Who is the night king? Game of Thrones

For all of you fellow thrones folks. I have been having an ongoing theory debate with my buddies on the subject. I have had multiple theories through the last few seasons (no I don't read theory articles online) regarding who is actually the Night King. I have, on multiple occasions, started to think that Bran is actually everyone, the three eyed raven (which has been confirmed), Bran the builder who was responsible for building the wall (as he went back and altered the past in one of his flashback, maybe even purposefully "drowning" in one of his flashbacks) and now I'm leaning towards him being the night king as well. His recent demeanor change makes me think that he is starting to piece everything together and perhaps he is so somber because he now knows the truth about everything in that he is truly responsible for everything. Additionally, Leaf (the main child of the forest) tell shim that they created the walkers to protect the children against "you" (meaning Bran) and "men". The last time someone refereed to Bran as being something in the show, it was Jojen telling him that he cant kill the three eyed raven in his dream when he was chasing it with his bow, because "the three eyed raven is you". Therefore, In my opinon, when anyone tells bran that he actually is someone or something, I now take that as truth... Last, the warging session where the mad king looks abruptly in the direction of Bran's warged raven possy, making them scatter, makes me think that he knows Bran is watching him, because its actually Bran.

Regarding Rhaegar, he is the only character that has never been developed in the slightest. However, we are now learning Jon's true background in being a Targarian and the rightful heir to the throne. However, if the stories about how Robert killed Rhagar are true, then the scene where they children create the walkers by stabbing the unnamed guy in the heart with the dragon glass dagger, creating the night king, would be flawed because according to the legend, Robert crushed Rhaegar's chest with his hammer killing him. However, we know that people can be brought back to life by the lord of light...... The man who was depicted in the night king creation scene, was a man with short blondish hair and bright blueish eyes, attributes of Rhaegar we have learned over time. The main reasons why I think it is Rhaegar is because A) the way he (the night king) looks at Jon every time he sees him can be implied that he somehow knows that Jon is his son, B) the fact that the night king is unbothered by fire and simply walks through it makes me think that he is a Targarian, C) now that they have there own white dragon, which he will most definitely ride, further implies that he is the third rider of Targarian decent.

On the old stark who was the former lord commander of the night's watch, I've got nothing. My buddy claims this is still the main theory, but I don't buy it.

Anyone have any thoughts??

I think the show is well done, but has some obvious flaws. Most obvious being time and distance seems to change at will. It took several episodes for The Hound to get from The Red Wedding to the North. but Aria does it in one episode. Now people go from Dragonstooth to Kings Landing, back to Dragon Tooth and then to The Wall in one episode. Jon is ambushed, sends to the Wall for help, who then sends a raven to Dragonstooth, where Dany takes the time to have a custom form fitting fur coat made and then flies to the North to rescue John. Meanwhile the dead have been marching towards the wall for many episodes now.
Other than that, I like the show and don't read much speculation about it, nor watch trailers or leaked footage.

Quote: billryan

I think the show is well done, but has some obvious flaws. Most obvious being time and distance seems to change at will. It took several episodes for The Hound to get from The Red Wedding to the North. but Aria does it in one episode. Now people go from Dragonstooth to Kings Landing, back to Dragon Tooth and then to The Wall in one episode. Jon is ambushed, sends to the Wall for help, who then sends a raven to Dragonstooth, where Dany takes the time to have a custom form fitting fur coat made and then flies to the North to rescue John. Meanwhile the dead have been marching towards the wall for many episodes now.
Other than that, I like the show and don't read much speculation about it, nor watch trailers or leaked footage.

This is worded exactly how I would put it.

I haven't read anything about it nor looked ahead to sneak peaks or leaked footage. All I've seen are the up to date episodes.

As far as the night king, I think he's his own character. I mean, they showed the man they turned in to the night king, so I doubt it would be anyone else. I think it would be nice to have it all be a time laps of Bran or the 3 eyed raven looking in to the future, and then to have the last episode go back to Winterfell with Ned still being alive (the feels)... but then again that would also piss a lot of people off as it would be a 'feel good' ending and not a real ending.

What are they going to do with Daneris (since she doesn't like being called Danny) and John? Isn't he like, her half brother then or something? Or am I messing up the family tree? If that's the case they can't have them end up together, can they? I'm waiting for the episode when John flies a dragon. They def seem to hint at that when Dracaras was "cool" with him.

Get real. You guys are only watching this show because of the soft core porn. 😎

They have/had lines out on who would rule the Iron Throne at the end of this season.

They had Cersei Lannister at around -300 give or take. I thought it was odd that she was the only one that was - money. For those who don't know she is a villain who's character FK's her brother.

I was thinking Sansa Stark at +2000

how can the night king be rhaegar?!

the white walkers was last seen a thousand years ago.
that implies they were around long before that.


tangent:
why cant the white walkers just walk around the wall?
when a great winter comes, wouldn't the river next to the wall be frozen over?

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Get real. You guys are only watching this show because of the soft core porn. 😎

I have Cinemax for that.

Quote: billryan

I think the show is well done, but has some obvious flaws. Most obvious being time and distance seems to change at will.

That's fair. That really started last season. When some people just randomly appeared together on the boats with Dani.

Quote: Romes

What are they going to do with Daneris (since she doesn't like being called Danny) and John? Isn't he like, her half brother then or something? Or am I messing up the family tree? If that's the case they can't have them end up together, can they? I'm waiting for the episode when John flies a dragon. They def seem to hint at that when Dracaras was "cool" with him.

He's her nephew. She, Viserys an Rhaegar are siblings. John is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark. As far as ending up together... I think Axel's Character summery of Cersei, reinforces all incest possibilities on the show...

Quote: AxelWolf

They had Cersei Lannister at around -300 give or take.

Smart, knowing the walkers would really be the focus this season. There is still a chance she dies next episode, but I think the next change of power will be the final one next season.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Get real. You guys are only watching this show because of the soft core porn. 😎

Talk to Grey Worm about that...

Quote: 100xOdds

how can the night king be rhaegar?!

the white walkers was last seen a thousand years ago.
that implies they were around long before that.


tangent:
why cant the white walkers just walk around the wall?
when a great winter comes, wouldn't the river next to the wall be frozen over?

I feel like anything is possible now that Bran can "drown" in the past. Who's to say its just him. I feel like the night king isn't the original one. Didn't the first men prevail the first time around? Maybe this is the second coming after being recreated by the children of the forest. But I honestly don't know....

Tangent:

Lol, fair question.

Quote: billryan

I think the show is well done, but has some obvious flaws. Most obvious being time and distance seems to change at will. It took several episodes for The Hound to get from The Red Wedding to the North. but Aria does it in one episode. Now people go from Dragonstooth to Kings Landing, back to Dragon Tooth and then to The Wall in one episode. Jon is ambushed, sends to the Wall for help, who then sends a raven to Dragonstooth, where Dany takes the time to have a custom form fitting fur coat made and then flies to the North to rescue John. Meanwhile the dead have been marching towards the wall for many episodes now.
Other than that, I like the show and don't read much speculation about it, nor watch trailers or leaked footage.

I don't think it's necessarily supposed to be 100% chronological or perfect timing between segments. I didn't read a lot of the books, but the little I did read seemed to Be broken up by character, with each chapter advancing a particular story arc a bit. Sort of hard to put that all on screen in real time.

Quote: Romes

What are they going to do with Daneris (since she doesn't like being called Danny) and John? Isn't he like, her half brother then or something? Or am I messing up the family tree? If that's the case they can't have them end up together, can they? I'm waiting for the episode when John flies a dragon. They def seem to hint at that when Dracaras was "cool" with him.

There's plenty of purposeful incest in the show, so I doubt accidental incest is off the table.

