Which job is more physical?

Wiz had a thread on tip gambling a $20 tip with the cocktail waitress, and a comparison was made between the waitress and a dealer, with expectations towards receiving a tip. That got me thinking about the two jobs. I'm not trying to start a war, but should a dealer role expect the same type of tip frequency as a cocktail waitress?
How about total tips received for a shift?

I voted for the cocktail waitress cuz I used to wait tables and it was pretty physically draining. Sometimes your just go, go, go for hours on end non-stop. People don't realize how hard it is to be a server. It looks easy but you have a lot of responsibilities and have to act quickly and remember a lot of stuff. I've never really cocktail waitressed but I'm sure it's almost as hard as waiting tables.

And I have to confess that I rarely tip when I play games. I know that it's one of the Wizards top 10 commandments but I never understood why I have to tip them. I know he says that it's cuz they just make minimum wage but it just seems weird. If I had to tip every time I play then it would make me want to quit playing because those tips could get really expensive over the long run. That's the only commandment I don't agree with.

The cocktail servers definitely work physically harder. Dealing jobs require constant focus and there are high negative consequences to mistakes so they are challenging in a different way. In casinos where drinks are free I think the waitresses get a lot more tips. People are feeling generous towards the waitress because they are getting somethinig "free." The only dealers that have an expectation of a tip every hand are poker dealers. They also keep their own tips in most places which they have in common with the cocktail waitresses, unlike table game dealers.

What is fair or should be expected is a different question. Tipping generally has a very low correlation with the amount of work being performed. Does the fancy restaurant waitress serving your $200 dinner work 20 times more than the one serving your $10 breakfast? Same thing with parking valets or bellman. The tip amount has more to do with the type of clientele and tradition than with the difficulty of the job.

Quote: HotBlonde

And I have to confess that I rarely tip when I play games. I know that it's one of the Wizards top 10 commandments but I never understood why I have to tip them. I know he says that it's cuz they just make minimum wage but it just seems weird. If I had to tip every time I play then it would make me want to quit playing because those tips could get really expensive over the long run. That's the only commandment I don't agree with.

I'm probably not going to convince you to change your ways but if you can't afford to tip you probably shouldn't be gambling. I admit I would feel better about tipping if I got better service. It is a rare table game dealer that increases my enjoyment by being pleasant and showing some personality. When I do encounter one I tip more and feel great about it, but I know this makes no sense because the tips are pooled.

Poker players are some of the cheapest people in the casino but generally everyone will tip at least $1/pot. If those grumpy old nits can cough it up I think you can too.

My vote goes to the cocktail waitress.

I agree with Hot Blonde about tipping dealers. Why do we have to tip them? The casino should pay them more than minimum wage. If nobody tipped, the casino would be forced to pay them more, or nobody would want to be a dealer. Just playing a negative expectation game is enough- we shouldn't also subsidize their wages.

For the record, I do tip dealers, but always feel like I shouldn't. On the other hand, I always tip cocktail waitresses $2 p/beer; and waitresses at a restaurant get 15%-25%.

Waitresses may be paid less than the usual minimum wage, in which case tipping is clearly called for. Dealers are always paid at least the minimum wage.

I don't subscribe to the school of thought that you should always tip a certain %. The main factor for me is whether I feel I'm getting good service and good value (sure the waiter doesn't cook it, but he has a choice in where to work), and whether my tip matters.

So I generally tip more in smaller establishments, and especially more if they offer better than fair value (on gambling, booze, food... anything). If in a larger establishment and it didn't provide fair value, I don't feel obligated to tip more than the change, or anything at all if service was less than satisfactory.

Quote: MakingBook

Just playing a negative expectation game is enough- we shouldn't also subsidize their wages.

Great point.

When I read on a thread on here about the "expectation" to tip the person who gives me a hand pay on a slot machine it really aggitated me. If I'm required to have a person hand me my money why in the hell does that mean that person deserves a tip? For what? Giving me my money? Absolutely ridiculous.

And I worked in the service industry from the age of 19 to the age of 31 so tips were a big part of my income. But you've got to draw the line somewhere, honestly. It reminds me of an episode on Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry David was at a hotel and there was something wrong with the air conditioner or something and he called the front desk and they sent a mechanic up who fixed it and then stood there afterwards and expected Larry to tip him.

Also I was at a friend's house once when the cable guy came over to do something and when he was leaving she told him to wait a second and she went and got some money and gave him a 5 dollar bill. Tipping the cable guy? My cousin works for DirecTV and he told me that they're not supposed to accept tips. But that cable guy accepted it and went on his way. When I used to bag groceries at a grocery store I was told that we were not allowed to accept tips and would not accept them after helping people with their stuff to their cars when they'd offer to tip me. And oftentimes when I check into a hotel room I opt to carry my own luggage to my room so I don't have to tip anyone.

