Let's really see
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| | 8 votes (88.88%) |
9 members have voted
March 11th, 2011 at 7:04:04 AM
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Let's say you partner with someone to comit a felony. Something like embezzlement or fraud or theft. You fail, but are still guilty of attempting a crime and the police are on to you. You manage to leave the country for a place that will not extradite you, but your buddy isn't so lucky. He gets caught, and is eventually convicted to 20 years in prison.
Of course the authorities want you, but they can't get you while you're in your safe heaven. They offer to reduce your buddy's sentence to 5 years if you'll come back and volunteer to serve 5 years in prison.
Would you go back? Or are you so selfish you wouldn't?
NOTE: there was a movie with a similar plot. I don't recall the anme and I never saw it.
For the record, I would not volunteer to spend a second in prison, much less five years.
Of course the authorities want you, but they can't get you while you're in your safe heaven. They offer to reduce your buddy's sentence to 5 years if you'll come back and volunteer to serve 5 years in prison.
Would you go back? Or are you so selfish you wouldn't?
NOTE: there was a movie with a similar plot. I don't recall the anme and I never saw it.
For the record, I would not volunteer to spend a second in prison, much less five years.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 11th, 2011 at 7:15:04 AM
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As hypotheticals go, this one has little relevance, since most of us wouldn't be in that situation to begin with.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 11th, 2011 at 7:20:30 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearAs hypotheticals go, this one has little relevance, since most of us wouldn't be in that situation to begin with.
True, but that applies to all hypotheticals.
The situation here is that you have nothing to gain, no selfish reason for doing what traditional morality says is the "right" thing. So what would you do?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 11th, 2011 at 9:35:41 AM
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This needs work. People who would commit a felony are likely to answer the question differently. It also depends on a lot of unrealistic things to happen like the sentence of a party A being reduced because of the actions by party B. Since I'm an honest person who would never be snared into that situation, Sure, I'll come back and let justice be served.Quote: NareedLet's say you partner with someone to comit a felony...(snip)
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
March 11th, 2011 at 9:43:53 AM
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This is basically the Prisoner's Dilemma with a twist. The choice here is made after the reward for defection has already been earned. Obviously the optimal thing to do in terms of payoff is to stay and let your accomplice do the time - assuming that the sentence is the only consideration.
Old enough to repaint. Young enough to sell.
March 11th, 2011 at 9:59:40 AM
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Quote: s2dbakerThis needs work. People who would commit a felony are likely to answer the question differently.
There are crimes of opportunity.
But ok. let's change it if you want. You and a casual acquaintance are framed for a crime. You manage to flee before being caught, and land in a place that won't extradite you. The acquaintance does get caught and sentenced to 20 years. If you return you each get 5 years. Do you go back?
The point is the same in both cases. Do you give up five years of your life for someone else's benefit?
I still wouldn't.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 11th, 2011 at 10:09:17 AM
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Casual acquaintance? Definitely not. But what if it was your spouse?
If my wife landed in jail for 20 years, and I could go back and spend 5 and reduce her sentence to 5, we'd have to have a long talk and evaluate what'd be best for our family. Context matters.
Edit: after a short but hysterical conversation with my wife, we've agreed that both of us in jail for 5 years is less bad than her in jail for 20 years and me out of the country.
And now I'm in the doghouse for (a) even suggesting that she should take the bullet for me, and (b) getting her in the hypothetical trouble in the first place.
If my wife landed in jail for 20 years, and I could go back and spend 5 and reduce her sentence to 5, we'd have to have a long talk and evaluate what'd be best for our family. Context matters.
Edit: after a short but hysterical conversation with my wife, we've agreed that both of us in jail for 5 years is less bad than her in jail for 20 years and me out of the country.
And now I'm in the doghouse for (a) even suggesting that she should take the bullet for me, and (b) getting her in the hypothetical trouble in the first place.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
March 11th, 2011 at 10:17:46 AM
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Quote: MathExtremistContext matters.
Yes, it does. That's why it's there.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 11th, 2011 at 10:25:52 AM
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The kick in Prisoner's Dilemma is in "both stay silent" vs "both betray" options, where betrayal looks like a better decision, but ends up in a longer sentence when actually taken.
There is no such dilemma here; all you can do is trade off 5 of your years for someone else's 15. So only the circumstances are similar, not the actual problem.
The question is then really reduced to whether you value your partner's time as being worth more than 1/3 of yours or less.
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As to what I would do:
One-time crime - no way! He's a crook, surely he belongs in prison. Yes, I do see the hypocrisy.
Pursuing a criminal career further - maybe. Five years in the university of crime are good training for graduating to greater crimes, you can socialize and establish future business contacts, reputation has a lot of value in the criminal world, and a cellmate is a friend indeed. However, there are criminal careers that favor a clean record.
There is no such dilemma here; all you can do is trade off 5 of your years for someone else's 15. So only the circumstances are similar, not the actual problem.
The question is then really reduced to whether you value your partner's time as being worth more than 1/3 of yours or less.
---
As to what I would do:
One-time crime - no way! He's a crook, surely he belongs in prison. Yes, I do see the hypocrisy.
Pursuing a criminal career further - maybe. Five years in the university of crime are good training for graduating to greater crimes, you can socialize and establish future business contacts, reputation has a lot of value in the criminal world, and a cellmate is a friend indeed. However, there are criminal careers that favor a clean record.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
March 11th, 2011 at 10:43:48 AM
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I wouldn't take the offer.
Number one, I successfully evaded capture and my buddy didn't. I should be rewarded for that.
Number two, my buddy is a criminal. He knew the risks when he did whatever we did.
I view this somewhat like donating a kidney to a stranger. The stranger gets a lot more than you sacrifice, yet hardly anybody ever volunteers to donate.
Number one, I successfully evaded capture and my buddy didn't. I should be rewarded for that.
Number two, my buddy is a criminal. He knew the risks when he did whatever we did.
I view this somewhat like donating a kidney to a stranger. The stranger gets a lot more than you sacrifice, yet hardly anybody ever volunteers to donate.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 11th, 2011 at 10:47:22 AM
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Quote: WizardI view this somewhat like donating a kidney to a stranger. The stranger gets a lot more than you sacrifice, yet hardly anybody ever volunteers to donate.
Good point. But wouldn't you say it's selfish to keep your excess kidney capacity when a stranger's life depends on getting a transplant?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 11th, 2011 at 10:54:25 AM
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Quote: NareedLet's say you partner with someone to comit a felony. Something like embezzlement or fraud or theft. You fail, but are still guilty of attempting a crime and the police are on to you. You manage to leave the country for a place that will not extradite you, but your buddy isn't so lucky. He gets caught, and is eventually convicted to 20 years in prison.
Of course the authorities want you, but they can't get you while you're in your safe heaven. They offer to reduce your buddy's sentence to 5 years if you'll come back and volunteer to serve 5 years in prison.
Would you go back? Or are you so selfish you wouldn't?
NOTE: there was a movie with a similar plot. I don't recall the anme and I never saw it.
For the record, I would not volunteer to spend a second in prison, much less five years.
I saw the movie, well, I saw MOST of the movie. Rain fade took out my satellite feed with about 20 min. to go in the movie, so I have no idea how it ended.
I have always hoped to see the movie listed again, but have not run across it, and I can't remember the name either.
As I recall, the friends get busted taking pot or coke in/out of a mid east or far east country. They had a government accomplice who was supposed to make it simple on them, but instead, they end up getting busted big time. Can't remember how one of them gets away, but they throw the book at the others that are left. Then they try and lure that last guy back with promises of letting everyone off easier if they all do the time. Just as I lost the signal, it looked like he was going back, but it also looked like the government was going to pull a double cross and burn them all anyway.
Anyone know the movie name ?
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
March 11th, 2011 at 10:57:58 AM
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Don't do the deal.
Once you come back to that jurisdiction you are going to be doing hard time for as long as THEY say, not for as long as the prosecutor agreed. Usually the most the prosecutor does is agree to RECOMMEND a certain sentence. Even if the prosecutor agrees and you have it in writing, so what? You can not compel the prosecutor to abide by the agreement nor can you sue for his failure to do so.
Once you come back to that jurisdiction you are going to be doing hard time for as long as THEY say, not for as long as the prosecutor agreed. Usually the most the prosecutor does is agree to RECOMMEND a certain sentence. Even if the prosecutor agrees and you have it in writing, so what? You can not compel the prosecutor to abide by the agreement nor can you sue for his failure to do so.
March 11th, 2011 at 12:39:08 PM
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Yes it does!Quote: MathExtremistContext matters.
If we were framed, why would I be hiding in another country?
LOL! I could see that coming a mile away!Quote: MathExtremistAfter a short but hysterical conversation with my wife, we've agreed that both of us in jail for 5 years is less bad than her in jail for 20 years and me out of the country.
And now I'm in the doghouse for (a) even suggesting that she should take the bullet for me, and (b) getting her in the hypothetical trouble in the first place.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
March 11th, 2011 at 12:49:05 PM
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Best I can do is put half the money in a safe investment if my buddy has to serve the sentence, Of course if we can communicate will
use that and my share too if we have a chance to bribe his way out/ Partners are partners ??
use that and my share too if we have a chance to bribe his way out/ Partners are partners ??
March 11th, 2011 at 12:51:13 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearIf we were framed, why would I be hiding in another country?
Why'd you let yourself be framed in the first place?
Hypotheticals are fantasy. the more you look at them, the less credible they become.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 11th, 2011 at 2:56:22 PM
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I'm just happy to remember the name of the movie--Return to Paradise!
It only took me all day...
It only took me all day...
Each of us is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.
Preparing for a fight about your bad decision is not as smart as making a good decision.
March 11th, 2011 at 3:20:13 PM
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Quote: FarFromVegasI'm just happy to remember the name of the movie--Return to Paradise!
Thanks!
So how does it end? I don't mind spoilers.
Quote:It only took me all day...
Next time try http://us.imdb.com It's an invaluable resource.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
March 11th, 2011 at 6:41:40 PM
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Quote: NareedThanks!
So how does it end? I don't mind spoilers.
Next time try http://us.imdb.com It's an invaluable resource.
Wikipedia is even better - it has the ending as well :)
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
March 11th, 2011 at 7:12:51 PM
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Quote: NareedHypotheticals are fantasy. the more you look at them, the less credible they become.
Yeah, I think so, too. I think the only thing these hypothetical dichotomies REALLY tells you is the difference between someone who says what's on their heart and someone who says what they want you to think is on their heart.
In other words, it's not effective at all in helping to understand people.
March 11th, 2011 at 8:14:10 PM
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Quote: NareedGood point. But wouldn't you say it's selfish to keep your excess kidney capacity when a stranger's life depends on getting a transplant?
Absolutely, I would say that. Count me firmly in the selfish camp too. You're pretty much guaranteed to save a life by donating a kidney, yet few do.
At the risk of getting off topic, I think the problem of people dying waiting for a transplant would be easily solved by letting people sell their kidneys.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
March 11th, 2011 at 8:16:44 PM
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Quote: WizardAt the risk of getting off topic, I think the problem of people dying waiting for a transplant would be easily solved by letting people sell their kidneys.
Absolutely.
But it's not likely to ever happen.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
