What's in your anesthetic?

There's a local science show on the radio I listen to when I can at 8 pm (not very often, really). The guy who does it is very good at explaining things.

Anwyay, two days ago he was talking about anesthetics and said cocaine was once used as a local anesthetic, something I'd heard before. Of course cocaine had some side effects like dependency and, more troubling, sudden cardiac arrest. As I said, I've heard about it before. What I dind't know was that of the anesthetics that came afterward, some were based on the cocaine molecule. One of them, according to the radio guy, is novocaine.

This is rather interesting. I knew attempts to alter morphine eventually rpoduced heroin, for example, but also other medical narcotics and pain killers. I didn't know local anesthetics were related to alkaloids. But now it makes sense that lidocaine is used as a stimulant as well as an anesthetic. I can only imagine doctors shooting cocaine into a patient with an irregular heart rhythm.

Now, marijuana is often cited for its beneficial effects to ameliorate the discomfort (to put it mildly) associated with chemotherapy and radiation. And I know THC, the active component of weed, is used in treating glaucoma. So the question is: can something like pot be synthesied that helps to relieve the side effects of cancer therapies, but that isn't a mind-altering drug? Like it was done to novcaine vis a vis cocaine?

I know doctors prescribe drugs to deal with the side efects of chemo. I also know for years doctors prescribed beta blockers and bland diets to treat stomach ulcers, which were really caused by the H. pilory bacterium. Medical conventional wisdom is all well and good, but it's the same as other types of conventional wisdom: it's sometimes way, way, way off.

Hopefully, they are relying more on carefully controlled studies than conventional wisdom these days.

THC, the active agent in weed, is available in a pill form. However, many chemo patients report that it is not as effective as lighting up a gordo.

Quote: Ayecarumba

THC, the active agent in weed, is available in a pill form. However, many chemo patients report that it is not as effective as lighting up a gordo.

Many substances, and organisms, differ in effect when they are taken orally vs being absorbed in another way. The bug that causes legionaire's disease is harmless if ingested, but harmful if inhaled.

In the case of THC there may be other things in the smoke that complement or affect the THC

Quote: Nareed

What I dind't know was that of the anesthetics that came afterward, some were based on the cocaine molecule. One of them, according to the radio guy, is novocaine.

Couldn't you have guessed it from the name? Really?

Quote: Nareed

In the case of THC there may be other things in the smoke that complement or affect the THC

Placebo effect :) Seriously, I think, it is the very act of smoking weed that is therapeutic. At least, in my case (I am very heavy on reflexy, and exploring my own motivation) I am very sure of it.

To answer your question: yes, there are researchers working on drugs to target the cannabinoid receptors. Most of these are being targeted toward pain and nausea. Our bodies produce "endocannabinoids" to use stimulate those receptors, similar to the endorphins that activate the opioid receptors. Opium and cannabis are natural products that activate the receptors more strongly than the stuff our own nervous system produces.

Interestingly, there is work being done on cannabinoid antagonist drugs. Antagonist drugs block the receptors, so your self-made compounds can't get in. The goal is to use these for weight loss, giving you the anti-munchies.

One of the goals of research is to get rid of the euphoria. Ignoring the dope fiends that make up much of the medical marijuana movement, most people find the euphoria to be an unpleasant side effect.

Local anesthetics' relation to cocaine is a little bit different (being locally-acting, rather than systermic). I'm not a pharmacologist, but I would assume cannabinoid derivatives are more complicated to produce. Novocaine is over 100 years old.

Quote: weaselman

Couldn't you have guessed it from the name? Really?

Guessed? Sure. I could also have guessed it the other way around.

Quote: dudestupid

One of the goals of research is to get rid of the euphoria. Ignoring the dope fiends that make up much of the medical marijuana movement, most people find the euphoria to be an unpleasant side effect.

That makes sense. If you're sick, nauseated and hungry, you don't want to get high, too.

Quote:

Local anesthetics' relation to cocaine is a little bit different (being locally-acting, rather than systermic). I'm not a pharmacologist, but I would assume cannabinoid derivatives are more complicated to produce. Novocaine is over 100 years old.

I did some research. Novocaine was developed in 1905,which makes it 105 years old.

Quote: Ayecarumba

THC, the active agent in weed, is available in a pill form. However, many chemo patients report that it is not as effective as lighting up a gordo.

It is called marinol, one of my friends has a prescription, I don't do drugs so I am not interested in trying it.

Quote: dudestupid

Ignoring the dope fiends that make up much of the medical marijuana movement, most people find the euphoria to be an unpleasant side effect.

Dope fiends. I always love that one. Makes me want to watch a silent movie.
I never knew that most people find a sense of euphoria unpleasant. I myself rater enjoy a feeling of well being.

