 10 possible symbols to stop on.
If you got the same symbol on the first 2 reels, you'd have a 1 in 10 chance of getting it on the third reel, but the other 9 times you'd get a near miss. Nothing special needs to be programmed for this to occur.
I would think a completely digital machine using RNG's would exhibit the same behavior.
There's more to dealing Blackjack than just throwing out the starting hands and doing what the player says, as you have shown us in your articulate and well-thought out posts on the subject, and there is more to the Slots than that, as well.
For example, if you have said ten-stops-per-reel machine, but there is only one Jackpot symbol on each reel, then there are going to be less near-misses. Furthermore, an equal number of near misses will be missed on the first or second reel as opposed to the third reel, so these misses will not have as much as an excitement-inciting impact on the player because they have already lost on that spin before the third reel displays the result. It is very important on a single payline machine that the miss happen on the third reel more often than the other reels. The player feels as though he/she, "Almost hit it," you don't feel like you, "Almost hit it," as much if you miss on the first reel. Even the uneducated player realizes (when the 7 comes on the second/third reel) that he never had a chance.
It's true that nothing special needs programmed for your near miss to occur, but that just makes the machine...nothing special!!! Near-misses add to the excitement, the build-up, the anticipation, the hope that the jackpot is right around the corner! You need a good many near misses, but not too many, lest the player think the machine is ripping him/her off. If 1/2 spins was 7-7-Nothing, the player would probably never go to that casino again.
The video slot machines do exhibit the same behavior. The reel assignments are also set in such a way as to (hopefully) maximize excitement. When you maximize excitement, you maximize revenue.
Quote: 24BingoYou seem to be missing my point - obviously, if the reels are independent, there are going to be a lot more "teases" than hits, just like you're going to see more aces than blackjacks. I was wondering about the rumor that the machines were specifically designed to "tease" the guest, or if this was just a consequence of that fact?
Yes, specifically designed. Not a rumor, fact.
Quote: aceofspades
Thanks, Ace, great read!
Quote: 24BingoYou seem to be missing my point - obviously, if the reels are independent, there are going to be a lot more "teases" than hits, just like you're going to see more aces than blackjacks. I was wondering about the rumor that the machines were specifically designed to "tease" the guest, or if this was just a consequence of that fact?
While I have no proof, I am convinced a few slot machines I've played have a better chance of hitting the bonus symbol on the 2nd reel vs the 4th reel(in this case I'm playing a machine that requires something on reels 2/3/4 to get to the bonus. I don't know if this is the case or not, but I'll assume it is for my point.
Would you consider this just random chance or would you call this designed to tease? They are intentionally making it look like you are very close to the bonus. This isn't just the random chance, they designed it so it will have that slow 3rd symbol spin more often than is mathmatically possible if all reels were equal.
Quote: soulhunt79Quote: 24BingoYou seem to be missing my point - obviously, if the reels are independent, there are going to be a lot more "teases" than hits, just like you're going to see more aces than blackjacks. I was wondering about the rumor that the machines were specifically designed to "tease" the guest, or if this was just a consequence of that fact?
While I have no proof, I am convinced a few slot machines I've played have a better chance of hitting the bonus symbol on the 2nd reel vs the 4th reel(in this case I'm playing a machine that requires something on reels 2/3/4 to get to the bonus. I don't know if this is the case or not, but I'll assume it is for my point.
Would you consider this just random chance or would you call this designed to tease? They are intentionally making it look like you are very close to the bonus. This isn't just the random chance, they designed it so it will have that slow 3rd symbol spin more often than is mathmatically possible if all reels were equal.
Plus, putting a bonus symbol in the third spot lessens the chance you'll get a third symbol you need to complete a payline. You'll get the first and second frequently, but they lessen your chance of getting a non-bonus payout. It's no accident.
I have a friend who is constantly saying things like, "Oh! If the 7 had been on this line instead of that line I would've won a thousand dollars," or, "If that stupid cherry hadn't been there I would've had the jackpot," or "If I hadn't lowered my bet I would've won $200 instead of only $10."
My stock answer to her is, "Yeah, and if my grandmother had balls she'd be my grandfather." :)
Quote: soulhunt79
While I have no proof, I am convinced a few slot machines I've played have a better chance of hitting the bonus symbol on the 2nd reel vs the 4th reel(in this case I'm playing a machine that requires something on reels 2/3/4 to get to the bonus. I don't know if this is the case or not, but I'll assume it is for my point.