Like someone already mentioned, Dany is John's aunt. Rhaegar Targaryen (Dany's Brother) had an affair with Lyanna Stark (Ned's Sister), and she got pregnant and died giving birth to John, who Ned adopted.

I'm not sure who is alive that knows this and could tip them off before they get all weird together.

Purposeful incest? Yeah, big seller these days. Just look at the 8 to 16 year old demographics of that concert singer who got bombed in Manchester. What are eight year old girls doing singing about Wrist Icicles or Side By Side. Bodily fluids dripping from a girl's wrists and various copulatory positions is 'soft core porn to music' in Manchester and the entire show of "Sopranos Come To Middle Earth" (GoT) is soft core porn. Its all that sells these days.

Do you wake up cranky or does someone piss in your cornflakes each morning?

I rarely eat cornflakes.

Quote: gamerfreak

Like someone already mentioned, Dany is John's aunt. Rhaegar Targaryen (Dany's Brother) had an affair with Lyanna Stark (Ned's Sister), and she got pregnant and died giving birth to John, who Ned adopted.

I'm not sure who is alive that knows this and could tip them off before they get all weird together.

Aside from the all-seeing Bran, there's a hint that Sam, with assist from Gilly, will figure it out. She came across a journal entry about a secret marriage for Rhaegar that Sam didn't pay much attention to at the time but I'm guessing the writers wouldn't have included it if it wasn't leading somewhere.

Quote: TumblingBones

Aside from the all-seeing Bran, there's a hint that Sam, with assist from Gilly, will figure it out. She came across a journal entry about a secret marriage for Rhaegar that Sam didn't pay much attention to at the time but I'm guessing the writers wouldn't have included it if it wasn't leading somewhere.

That established that Jon is not a bastard at all, he is a true Targarian and rightful heir to the throne (which should make things with Dani interesting when they both find out). Rhaegar had his first marriage annulled and had the secret marriage to Lyanna in Dorn. That is what Gilly read in the book to Sam. Sam has no idea what she is talking about at this point, he only cares about the Walkers, which is why he ignored what she said..

The segment she read was very important because, beyond Bran's flashback, now we know for sure that Jon is in fact a Taragrian, not just an implication from a flashback that could have been screwed around with later on....

Quote: mrsuit31

That established that Jon is not a bastard at all, he is a true Targarian and rightful heir to the throne (which should make things with Dani interesting when they both find out). Rhaegar had his first marriage annulled and had the secret marriage to Lyanna in Dorn. That is what Gilly read in the book to Sam. Sam has no idea what she is talking about at this point, he only cares about the Walkers, which is why he ignored what she said..

The segment she read was very important because, beyond Bran's flashback, now we know for sure that Jon is in fact a Taragrian, not just an implication from a flashback that could have been screwed around with later on....

Do we know that?
I don't think so. We do know Rhaegar had his marriage annulled and he secretly married someone. Perhaps he was a serial annuller, perhaps he married someone else and his affair with Jon's mother was just that.

Quote: billryan

Do we know that?
I don't think so. We do know Rhaegar had his marriage annulled and he secretly married someone. Perhaps he was a serial annuller, perhaps he married someone else and his affair with Jon's mother was just that.

You willing to bet it wasn't Jon's mother? Seems like a safe bet it was. Care to offer odds to the contrary?

While I am not sure of anything,I will take that bet. Loser buys the winner a beer.
Two incestuous relationships is at least one two many.

You guys know entirely too much about this show.

It keeps our minds off of the many ways the Casinos and their Chinese overlords are screwing us.

Quote: billryan

While I am not sure of anything,I will take that bet. Loser buys the winner a beer.
Two incestuous relationships is at least one two many.

Done.
Of course now we have to wait over a year to determine the winner.

Quote: TumblingBones

Done.
Of course now we have to wait over a year to determine the winner.

It's possible we find out next episode, but your likely right as it didn't look like Jon was going to be in Winterfell at all next episode.