I always tip a waitress and only tip a dealer
if they haven't been a jerk. Many of them
are rude and distant, not a good attitude
if you expect tips.

If you tip a "good" dealer, aren't you also tipping the "jerk" dealer an equal share? I'm assuming they share tips (at least that's what I'm told).

Quote: MakingBook

If you tip a "good" dealer, aren't you also tipping the "jerk" dealer

He's costing them (good dealers) money and they usually know
it. If you read the dealer forums, the good dealers
know they're carrying the pissy dealers and they
resent the hell out of it.

Quote: jml24

Poker players are some of the cheapest people in the casino but generally everyone will tip at least $1/pot. If those grumpy old nits can cough it up I think you can too.

I must be playing at different places...Almost every hand gets $1 and occasionally $5. It's also pretty rare to see a poker player not tip a waitress.

Quote: MakingBook

If you tip a "good" dealer, aren't you also tipping the "jerk" dealer an equal share? I'm assuming they share tips (at least that's what I'm told).

Varies by locale. In Vegas the tips are pooled, in some other places dealers carry around their own tip box and get to keep them.

Quote: RaleighCraps

I'm not trying to start a war, but should a dealer role expect the same type of tip frequency as a cocktail waitress?
How about total tips received for a shift?

I haven't been a cocktail waitress, but I have lately done some banquet service and know how hard it is to serve people that way (chopped mandatory tope there, nice.) Also have trained in casino-level craps; and dealt craps, blackjack, and roulette (once) for thje party nights. So here is my take.

The cocktail waitress does a lot of walking/borderline running. The dealers stand in place. To me standing in place is harder, to others walking is a pain. That is a purely subjective argument. What is not debatable is that being a dealer is far less natural egronomically and far more prone to repetitive motion pain and injury. OTOH the cocktail waitress is more "on her own" in dealing with customers where a dealer has security and a whole pit supervisory crew to help in disputes. I think that it is mostly a matter of personal preference and unless you find a waitress-turned-dealer either side will defend their own.

Mentally the waitress is a memory job, simple as that. In some states line NV she may not even have to collect as drinks are comped. She probably doesn't make the drinks and has a procedure to follow same as dealers in the form of how to order and track-pattern to cover all areas.

The dice dealer has it hardest. They have procedures but some leeway in how to make a payout yet are expected to do it fast and efficient. They have 95 bets to know, they must be able to deal either base or stick. BJ, Roulette, and carnival games are about 1/3 as hard. Doubt that? Dice training is at least twice as long as anything else.

That all being said, they should be tipped equivalent. Dealers take say $5-10 per hour and tip at once or over time. I get a red broken to whites and play a hand "for the boys" as I feel like it. No pattern, but I do keep some for when I am the shooter. BJ just when I feel like it. For a waitress, I just tip $1-2 per drink when I order. I rarely drink even free drinks while playing, however. I prefer to keep my head clear.

And sorry, HB, "I can't afford to tip" is no excuse. I do agree there is a limit and tipping the cable guy and room engineer is crazy. But dealers and waitresses are to be tipped. Can't tip? Play slots.

Quote: AZDuffman

The cocktail waitress does a lot of walking/borderline running.

And don't forget they are required to work in heels.

Quote: HotBlonde

And don't forget they are required to work in heels.

And skimpy outfits in air-conditioned buildings.

Quote: HotBlonde

And don't forget they are required to work in heels.

True, but I only give part sympathy. The discomfort I see so many women willingly go thru for shoes is amazing.

Quote: AZDuffman

True, but I only give part sympathy. The discomfort I see so many women willingly go thru for shoes is amazing.

Yes but most of those women you're refering to do it cuz they want to not cuz it's a requirement and they'll lose their jobs if they don't.

Quote: HotBlonde

Yes but most of those women you're refering to do it cuz they want to not cuz it's a requirement and they'll lose their jobs if they don't.

I'd still Bet at least half the waitresses wear uncomfortable shoes on their off time. I mean even the old nun who taught me in sixth grade freely admitted she was a sucker for fancy shoes.

Dealers in Las Vegas make $7.25/hr if they are offered benefits, $8.25 if they are not. HB you cant even spare $5 at the end of your session? I say at least give something unless the dealer is not creating a fun game. If they do not say thank you for the tip I suggest complaining to the shift manager. Tipping the dealers is just the way the industry is set up, but it does seem to balance out between stiffs like you (HB) and generous players.