Would you consider this just random chance or would you call this designed to tease? They are intentionally making it look like you are very close to the bonus. This isn't just the random chance, they designed it so it will have that slow 3rd symbol spin more often than is mathmatically possible if all reels were equal.
It is designed that way. I have something that I am (hopefully) conducting very relevant to this thread in the works if I don't get myself banned from the casino, but I'm not going to go into any specifics because it will be at least a month from now. I emphasize, AT LEAST. It's a big project.
In any event, if you would kindly peruse my earlier post about the, "Simple Sevens," machine, the concept for the 2nd-4th Reel Free Games is EXACTLY 100% the same. If you hit Free Games on QuickHits, but not on the 2nd Reel, it doesn't ding, it doesn't do anything to draw the player's attention to it. Why? The player has already failed to get it if it is not on the second reel.
It dings on 2nd, and louder when 2nd+3rd.
I find myself getting sucked in, it's infectious, brilliant machine!!! "Three in a row? I missed three in a row? It must be coming, now!!!" I know better than that! I study these things, I take notes! We WANT to believe the Free Games are coming, and our brains are DESIGNED to detect patterns in things. We even think that we hit Free Games shortly after near misses because that is when we are specifically looking for them to be a result of the spin, so it ends up being self-reenforcing. Beautiful work by Bally Technologies. If we hit the Free Games absent any near misses, we are pleased because it is a, "Surprise." When you have the near misses, though, you start expecting it. If that expectation gets fulfilled, just once, it becomes reenforced just a little bit more!
Yes, they did design it that way. Maximize excitement, maximize entertainment, maximize revenue.
Quote: FarFromVegas
Plus, putting a bonus symbol in the third spot lessens the chance you'll get a third symbol you need to complete a payline. You'll get the first and second frequently, but they lessen your chance of getting a non-bonus payout. It's no accident.
Strictly speaking, that's not true. Your chances of completing the payline for Three Sevens, for example, are the same if you replace the bonus symbol with anything except a Seven or a Wild. Furthermore, with some games, you need a bonus symbol on the first/last payline. The design of those games is such that you willl hit that symbol a good bit on the first and it will keep you on the edge of your seat while the other four reels complete spinning, it has nothing to do with them preventing you having a paying symbol on the first payline.
Quote: tsmithI once read something somewhere, it might have been here, that the brain reacts to near misses almost the same way it reacts to wins. Same adrenalin, same endorphins, etc.
I have a friend who is constantly saying things like, "Oh! If the 7 had been on this line instead of that line I would've won a thousand dollars," or, "If that stupid cherry hadn't been there I would've had the jackpot," or "If I hadn't lowered my bet I would've won $200 instead of only $10."
My stock answer to her is, "Yeah, and if my grandmother had balls she'd be my grandfather." :)
AceofSpades was kind enough to link us to a research paper on Page 1 that substantially describes this very thing. If you read it, I am sure you will enjoy it.
Quote: Mission146Quote: 24BingoYou seem to be missing my point - obviously, if the reels are independent, there are going to be a lot more "teases" than hits, just like you're going to see more aces than blackjacks. I was wondering about the rumor that the machines were specifically designed to "tease" the guest, or if this was just a consequence of that fact?
Yes, specifically designed. Not a rumor, fact.
Didn't there use to be something in the Nevada Gaming Regulations that required each reel to be independent of the others? Now, all it says is, "The mathematical probability of a symbol appearing in a position in any game outcome must be constant." Assuming a 20-symbol reel with, say, 100 virtual stops per reel (so there are 1,000,000 possible "logical" positions distributed among the 8000 "physical" results), can the machine assign 50 of the 1,000,000 logical results to "jackpot, jackpot, just above the jackpot", 50 to "jackpot, just above the jackpot, jackpot", and 50 to "jackpot, jackpot, just above the jackpot" (in this case, 150 near misses), without having to assign 2500 to "jackpot, just above the jackpot, just above the jackpot" (since, on reels 2 and 3, "just above the jackpot" would be 50 times as likely as "jackpot")? After all, on any spin, the probability of the symbol just above the jackpot symbol on reel 3 being on the pay line has the same probability as on any other spin - it just so happens that it's more likely when reels 1 and 2 have the jackpot symbol on the pay line. Or does "in any game outcome" mean something that I am missing?