Quote: AxelWolf

You guys know entirely too much about this show.

I'm an addict.

wished episode 6 was:
priest thoros gets separated from the group.
beric dies.

jon and his suicide squad desperately dragging beric's body away before the night king gets into range to turn him into a wight.

My wife's question after the last episode was where the hell did the Night King get all those massive chains they used to pull Viserion from the ice? Were they schlepping them around all this time or do they grow on trees north of the Wall?

Quote: TumblingBones

My wife's question after the last episode was where the hell did the Night King get all those massive chains they used to pull Viserion from the ice? Were they schlepping them around all this time or do they grow on trees north of the Wall?

Sadly after saying I don't ready anything on the subject, I read some recent articles/theories about that... That said, there are some interesting ones out there that could definite explain that... More or less they confirm/imply that bran is in fact the night king. Basically based on his ability to go back and alter the past (and prepare).

I wont get to far into it because of course it can be straight doodee, but it definitely caught my attention.

Perhaps they were bringing them to the wall to pull it down. That would also explain why they are advancing at the speed of a glacier.

Quote: TumblingBones

My wife's question after the last episode was where the hell did the Night King get all those massive chains they used to pull Viserion from the ice? Were they schlepping them around all this time or do they grow on trees north of the Wall?

My GF asked the same thing.

Quote: TumblingBones

My wife's question after the last episode was where the hell did the Night King get all those massive chains they used to pull Viserion from the ice? Were they schlepping them around all this time or do they grow on trees north of the Wall?

and why did the night king have to touch the dragon to revive?
he didn't need to do that to other undead in the past.

the only other time we've seen him touch someone is a baby.
hm.. maybe he touched uncle Benje and turned him into a wight that can think for himself?

maybe Viserion can still think for himself?

Quote: 100xOdds

and why did the night king have to touch the dragon to revive?
he didn't need to do that to other undead in the past.

the only other time we've seen him touch someone is a baby.
hm.. maybe he touched uncle Benje and turned him into a wight that can think for himself?

maybe Viserion can still think for himself?

Maybe now, the only thing that can kill him is a dragon glass spear...

He's definitely a Wight dragon and that ain't good.

Tangent:

I wonder what the significance is of the crazy dagger that Arya now has (the Bran attempted murder weapon). A picture of the dagger was on the page before the map of Dragonstone (showing Sam where the dragon glass was), in the book from the citadel. I feel they (hbo) wouldn't have put it on an entire page, and literally the only other page shown from the book, if it isn't going to be important (if you hadn't noticed that before, your welcome). That's gotta be the dagger that wins the war or something like that...

Daily Star published salalry figures for GoT series.

Quote: mrsuit31

Tangent:

I wonder what the significance is of the crazy dagger that Arya now has (the Bran attempted murder weapon). A picture of the dagger was on the page before the map of Dragonstone (showing Sam where the dragon glass was), in the book from the citadel. I feel they (hbo) wouldn't have put it on an entire page, and literally the only other page shown from the book, if it isn't going to be important (if you hadn't noticed that before, your welcome). That's gotta be the dagger that wins the war or something like that...

when was this?
season? episode?

Quote: FleaStiff

Daily Star published salalry figures for GoT series.

link?

Quote: 100xOdds

when was this?
season? episode?

Page before the map...

This is the Night King. We saw his creation on the show....

Quote: ams288

This is the Night King. We saw his creation on the show....

I know that.... But who is he and when was that (not when did the scene actually happen in the show, but when in the show history)?

All we know is that picture of him, and supposedly why the children of the forest did it...

The night king seems to have, on multiple occasions, been prepared for the few battles that have taken place, he seemingly knows who Jon is (based on how he always looks at him all weird), he knew Bran was watching him through the ravens, he seemed to know when the dragons would show up (as they had the ice spears ready to throw and had these chains to pull the dragon out of the water, etc.....

Quote: mrsuit31

he seemed to know when the dragons would show up (as they had the ice spears ready to throw and had these chains to pull the dragon out of the water, etc.....