The last corp I worked for is a large producer of cocaine they also had the patent on Marinol but it was a failure financially.

Euphoria an "unpleasant side effect"? I would surely enjoy a few hours conversation with these types of folk. It'd be interesting, methinks.

I've heard you could catch drug test hell if it fell right after dental work, as all the -caine suffixed anesthetics could result in a positive for coke. I haven't any real proof, and would imagine you'd need quite a bit of the needle for it to register, but always found it interesting. Kinda like the Seinfeld episode when Elaine gets busted for eating poppy seed bagels.

I myself have been on the -dones for years due to a life full of athletics and freestyle motorsports. Never had the pee-lady bust me on a heroin rap, even though many in the med field say I should have already.

I don't know about the pill-weed, but the natural stuff used to quell a lot of my ailments. Aches and pains, head colds, nausea, acute road rage, hangnails, spilled milk, GWB press conferences, adult contemporary music....it was a cure by no means, but made a lot of things a lot more easy to deal with. Closest thing to a panacea I've ever found. And I dunno, but if it works better, is cheaper, and is healthier than pumping myself full of acetominophen + 12 different things I cant even pronounce, then I think it's worth taking another look at. But what do I know anyway? I suppose it's better that we all kill our livers and pile billions to the pharm companies while disenchanted 20-somethings get thrown in jail, taking them out of productivity and crippling our prison system, all because some white guy in the 50's (?) said this devil weed made negroes go crazy, when in reality all it does is increase Dorito and Jimi Hendrix record sales and raise the incidences of carpal tunnel syndrome due to massive X-Box live sessions. I'm not totally hippie, but I'd much rather burn one than take a Sudafed, or chew some feverfew than pop an imitrex needle in my butt cheek.

If the pharm co.'s really wanted to help, they'd make a system flusher in pill form that was guaranteed to give you a negative on the pee test for cannibinoids. They'd make a mint. And as a bonus side effect there'd be good music again, as opposed to our current offerings of Justin Bieber.

Quote: Nareed

But now it makes sense that lidocaine is used as a stimulant as well as an anesthetic. I can only imagine doctors shooting cocaine into a patient with an irregular heart rhythm.

Lidocaine a.k.a. Pharmaceutical Cocaine

Yikes. Cocaine is still used in Medicine. ENT surgeons still use it as a topical anesthetic because it also acts as a vasoconstrictor decreasing blood loss during certain nasal surgeries. Lidocaine is NOT pharmaceutical cocaine. You do not get the high from lidocaine that you get from cocaine. There are new local anesthetics made recently that are less dangerous to the heart, and lidocaine is still used to treat certain cardiac arrhythmias. We also have new narcotics, hundreds of times as powerful as morphine. We dose them in micrograms.

Quote: SOOPOO

Yikes. Cocaine is still used in Medicine. ENT surgeons still use it as a topical anesthetic because it also acts as a vasoconstrictor decreasing blood loss during certain nasal surgeries.

How about that? I'd heard about medical grade cocaine, but I figured it was used for research or to treat addiction.

Quote:

and lidocaine is still used to treat certain cardiac arrhythmias.

Cool. I remembered what it was for :)

Quote: Nareed

Guessed? Sure. I could also have guessed it the other way around.

Nah, can't be the other way around because "novo" means "new".

I have a recurring problem in my back -- never really been determined what is wrong -- that causes some rather extreme pain at times. I keep a supply of oxycodone on hand and in my travel bag for times when such treatment is absolutely necessary. I also have gout, and when it flares up (very rarely now that I take allopurinol daily), I take the same oxycodone for that pain.

I do indeed agree that the so-called "euphoria" is an undesirable side effect. I love that the acute pain is eased, but I can't stand the loss of mental focus. The oxycodone tablets are listed as 5-325 mg., which I think means 5 mg of oxy and 325 mg of ibuprofin. The bottle lists the dosage as 1 or 2 tablets every 4 hours as necessary. I take much less than that, even when in significant pain. I don't think I have ever taken 2 tablets at the same time, and I generally space them much farther apart than 4 hours, specifically to avoid the "euphoria." Taking 2 at 4 hr intervals seems like something I would never do without really excruciating pain.

On two or three occasions, I have received injections in ERs for the back pain. I think it was demerol. In those instances, the pain was almost immediately gone, but I absolutely hated the residual sense that I was about to float away like a balloon. I suspect I would make a lousy addict, but if you actually enjoy that feeling, you may be well on your way.

Quote: weaselman

Nah, can't be the other way around because "novo" means "new".

Yes. But there are way too many drugs with similar names: lidocaine, prilocaine and others. It's not possible to say which came first by name alone.

Did I mention I'm stubborn? :P