EvenBob
EvenBob
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September 29th, 2010 at 11:14:55 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321



Mormons are almost always very nice people (if you can fend off the conversion attempts); you would like to have them as neighbors.



I have no problem with Mormons. They have good family programs, excellent youth programs, excellent work ethics.. There will never be a Mormon war. It has its quirks, but a society of mostly Mormons or a society of mostly Muslims? No contest.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
rxwine
rxwine
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September 30th, 2010 at 12:34:31 AM permalink
Crazy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqSZhwu1Rwo

But the craziest stuff usually doesn't survive to compete with the big 3.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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September 30th, 2010 at 3:09:51 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Mormons would say that their church is a work in progress. How else could you explain the change of position on polygamy? I think I prefer flexibility to the unchanging dogma of Catholicism.



A recent TV interview with a Mormon Prophet helped explain this. Mormon practices can change through the input of Prophets, he said. And of course they believe Prophets are not just from yesteryear. Pretty clever!

btw, I had forgotten about Scientology. I hope they have living Prophets, you'd hate to think they aren't ever going to change their practices. Personally I view them as a "Cult" rather than a Religion. The IRS gives them full Religion status, however, and such may be the only hard standard out there. If we are to view them as a Religion, yep, I would put them as wilder in their basic beliefs than Mormons.

I guess also you have to hold up Scientology as an example of the fact that no Religious Doctrine is too nutty for at least some people to accept.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Mosca
Mosca
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September 30th, 2010 at 6:55:40 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

I see them as having taken a religion that was (is) a travesty of an actual religion and turned it into something worthwhile. That's in direct contrast to the Catholics having taken something that was worthwhile and turned it into a travesty.



Although Catholicism itself is a travesty, most Catholics I know are about the same as atheists, as far as day-to-day life goes. They only go whack for an hour each Sunday. I'll take the average Catholic over the average fundie any day.
NO KILL I
Wizard
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Wizard
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September 30th, 2010 at 7:24:31 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Re polygamy: the Territory of Utah met the qualifications for admission into the Union as a state by 1850...



Yes, of course, that is the real reason they changed their position on polygamy. However, I doubt that is what their version would be. They probably say that one of their profits probably was told by god that he changed his mind on that issue. It wouldn't look good to put politics before god.

The thing I want to say in the defense of Mormonism (it that the right term?) is that at least it is improving. Religions that are set in stone are doomed to suffer ridiculous and failed policies like transubstantiation and chaste priests.

I also agree that most Mormons I've met are very nice people. I can't think of another faith I could say that about.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
OahuPlayer
OahuPlayer
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September 30th, 2010 at 7:40:25 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

They probably say that one of their profits probably was told by god that he changed his mind on that issue.



"Profits"? Sorry, but that gave me a good chuckle. I know it was a typo, but my problem with the Mormon church (not the people in general) is that they own numerous multi-billion and multi-million dollar businesses, which in my opinion is not what Christianity is about. I have no problem at all with any individual of any religion owning any sized business, but when the church itself owns them, that's another issue.
Wizard
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Wizard
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September 30th, 2010 at 9:22:09 PM permalink
Quote: OahuPlayer

"Profits"? Sorry, but that gave me a good chuckle. I know it was a typo, but my problem with the Mormon church (not the people in general) is that they own numerous multi-billion and multi-million dollar businesses, which in my opinion is not what Christianity is about. I have no problem at all with any individual of any religion owning any sized business, but when the church itself owns them, that's another issue.



Don't they say that the current church president is indeed a church profit? If I were to create a religion, then I think that is a good idea. No more church splits as new questions come up, as there is someone in direct communication with god you can ask for guidance.

About the church owning businesses, I don't have a problem with that as long as they don't abuse the power. The blessed are the poor part of Christianity I find rather depressing and a tough selling point.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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September 30th, 2010 at 9:38:55 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Don't they say that the current church president is indeed a church profit? If I were to create a religion, then I think that is a good idea. No more church splits as new questions come up, as there is someone in direct communication with god you can ask for guidance.

About the church owning businesses, I don't have a problem with that as long as they don't abuse the power. The blessed are the poor part of Christianity I find rather depressing and a tough selling point.



Well, they may say he's a church PROPHET, but I think they leave the profits to their business division. They have several subsidiary corporations, some that rival Fortune 500 companies in size, and that (naturally) are treated very favorably tax-wise by the Utah government (which is secular in name only).
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Wizard
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Wizard
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September 30th, 2010 at 10:23:30 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

Well, they may say he's a church PROPHET, but I think they leave the profits to their business division. They have several subsidiary corporations, some that rival Fortune 500 companies in size, and that (naturally) are treated very favorably tax-wise by the Utah government (which is secular in name only).



Don't you admire their success in the business world? Maybe that is better than the alternative of begging for a big donation in the offering tray every week. I don't know about how much state income tax they pay in Utah, but I would, of course, oppose any special treatment.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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September 30th, 2010 at 10:41:04 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Don't you admire their success in the business world? Maybe that is better than the alternative of begging for a big donation in the offering tray every week. I don't know about how much state income tax they pay in Utah, but I would, of course, oppose any special treatment.



Undoubtedly. But despite the fact that they make beaucoup bucks, they still expect every member to "tithe" one tenth of his income annually. This has been interpreted in various ways, to mean one-tenth of GROSS income, or, alternatively, one-tenth of NET income. The latter calculation seems more congruent to established Church doctrine, which states (in Joseph Smith's translation of the Bible) that one-tenth of "surplus" should be tithed. Of course, many Mormons simply tithe one-tenth of their gross incomes, and the Church doesn't give the excess back; you are allowed to tithe any amount you want in excess of the minimum.

The amounts thus collected have been, historically, far in excess of what was needed to finance the day-to-day operations of the Church, so the surplus was used to finance far-flung missionary expeditions, invest in businesses, and establish a generous welfare system. The excess funds that were invested are the roots of the many large business enterprises the Church owns today.

Despite the fact that the Church runs at a large surplus, the tithe amount requested of members has not declined. In fact, the pressure on members to properly tithe has, if anything, intensified. And that pressure is applied seven days a week, not just on Sundays (like the Catholics' collection baskets). Mormon officials have access to state tax returns and compare members' net incomes to the amounts tithed. Fall short and you're likely to get a knock on your door.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw

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