I think most people are attributing that to bad writing...

Quote: ams288

I think most people are attributing that to bad writing...

I'm not.... ;)

This can all be total BS, but its still fun to think and talk about....

Quote: ams288

I think most people are attributing that to bad writing...

No, billryan had a good idea... The chains were for the wall. The night king has been around "forever" so he's seen dragons before and had his weapons with him (especially since the whole world knows dragons are now back in the picture). Also, it's not too inconceivable that like Bran, the night king has visions as well, which would clearly be helpful in seeing past/future events and preparing, etc...

My problem isn't so much WHY he had the chains but where he got them. Is there a Home Depot north of the wall? Everything we've seen shows the region as pretty bleak and barren. The wildlings don't come across as having much in the way of industrial capability so back to my original question: do massive chains grow on trees north of the wall?
To me this is bad writing. If the dragon had crashed on land none us would be debating the chain issue. One of the things Star Trek was lauded for was the consistency of the writing and the fact that they created a universe that was internally consistent. Martin did that with the GoT books but the show seems to be getting sloppy now that they are in the final seasons and are in bookless territory.

Quote: mrsuit31

Page before the map...

holy Christ.. never noticed that!
thx!

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: mrsuit31

Page before the map...

holy Christ.. never noticed that!
thx!

NP. He even pauses and double takes on the page for a hot second.

Now that I think about it, maybe that's even more foreshadowing that Bran is the night king (in some way, even if he was just stuck in the body from a warging gone wrong...). If that's the dagger that will eventually win the war by killing the night king, it would be the second time it was used to try and kill Bran..........................

Quote: 100xOdds

and why did the night king have to touch the dragon to revive?
he didn't need to do that to other undead in the past.

the only other time we've seen him touch someone is a baby.
hm.. maybe he touched uncle Benje and turned him into a wight that can think for himself?

maybe Viserion can still think for himself?

I also want to make sure you know the difference.... He (night king) only has to raise his hands in the air to create white walkers (the dead army peons and majority of the group) from dead people. That's what he did with all of the dead nights watchman and wildling people on the battlefield last season. If he wants to create a Wight (blue eyed badass dead guy or seemingly dragon) he touches them. Like he did with the caster baby and Viserion. The main difference between them (now that we learned more last episode) is how you have to kill them. White walkers are just skeletons and zombies basically, which seem to die from fire, I guess from being totally destroyed, and now we know that if you kill the Wight that turned them into walkers they die instantly. That said, it seems that the only way to kill Wights is to stab them with dragon glass or Valyrian Steel and they shatter into ice crystals (Sam used the dragon glass dagger and John used his Valyrian steel sword). Fire doesn't seem to effect the Wights based on the night king walking straight through the fire last episode (and I think he also might have when he was chasing Bran through the three eyed ravens tree house, unless of course he's Rhaegar). I believe that was the point of the whole book that taught Sam where the dragon glass was in Dragonstone.

Does the dead dragon shoot fire or is he now a legendary Ice Dragon?

Quote: billryan

Does the dead dragon shoot fire or is he now a legendary Ice Dragon?

I've been thinking ice.... But if it's fire, he's melting the wall....

Better question -- Who the f*** is A.D.??!!!

The storyline for this whole season leaked on Reddit months and months ago.

Big spoiler for this weekend's finale:

And now we wait two years for the final 6 episodes...

well yesterday was a bit of a mixed bag. On the negative side, I lost $150 playing craps. On the plus I won a beer from billryan. Add in seeing Little Finger get snuffed by the Stark girls and I'll call it a reasonable day.

Let me know when you are in town.
A Lannister hater always pays his debts.

It will probably be a while before I'm out Westeros way so there will be ample time for you to win back that beer. How you feeling on who will finally kill Cersei? I'm thinking the front runners are Ariya (most likely IMHO), Jaime, or Tyrion. Care to go double or nothing?