Wizard
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Wizard
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September 30th, 2010 at 11:10:33 PM permalink
You say all that like it is a bad thing. It is biblical to tithe. I don't think you can fault them for following scripture on that. Personally, I'd prefer to just tithe and get it over with than suffer through a carefully crafted pitch to separate me from my money every week.

It would also seem a good thing that a church is financially healthy and saves for a rainy day. That is a good example to follow. Investing in their own businesses also seems like a good idea, compared to giving it to a greedy mutual fund manager. Compared to the debt the federal and most state governments are running up, taking in more than you need seems a much better alternative.

Checking tax returns to ensure their members are tithing is something I also applaud. I can't condone snooping in state records. However, it would seem reasonable to ask for evidence of income to compare to donation records. That way you remove the temptation to cheat.

p.s. Did you notice the change of font in the editting frame, per your complaint?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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September 30th, 2010 at 11:52:17 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Fall short and you're likely to get a knock on your door.



What a load of crap. FYI, my sister is a Mormon and she was unemployed and had no money to tithe with and Church embraced her, they didn't 'knock on her door'. You're an idiot, you make stuff up and then pretend its the truth.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
mkl654321
mkl654321
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October 1st, 2010 at 12:50:49 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

You say all that like it is a bad thing. It is biblical to tithe. I don't think you can fault them for following scripture on that. Personally, I'd prefer to just tithe and get it over with than suffer through a carefully crafted pitch to separate me from my money every week.

It would also seem a good thing that a church is financially healthy and saves for a rainy day. That is a good example to follow. Investing in their own businesses also seems like a good idea, compared to giving it to a greedy mutual fund manager. Compared to the debt the federal and most state governments are running up, taking in more than you need seems a much better alternative.

Checking tax returns to ensure their members are tithing is something I also applaud. I can't condone snooping in state records. However, it would seem reasonable to ask for evidence of income to compare to donation records. That way you remove the temptation to cheat.

p.s. Did you notice the change of font in the editting frame, per your complaint?



I draw a rather large distinction between voluntary giving and compulsory giving. A person should be able to give any amount of his income that he chooses, from 0% to 100%, without coercion. The way the Mormon Church conducts its business makes it seem as if they are the only church in America that charges for membership. I realize that other churches solicit donations, but this seems a little too...commercialized. I certainly agree, they are a profitable and efficient organization. I just wonder how many members they DON'T have, because of the tithe.

And yes, I did notice the frame editing font change--it's 100% better now. Thanks for changing it.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
boymimbo
boymimbo
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October 1st, 2010 at 4:45:39 AM permalink
I think Scientology also charges for membership.
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Nareed
Nareed
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October 1st, 2010 at 7:00:28 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

btw, I had forgotten about Scientology. I hope they have living Prophets, you'd hate to think they aren't ever going to change their practices. Personally I view them as a "Cult" rather than a Religion.



You know the difference between a cult and a religion? Numbers and time.

"This new religion, Christianity, they are so poor...."
"How poor are they?"
"They are so poor, they only have one god!"

Mel Brooks as "Comicus, the stand-up philosopher," in History of the World Part I.
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Wizard
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Wizard
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October 1st, 2010 at 8:23:13 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

I draw a rather large distinction between voluntary giving and compulsory giving. A person should be able to give any amount of his income that he chooses, from 0% to 100%, without coercion. The way the Mormon Church conducts its business makes it seem as if they are the only church in America that charges for membership. I realize that other churches solicit donations, but this seems a little too...commercialized. I certainly agree, they are a profitable and efficient organization. I just wonder how many members they DON'T have, because of the tithe.



I guess we disagree on the merits of setting a specific expectation for giving. Personally, I like to know the rules of things. Just tell me what is expected of me, rather than trick me with a sermon of which the gist is "the more you put in the offering tray, the more god will give back to you."

Every church has to solicit donations somehow. A good and rare few don't do it publically, to not put anybody on the spot. Ultimately, somebody has to pay the electric bill.

Also, does anybody know how they solicit donations in Judaism? I know you have to buy a ticket for the most popular holy day services. However, they must get more coming in than that. I've asked a number of Jews about this, and can never get a straight answer.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
JerryLogan
JerryLogan
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October 1st, 2010 at 8:36:03 AM permalink
"Donations" of one kind or another are a part of being actively involved in religion. Even Atheism has a price: They are the unhappiest, most cynical people on earth.
Nareed
Nareed
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October 1st, 2010 at 8:42:51 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Also, does anybody know how they solicit donations in Judaism? I know you have to buy a ticket for the most popular holy day services. However, they must get more coming in than that. I've asked a number of Jews about this, and can never get a straight answer.



Not quite, but I can tell you of what I know.

The synagogue my parents go to sells memberships, which are renwed for a fee each year. The membership includes tickets for the high holidays (the Jewish New Year and Yom Kippur, which take place ten days apart). In theory no one pays for attending services. In practice they won't let you in without a ticket on the big two because there's no room. They also charge a fee for ceremonies like weddings and bar mitzvahs.

They take donations, too, but I've no idea how they go about it. Typically the bigger donors have assigned seats for the high holidays, also nearer the front. Also the donors tend to be called to read the Torah on such holidays (that's a missnamed ritual, actually, but also another matter), and to take part on the ceremony attendant to such reading (it's highly ritualistic).

When they were building a branch temple farther to the west of town, they did send letters and fliers asking members for donations.

This synagogue labels itself Conservative (which means they have more liberal rules than the Orthodox; such as men and women pray together and not in separate sections), which is not the most popular denomination in Mexico; and you should hear what they say about the one Reform temple in the country. Anwyay, it's made its own sub-community within the larger Mexican Jewish community. So they also operate social organizations and things like summer camps for kids, all for which they charge a fee.

The titular Rabbi and Cantor will perform ceremonies and duties off-temple, too, such as weddings at hotels or toher venues, and such as graveside prayers at funerals and other related occasions like the unveiling of the headstone at the one-year anniversary of death, or the evening prayer on the last day of Shivah. They charge for weddings, I don't know if they charge for funerals and such but I suppose they do

Too bad you dind't ask back in May.

I've a related question: how do cemeteries get an income? I know they sell plots, but once the body is in the ground and the headstone's up, do they get paid anything else?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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October 1st, 2010 at 8:48:25 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
mkl654321
mkl654321
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October 1st, 2010 at 8:57:08 AM permalink
Quote: JerryLogan

"Donations" of one kind or another are a part of being actively involved in religion. Even Atheism has a price: They are the unhappiest, most cynical people on earth.



Can you support that generalization with evidence?
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw

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