If we are talking about a single-payline, three-reel machine, then there is no, "Just above the jackpot." How it works is that, let's say a Jackpot symbol on the third reel is Reel Assignment 29, and Reel Assignments 30-55 are all blanks on the RNG. If the RNG hits a result between 30-55, then a blank will show up on the payline, however, there are not that many consecutive blank displays on the reel. It will display (above and below) the next closest symbols up and down that are not blanks. It is for that reason that you end up with a Jackpot symbol, "Near-Miss," above the payline when the RNG could have been 30 (numerically close, though no more likely) or 50 (numerically nowhere near the jackpot) and still display the jackpot above.
Quote: Mission146If we are talking about a single-payline, three-reel machine, then there is no, "Just above the jackpot." How it works is that, let's say a Jackpot symbol on the third reel is Reel Assignment 29, and Reel Assignments 30-55 are all blanks on the RNG. If the RNG hits a result between 30-55, then a blank will show up on the payline, however, there are not that many consecutive blank displays on the reel. It will display (above and below) the next closest symbols up and down that are not blanks. It is for that reason that you end up with a Jackpot symbol, "Near-Miss," above the payline when the RNG could have been 30 (numerically close, though no more likely) or 50 (numerically nowhere near the jackpot) and still display the jackpot above.
I understand that - that is why I differentiated between "physical" stops and "logical" ones.
Your description implies that there is a separate number generated for each reel - using my example, a number from 0 to 999,999 would be converted into three numbers from 0-99 (e.g. the number 123,456 becomes 12, 34, and 56).
Let's assume that each reel has 100 numbers assigned to it, one of which stops on the jackpot symbol and 10 of which stop on the symbol that is one above the jackpot symbol on the physical reel. If each reel is independent, then, of the 1,000,000 possible values, 10 of them are "jackpot, jackpot, one above", 10 are "jackpot, one above, jackpot, jackpot", and 10 are "one above, jackpot, jackpot"; however, 100 of them are "one above, one above, jackpot", 100 are "one above, jackpot, one above", and 100 are "jackpot, one above, one above." If the reels are not independent, then 30 of the 1,000,000 numbers can be assigned among the three "near miss" positions, but you wouldn't have to assign any, much less 300, of them to the "one jackpot and two off-by-one" results.
What I was asking was, is it still a requirement that each reel's "number" be independent of the other reels?
Quote: ThatDonGuyI understand that - that is why I differentiated between "physical" stops and "logical" ones.
Your description implies that there is a separate number generated for each reel - using my example, a number from 0 to 999,999 would be converted into three numbers from 0-99 (e.g. the number 123,456 becomes 12, 34, and 56).
Let's assume that each reel has 100 numbers assigned to it, one of which stops on the jackpot symbol and 10 of which stop on the symbol that is one above the jackpot symbol on the physical reel. If each reel is independent, then, of the 1,000,000 possible values, 10 of them are "jackpot, jackpot, one above", 10 are "jackpot, one above, jackpot, jackpot", and 10 are "one above, jackpot, jackpot"; however, 100 of them are "one above, one above, jackpot", 100 are "one above, jackpot, one above", and 100 are "jackpot, one above, one above." If the reels are not independent, then 30 of the 1,000,000 numbers can be assigned among the three "near miss" positions, but you wouldn't have to assign any, much less 300, of them to the "one jackpot and two off-by-one" results.
What I was asking was, is it still a requirement that each reel's "number" be independent of the other reels?
I'm going to answer the last question, yes.
In other words, the RNG(s) must be a numerical value for each reel and go to that value. This does mean that you cannot have an RNG that simply assigns numbers to final results based on the reel combinations and then goes straight to the result. I don't think that there would be any effective difference between one or the other. They may have decided that the latter is somehow deceptive, but the former isn't, I don't know.
Quote: aceofspades
Very interesting read...thanks Ace.
They mentioned that some people consult books of lucky numbers. I am willing to sell my version for just $10.99 + S&H.
As a teaser here's a sample;
Page 1. "1"
Page 2. "2"
Page 3. "3"
Page 4. [You've got buy it to see...]
I can't give the whole thing away, but that may get you started on a few of the lower numbers. The first 36 pages (and the special "0" and "00" appendices) are 100% guaranteed for roulette wins... yup, 100% guaranteed!
PM me for more info.
