Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1388
  • Posts: 23315
December 11th, 2011 at 11:27:03 AM permalink
Here is a preview of my latest blog entry on Iguazu Falls.

As always, I welcome all comments, questions, and corrections.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
ChesterDog
ChesterDog
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 964
December 11th, 2011 at 12:11:52 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

...Iguazu Falls lay near the intersection...



(The verb should be in present tense instead of past tense. So it should be "Iguazu Falls lie near the intersection...")
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
  • Threads: 310
  • Posts: 8606
December 11th, 2011 at 1:43:34 PM permalink
Quote: ChesterDog

(The verb should be in present tense instead of past tense. So it should be "Iguazu Falls lie near the intersection...")



"Iguazu Falls lie near the intersection..."
or
"Iguazu Falls lies near the intersection..." ?

Honest question. Seems to me the Falls are singular.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1388
  • Posts: 23315
December 11th, 2011 at 1:49:37 PM permalink
Quote: ChesterDog

(The verb should be in present tense instead of past tense. So it should be "Iguazu Falls lie near the intersection...")



Hmm. While I'm not still 100% on the difference between lie and lay, here is one definition of lay from dictionary.com:

37. the way or position in which a thing is laid or lies: the lay of the land.

This seems similar in usage to mine.

Also, I looked at The Proper Use of "Lay" and Lie". In part, the writer says, Obviously there will be some confusion when it is correct to say, "I lay in bed all day," to describe what you did yesterday or last week, but incorrect to say, "I will lay here until the headache goes away, " or "Why don't you lay here a while?

I think my usage was similar to "I lay in bed all day."

Your response?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
DorothyGale
DorothyGale
Joined: Nov 23, 2009
  • Threads: 40
  • Posts: 639
December 11th, 2011 at 2:35:32 PM permalink
"I'm afraid all I know is the close at 5 p.m."

the -> they
"Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness!"
ChesterDog
ChesterDog
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 964
December 11th, 2011 at 2:35:45 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

...I think my usage was similar to "I lay in bed all day."...



Yes. It's just a matter of verb tense.

Last month, when you visited the falls they lay near the intersection of Brazil, Argentina, and Paraguay. Today, they still do. (They still lie at that location.)

By the way, this brings to mind Mitch Hedberg's bit, "I used to do drugs. I still do. I used to, too."
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1388
  • Posts: 23315
December 11th, 2011 at 2:44:12 PM permalink
Quote: ChesterDog

Last month, when you visited the falls they lay near the intersection of Brazil, Argentina, and Paraguay. Today, they still do. (They still lie at that location.)



I'm not using lay as the past tense of lie. I'm using it to mean to put/locate something somewhere, in the present tense. As in, "Please lay the book on the table."
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 433
  • Posts: 25303
December 11th, 2011 at 2:46:53 PM permalink
Lay and lie are tough. But since lie is the present tense, usually,
and lay is the past, in this case you're talking about the present,
so lie would be proper. You're going to lie down before dinner,
but last night you laid in your bed. 'Lay Lady Lay' is incorrect,
it should have been 'Lie Lady Lie'.

But it doesn't make that much difference, they're so similar that
most people can't see the nuances. Lay was fine to use here,
even though improper.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
ChesterDog
ChesterDog
Joined: Jul 26, 2010
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 964
December 11th, 2011 at 3:17:56 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm not using lay as the past tense of lie. I'm using it to mean to put/locate something somewhere, in the present tense. As in, "Please lay the book on the table."



"To lay" is a transitive verb, which means that it has an object. "To lie" is intransitive; it has no object. The past tense of lay is laid, and the past tense of lie is lay.

God said to himself, "Where should I lay the falls? I guess I'll lay them somewhere in South America." He laid them near the intersection of present day Argentina, Brazil, and Paraguay; and that's where they lie today.

By the way, I love your article! I had heard of the falls but had no idea where they were.
pacomartin
pacomartin
Joined: Jan 14, 2010
  • Threads: 649
  • Posts: 7895
December 11th, 2011 at 3:36:16 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm not using lay as the past tense of lie. I'm using it to mean to put/locate something somewhere, in the present tense. As in, "Please lay the book on the table."



Lay is both a present tense of a transitive verb, and the past tense of the intransitive verb lie.

Type Infinitive Definition Simple Present Simple Past Past Participle Present Participle
transitive to lay to put something down lay(s) laid laid laying
intransitive to lie to rest or recline lie(s) lay lain lying


Quote: ChesterDog

(The verb should be in present tense instead of past tense. So it should be "Iguazu Falls lie near the intersection...")



ChesterDog is correct in giving his recommendation, but he is supplying the wrong grammatical reason. You should use "lie" because you have no direct object and the verb should be intransitive. You can only lay down a book (direct object is the book).

Quote: Wizard

37. the way or position in which a thing is laid or lies: the lay of the land.
This seems similar in usage to mine.



This example is not appropriate becase in lay of the land the word "lay" is being used as a noun. It is has no tense. You are still using it in your sentence as a verb. But since you mean to use an intransitive verb in the present tense, the correct verb is "lie".

  • Jump to: